Sadly, they ALL lie. OR: Call twice, pay once.

[DelsFan]

From another thread:

...This was important because DirecTV does not transmit HD local channels in my area yet. I ordered an antenna on-line and it arrived yesterday. I connected it then called DirecTV for assistance. [Oh!], the OTA option is not available on the new HD-DVR unit. DirecTV lied! They told me it would and even sold me an antenna to use it with…LIARS!! Why would they offer to install an OTA antenna if it wouldn't even work? I think it was just to get me signed with the hopes of me keeping their service anyway.

Firstly:

(In my title) who are "they"? My experience is, anyone in the electronics sales or service industry qualifies. Computer sales, cable TV and satellite, and cell phone companies top my list. Yes, some "lies" might be due to incompetance, some to poor training. And some, because the person you are talking to might be graded or paid on how much he sells you and there is little repercusion for returned equipment or dissatisfied customers. Regardless, I'd hold the company responsible. ONLY:

The problem is, they all do it. Dir*TV makes you mad and you go to Dis*. Big whoop, Dis* made someone else mad the week before and they swapped to Dir*TV. No net loss for either company, no punishment for the "crime". And, in some cases, we all feel like a crime has been committed. Cell phone companies? Does a single cell phone company have a satisfaction rating above 40%? 30%? As long as they all offer bad service (and as long as we "need" cell phones), there is no downside for lying to customers, or cheating them. Lots of people switch cell phone co's, but the net gain or loss washes out and there is no downside to any of them for incompetance, inefficiency, or downright theft.

My three SHORT stories:

- CALL TWICE, pay once (still get screwed): I ordered a Del* laptop four years ago, and thought the wireless (the old 802.11(a) system) function would be cool. My wife and I lived where only dial-up was available and I was told by two different people I could go from the dial-up modem to the wireless transmitter to the computer (no ethernet required). I purchased everything and of course, had trouble figuring out how to make the wireless system work. After ANOTHER hour with tech support I was told that of course the wireless transmitter would only work with an (unavailable at the time) ethernet modem. I don't know that much about computers now and knew next to nothing then; I trusted the sales people (stupid, I know, and I haven't believed one since) to tell me the truth and thought I even asked the right questions... Oh, I said this would be short. Sorry.

- CALL TWICE, pay once. Last year I called to see about getting a second cell phone for my Mother, for emergencies, to add onto my service. I was told it would be $10/month more and no new contract would be required. I talked to my mother about it and called back the next day to do it - reconfirming the deal revealed it was really an extra $20/month and I WOULD need to sign a new two year contract. No penalty for my cell co. though; I didn't activate the second line - but didn't cancel my service either (too much trouble, and the next company will be just as bad, IMO.

- CALL TWICE, pay once. Just last month I made my yearly call to my Cable Co., Chart*, as I was (again) getting tired of sitting on the HD sidelines in my small town (lots of options, and better service, by a very small margin probably, if one lives in the "big city"). I was told that, hallelujah!, digital cable now meant that 100% of the channels I was to receive were digitally encoded, not 30% (for all time, previously, as everyone knows, channels over 100 were digital, but 2-99 were crappy analog ("Digital" cable is what it should have been called)). Plus, I could now get 11 HD channels! [Five locals, TNT, ESPN, HD Net, HD Net Movies, Discovery HD, and one more.] And a HD-DVR recorder! All for $54.76/month. I said to myself, "Self, now is a quite reasonable time to drop $3,000 on a television." [Not to mention, that I really "need" the 60" Sony XBR2 set (not the 50" XBR1, too small !) that is closer to $4,500 with taxes, not even including $250 min. more for HDMI cables and an upconverting DVD player!]

The next day I called (not, fortunately, to order my new Sony XBR1) Chart* again to confirm, and order my new service!
- Are Channels 2-99 digital, as promised (and, I'm told, as is really quite necessary with a 1080p set)? Nope; they are still ANALOG.
- Can I get 11 HD channels? Nope; TNT, HD Net, HD Net Movies, and the other channel that I cannot remember are not yet available - but (of course!) they should be soon.
- Can I get this service for $54 and change? Nope, around $63 for six months and then $72/month.

Am I still on the HD bandwagon? Yes. [HD is great, and upconverted DVD's are supposed to be pretty darn good too, though not as good as Blue-Ray...)
What will I do for signal? I'm told that analog cannot be tolerated on an HD television, so I guess I'll add a satellite service so I can have a digital signal for the HD set for the channels I watch the most. But, I'll need to keep the Chart* service ($46/month) for the other two rooms as the set top box would be quite inconvenient to locate, not to mention that Chart* gives me locals from two major cities, that offer different programming and sports from the same network.(hmmm. for $46/mo I might have to reconsider...). SO, I'll pay a little over $100/month for service and the economy keeps rolling (?), as incompetance and lying goes unpunished.

How can this go on? If everyone is like I am, I'm to busy, tired, worn down, and jaded to expect anything but to be lied to - and don't think I have an option to send my hard-earned $$ to reward a competant company - because I don't think one exists.

I tried to be economical with my descriptions, and I'm sorry to go on,
is anyone else less discouraged or more hopeful than I am?

[drock912001]

Man seems like you got a lot on your chest.I hope you got it off.But when we are first to adopt a new technology we have to pay the price.J6P gets it cheap because most of the bugs are worked out and there's something better on the horizon.You gotta take the good with the bad.I've been with directv over 9 years and have no intentions on switching as long as I reside in Ohio.Long story

[Jimbos]

Originally Posted by DelsFan

From another thread:

...This was important because DirecTV does not transmit HD local channels in my area yet. I ordered an antenna on-line and it arrived yesterday. I connected it then called DirecTV for assistance. [Oh!], the OTA option is not available on the new HD-DVR unit. DirecTV lied! They told me it would and even sold me an antenna to use it with…LIARS!! Why would they offer to install an OTA antenna if it wouldn't even work? I think it was just to get me signed with the hopes of me keeping their service anyway.

Firstly:

(In my title) who are "they"? My experience is, anyone in the electronics sales or service industry qualifies. Computer sales, cable TV and satellite, and cell phone companies top my list. Yes, some "lies" might be due to incompetance, some to poor training. And some, because the person you are talking to might be graded or paid on how much he sells you and there is little repercusion for returned equipment or dissatisfied customers. Regardless, I'd hold the company responsible. ONLY:

The problem is, they all do it. Dir*TV makes you mad and you go to Dis*. Big whoop, Dis* made someone else mad the week before and they swapped to Dir*TV. No net loss for either company, no punishment for the "crime". And, in some cases, we all feel like a crime has been committed. Cell phone companies? Does a single cell phone company have a satisfaction rating above 40%? 30%? As long as they all offer bad service (and as long as we "need" cell phones), there is no downside for lying to customers, or cheating them. Lots of people switch cell phone co's, but the net gain or loss washes out and there is no downside to any of them for incompetance, inefficiency, or downright theft.

My three SHORT stories:

- CALL TWICE, pay once (still get screwed): I ordered a Del* laptop four years ago, and thought the wireless (the old 802.11(a) system) function would be cool. My wife and I lived where only dial-up was available and I was told by two different people I could go from the dial-up modem to the wireless transmitter to the computer (no ethernet required). I purchased everything and of course, had trouble figuring out how to make the wireless system work. After ANOTHER hour with tech support I was told that of course the wireless transmitter would only work with an (unavailable at the time) ethernet modem. I don't know that much about computers now and knew next to nothing then; I trusted the sales people (stupid, I know, and I haven't believed one since) to tell me the truth and thought I even asked the right questions... Oh, I said this would be short. Sorry.

- CALL TWICE, pay once. Last year I called to see about getting a second cell phone for my Mother, for emergencies, to add onto my service. I was told it would be $10/month more and no new contract would be required. I talked to my mother about it and called back the next day to do it - reconfirming the deal revealed it was really an extra $20/month and I WOULD need to sign a new two year contract. No penalty for my cell co. though; I didn't activate the second line - but didn't cancel my service either (too much trouble, and the next company will be just as bad, IMO.

- CALL TWICE, pay once. Just last month I made my yearly call to my Cable Co., Chart*, as I was (again) getting tired of sitting on the HD sidelines in my small town (lots of options, and better service, by a very small margin probably, if one lives in the "big city"). I was told that, hallelujah!, digital cable now meant that 100% of the channels I was to receive were digitally encoded, not 30% (for all time, previously, as everyone knows, channels over 100 were digital, but 2-99 were crappy analog ("Digital" cable is what it should have been called)). Plus, I could now get 11 HD channels! [Five locals, TNT, ESPN, HD Net, HD Net Movies, Discovery HD, and one more.] And a HD-DVR recorder! All for $54.76/month. I said to myself, "Self, now is a quite reasonable time to drop $3,000 on a television." [Not to mention, that I really "need" the 60" Sony XBR2 set (not the 50" XBR1, too small !) that is closer to $4,500 with taxes, not even including $250 min. more for HDMI cables and an upconverting DVD player!]

The next day I called (not, fortunately, to order my new Sony XBR1) Chart* again to confirm, and order my new service!
- Are Channels 2-99 digital, as promised (and, I'm told, as is really quite necessary with a 1080p set)? Nope; they are still ANALOG.
- Can I get 11 HD channels? Nope; TNT, HD Net, HD Net Movies, and the other channel that I cannot remember are not yet available - but (of course!) they should be soon.
- Can I get this service for $54 and change? Nope, around $63 for six months and then $72/month.

Am I still on the HD bandwagon? Yes. [HD is great, and upconverted DVD's are supposed to be pretty darn good too, though not as good as Blue-Ray...)
What will I do for signal? I'm told that analog cannot be tolerated on an HD television, so I guess I'll add a satellite service so I can have a digital signal for the HD set for the channels I watch the most. But, I'll need to keep the Chart* service ($46/month) for the other two rooms as the set top box would be quite inconvenient to locate, not to mention that Chart* gives me locals from two major cities, that offer different programming and sports from the same network.(hmmm. for $46/mo I might have to reconsider...). SO, I'll pay a little over $100/month for service and the economy keeps rolling (?), as incompetance and lying goes unpunished.

How can this go on? If everyone is like I am, I'm to busy, tired, worn down, and jaded to expect anything but to be lied to - and don't think I have an option to send my hard-earned $$ to reward a competant company - because I don't think one exists.

I tried to be economical with my descriptions, and I'm sorry to go on,
is anyone else less discouraged or more hopeful than I am?

IF you would have scanned the threads you would have known all along that the OTA tuner was not active yet, I don't blame D* for this, they got the unit out so we can use it and will update so the OTA tuner will be active soon.
You did not have to buy it, they did not force you to buy anything ...
Did they not tell you the OTA tuner was not on ??? NO they did not tell you that, but you also didn't ask.

EVERYONE on these boards know that the tuners are not on yet and know they will be on soon, many go ahead and buy anyways, that is the individuals choice...
Don't bitch because you can't read.

Jimbo

[DelsFan]

From another thread:

"...This was important because DirecTV does not transmit HD local channels in my area yet. I ordered an antenna on-line and it arrived yesterday. I connected it then called DirecTV for assistance. [Oh!], the OTA option is not available on the new HD-DVR unit. DirecTV lied! They told me it would and even sold me an antenna to use it with…LIARS!! Why would they offer to install an OTA antenna if it wouldn't even work? I think it was just to get me signed with the hopes of me keeping their service anyway."

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.
I was responding to another person's post, quoted above, from another thread.

I do stand by my call twice before you sign up theory; I've been told wrong the first time more often than not when asking (simple enough) questions. The three short (?) stories were examples of my recent experiences.




EVERYONE on these boards know that the tuners are not on yet

Agreed, but a miniscule percentage of people read these boards; the regular public gets screwed. Some of us come here first becuase we know we will be lied to at the store or over the phone. Because savvy buyers know that sales people are mostly uninformed and untrained. Because most anyone you talk to at any box store or on the phone with a service provider knows less than we already learned, before going to the store, with five minutes research on the internet. Because we know sales people will tell us anything, apparently because most customers are clueless to know the difference...

Now, many customers must be really stupid though - I can't tell you the times I've looked at every product (down filled comforter, tv, whatever) in a store, hunted down a salesperson, and asked them a question, only to have them go the the box or package and have them start reading to me off the package (that I already read). I assume they do this becuase they don't know one thing about the product, but also because most customers must not be able to read and/or comprehend anything in print for themselves.

Like everything else though, I guess there are two sides to this story too - if you talk to a salesman I expect he'll tell you the maximum comprehension threshold of the average customer is pretty pathetic... In an electronics store, I guess part of the training should be what to do on the rare occassion you have the opportunity to sell something to someone with a clue...

[Jimbos]

Originally Posted by DelsFan

EVERYONE on these boards know that the tuners are not on yet

Agreed, but a miniscule percentage of people read these boards; the regular public gets screwed. Some of us come here first becuase we know we will be lied to at the store or over the phone. Because savvy buyers know that sales people are mostly uninformed and untrained. Because most anyone you talk to at any box store or on the phone with a service provider knows less than we already learned, before going to the store, with five minutes research on the internet. Because we know sales people will tell us anything, apparently because most customers are clueless to know the difference...

Now, many customers must be really stupid though - I can't tell you the times I've looked at every product (down filled comforter, tv, whatever) in a store, hunted down a salesperson, and asked them a question, only to have them go the the box or package and have them start reading to me off the package (that I already read). I assume they do this becuase they don't know one thing about the product, but also because most customers must not be able to read and/or comprehend anything in print for themselves.

Like everything else though, I guess there are two sides to this story too - if you talk to a salesman I expect he'll tell you the maximum comprehension threshold of the average customer is pretty pathetic... In an electronics store, I guess part of the training should be what to do on the rare occassion you have the opportunity to sell something to someone with a clue...

I agree with everything you've mentioned here, it's really nice when you go into a store and find someone that DOES know what your talking about.

Jimbo

[stchman]

Originally Posted by Jimbos

IF you would have scanned the threads you would have known all along that the OTA tuner was not active yet, I don't blame D* for this, they got the unit out so we can use it and will update so the OTA tuner will be active soon.
You did not have to buy it, they did not force you to buy anything ...
Did they not tell you the OTA tuner was not on ??? NO they did not tell you that, but you also didn't ask.

EVERYONE on these boards know that the tuners are not on yet and know they will be on soon, many go ahead and buy anyways, that is the individuals choice...
Don't bitch because you can't read.

Jimbo

Why would DTV integrate an ATSC tuner into their new DVR and then have it disabled?????!!! That makes ZERO sense. The guy was asking why did DTV try to sell him an antenna for OTA HD locals if the DVR has the ATSC tuner disabled. Would not DTV have egg on its face if the guy would have said sure I'll take the antenna? That is like a car dealer selling you a pickup bed liner for your Saturn ION. Would not work. I would be curious as to the logic of having the ATSC tuner disabled.

[stevesdigi]

Originally Posted by Jimbos

IF you would have scanned the threads you would have known all along that the OTA tuner was not active yet, I don't blame D* for this, they got the unit out so we can use it and will update so the OTA tuner will be active soon.
Jimbo

I can't wait to see how many software updates it will take to make the OTA tuners work right Just look how many updates we've already been thru and it still doesn't work as a decent DVR yet!

[Machpelah]

Originally Posted by stchman

Why would DTV integrate an ATSC tuner into their new DVR and then have it disabled?????!!! That makes ZERO sense. The guy was asking why did DTV try to sell him an antenna for OTA HD locals if the DVR has the ATSC tuner disabled. Would not DTV have egg on its face if the guy would have said sure I'll take the antenna? That is like a car dealer selling you a pickup bed liner for your Saturn ION. Would not work. I would be curious as to the logic of having the ATSC tuner disabled.

Two reasons come to mind:

1. The ATSC software is buggy, and they disabled the tuner, so they could push the DVR through manufacture (risky move, if so).

2. DTv wants to push you into purchasing the HDTV locals package. Hard sell, when the tuner is onboard the DVR.

Both are just guesses, for what it is worth, but still interesting to guess.

[Jimbos]

Originally Posted by stchman

Why would DTV integrate an ATSC tuner into their new DVR and then have it disabled?????!!! That makes ZERO sense. The guy was asking why did DTV try to sell him an antenna for OTA HD locals if the DVR has the ATSC tuner disabled. Would not DTV have egg on its face if the guy would have said sure I'll take the antenna? That is like a car dealer selling you a pickup bed liner for your Saturn ION. Would not work. I would be curious as to the logic of having the ATSC tuner disabled.

stchman,
DO you really think that the OTA tuner will not be turned on ???????

Only a dish lover and D* basher would think that.

[Jimbos]

Originally Posted by stevesdigi

I can't wait to see how many software updates it will take to make the OTA tuners work right Just look how many updates we've already been thru and it still doesn't work as a decent DVR yet!

MY DVR works great ....
I would imagine you will not have the issues with theOTA tuner when it gets turned on, as they are obviously working on the issues BEFORE they turn it on.
I do hope it happens soon though.

Jimbo

[Jimbos]

Originally Posted by Machpelah

Two reasons come to mind:

1. The ATSC software is buggy, and they disabled the tuner, so they could push the DVR through manufacture (risky move, if so).

2. DTv wants to push you into purchasing the HDTV locals package. Hard sell, when the tuner is onboard the DVR.

Both are just guesses, for what it is worth, but still interesting to guess.

I thought about both those issues when I first found out about it,
perticularly # 2, seeing they would profit with the locals vs OTA subs.

[mluntz]

If you have an OTA antenna, you are not at D*'s mercy, unless you want your local RSN in HD. I refuse to buy any more equipment until it works right, and does everything it is supposed to do.

I'm not bashing anyone here, but I think sometimes people buy the "latest and greatest" just to say they have it. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

My HR10-250 works fine, right now, that's good enough for me.

[stchman]

Originally Posted by Jimbos

stchman,
DO you really think that the OTA tuner will not be turned on ???????

Only a dish lover and D* basher would think that.

As of right now it is not. What if the guy would have said "yes, I will take the antenna". DTV would have charged him $49 to install and hook it up, but he could not get HD locals. Sounds kind of silly to me. Not bashing, just a factual observation.

[stchman]

Originally Posted by Machpelah

Two reasons come to mind:

1. The ATSC software is buggy, and they disabled the tuner, so they could push the DVR through manufacture (risky move, if so).

2. DTv wants to push you into purchasing the HDTV locals package. Hard sell, when the tuner is onboard the DVR.

Both are just guesses, for what it is worth, but still interesting to guess.

Buggy, their previous HD boxes had built in ATSC tuners that worked.

You mean DTV charges EXTRA for HD locals???!!!!!! DISH, you pay the $5 and that is it. You get both HD(if available and proper equip) and SD locals. If DISH does not have HD locals in your area then you can erect an antenna and get them.

[hitdog042]

Originally Posted by stchman

Buggy, their previous HD boxes had built in ATSC tuners that worked.

You mean DTV charges EXTRA for HD locals???!!!!!! DISH, you pay the $5 and that is it. You get both HD(if available and proper equip) and SD locals. If DISH does not have HD locals in your area then you can erect an antenna and get them.

DTV does not charge extra for HD locals. If you sub to local service, HD locals are included at no charge if available in your area.

OTA will be turned on, it's even on DTV's website. By the end of the year.

Nobody releases stuff w/out bugs. It's unfortunate, but it will be fixed.