OTA HD channels. I give up. I admit I'm an ignorant noob! Long rambling 1st post!

[Mathcop]

I discovered this wonderful forum about two weeks ago. I've tried researching and reading and learning as much as I can on my own before asking for help. Really I have. I think I have learned much more than I knew before I started but now I'm stumped and I need help.

I recently bought a 30" Widescreen Philips HDTV, Model# 30PW9100D/37B as seen here: My new TV

This is my first ever HD set so this is all new to me. I've been with D* for about 2 or 3 years now. I have a Hughes Director Pack D* receiver (model# HBH-SA). I also have a Sanyo DVW-6000 VCR/DVD combo unit very similar to this one: My DVD/VCR

I have always had my D* cable come from the wall to my D* receiver, then a coax cable connects from my D* receiver to my VCR/DVD player, and then another coax cable connects from my VCR/DVD player to my TV. I don't know if this setup is the best or not, but is has always worked.

I hooked up the new Philips set the same way when I got it a couple of weeks ago, mostly because I don't know anything else. It works fine for what I have so far, the VCR/DVD and SD D*. As I said earlier, I figured I would do some research and learning before I attempted anything else, if indeed anything would be better.

As I waited for my new HDTV to arrive and I prepared to make the move to HDTV, I called D* to find out that I could not get local HD channels through them. Before that call, I ignorantly believed that if I ordered the D* HD receiver, then I would automatically get HD programming through that receiver and it would be displayed on my new HDTV. Once that myth was busted, I declined ordering the D* HD receiver. Besides, it's not worth $10.99/month to me to receive 5 or 6 "specialty" HD channels from D*, even if one of them is ESPN!

Then I discovered this forum. It has helped alot in my understanding. After reading as many threads as I could find on these boards ref OTA HDTV signals and visiting antennaweb.org, I decided I needed to get an antenna and I was determined to do this in time to see the Super Bowl in HD this coming Sunday.

On Saturday, I went to Sears to look for a Silver Sensor antenna, based on some reccomondations I saw here. My local Sears did not have one. I then went to Radio Shack, following another suggestion I saw on these boards. I told the young man at RS what I needed and he sold me a Radio Shack Amplified HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Antenna, model# (or item#) 15-2186 for $50. He also sold me a signal splitter/combiner to be able to hook up both the D* and the HDTV antenna to the TV. I left there excited about my upcoming HDTV experience.

On Sunday afternoon I hooked up this antenna directly to my TV. I disconnected the cable that was there (from my VCR/DVD, from the D* receiver) and connected this antenna directly. I wanted to be sure I had this thing working before I tried connecting both antenna sources (D* and HDTV antenna) through a combiner and dealing with making that work. After assembling and connecting the antenna, I had my new TV scan for channels and no matter where I placed the antenna, I got zero HD. Nothing, nada, zip. I did get a few (not all) of my SD local channels, although only one of them was anywhere near clear enough to be watchable and it wasn't great.

I tried having the TV scan in both Cable and Antenna modes, I tried moving the antenna around the room, I tried every combination I could think of. Nothing worked. I never, not once, received any hint of any HD channel. As I said, I had visited antennaweb.org. I printed out a list of the channels I SHOULD be getting. I got nothing.

Sorry for rambling for soooo long here, but I felt it was inportant for those of you who can help me to know as much as possible about my setup and what I've tried so far. Now for my questions.

First of all, do I have things hooked up the best way possible? Should I be concerned with HDMI conections or HD CVI, CVI, AV1, AV2, etc.?

Secondly, and more importantly, did I do anything wrong in the HDTV antenna set up? Should I be able to receive OTA HDTV with that antenna and setup? I am NOT mecanically inclined and I do not want to deal with installing an outside antenna. At this point, I don't have any confidence it would work anyway, since the indoor one was so extremely unsucessful. I live in Zip Code 32763, the Daytona Beach / Orlando local market. According to antennaweb, all but one of my HDTV channels are about 30 miles away in the same direction and broadcast on UHF. Only one of them broadcasts on VHF (channel 11).

Thirdly, any word on if/when D* will offer HD locals in my area? After my failed attempts on Sunday, my wife says to just keep everything the same as we have now. When D* offers HD locals, THEN we can get the HD D* receiver and upgrade to HDTV.

Finally, do I have any hope of watching the Super Bowl in HD this Sunday?

I have the Radio Shack HDTV antenna boxed back up and ready to be returned to RS after work today. Should I return it or keep it? It's fate is up to you, fellow board members. LOL.

I appreciate any assistance I can get on these issues.

[knothead]

1st off you need an hd rec unless one is built into your tv or you have a D* hd tivo. If you dont have the latter and one isnt in your tv you have to buy one. If you are within a few miles of the tv station towers a silver sensor may work. Go to amazon.com they have it. You may have to get a full sized antenna. Go to antennaweb.com or org (?)
Wait till D* comes out with more hd You can split your cables off of a hd rec but not off D* rec or their cables.

[couchnit]

It doesn't look like your TV has a built-in ATSC (digital broadcast) tuner, so you'll need an HD-capable D*receiver in the loop to receive these OTA signals and pick up your HD locals (need receiver model H10, H20, or HR10250). That's why your test failed when connecting an antenna feed directly to the set. You were actually only searching for analog broadcast signals.

I'd consider a professional install. If you're only 30 miles away from transmission, you'll be able to make this all work.

[mwkbear]

It seems like your TV does have a built-in ATSC tuner, and so you should be able to get OTA digital broadcasts. I think your problem is that you don't have your antenna connected correctly.

It isn't clear to me, from the diagram of your TV's inputs, where you need to plug in your antenna to access the Digital tuner. I have a feeling you have it plugged in for the NTSC tuner instead. When I first had my TV, I did the same thing. I plugged the antenna into the "ant" port, and wondered why I couldn't pickup any digital channels.

Check the owners manual to see where you should plug in the antenna, and if you still have a question, best to call Phillips tech support and let them guide you.

[Mathcop]

Knothead and Couchnit, thanks for the replies, but my set clearly DOES have a built in ATSC HDTV tuner so that is not the problem.

Mwkbear, I thought the same thing. It did seem as if I was only searching for analog channels. Certainly, I only got analog results! However, the cable from the antenna is coaxial and there is only one coax connection on the back of the set. According to the owner's manual, that is the area for HD conncetions (the left most section of the "View Connections" picture on the link to my TV above) so it seems like I did have it hooked up correctly.

As I have already admitted, I am an ignorant noob and I could be completely 100% wrong!

[AirCav]

You may be limited to one Over the Air (OTA) signal. You can plug your external antenna into the Cable/Antenna input (top left) on the diagram from the Phillips website.

You can attach a cable/sat box to the HDMI input or the Y Pb Pr input. How your TV finds the OTA signal is somewhere in the manual. If that doesn't work, try the Phillips helpdesk and have them walk you htrough it.

You need a BNC connector from your antenna and you should not need an amplified antenna. You should receive at least something at 30 miles, but perhaps not all stations. 30 miles is not necessarily close as we do not know about obstructions, etc

[couchnit]

Originally Posted by Mathcop

Knothead and Couchnit, thanks for the replies, but my set clearly DOES have a built in ATSC HDTV tuner so that is not the problem.

Mwkbear, I thought the same thing. It did seem as if I was only searching for analog channels. Certainly, I only got analog results! However, the cable from the antenna is coaxial and there is only one coax connection on the back of the set. According to the owner's manual, that is the area for HD conncetions (the left most section of the "View Connections" picture on the link to my TV above) so it seems like I did have it hooked up correctly.

you're right, it does have the digital tuner... Maybe you're just not getting the signal strength you need w/ an indoor? I assume you were testing with the antenna indoors only, right? First time I tried receiving OTA digital signals, I had an antenna in my attic, and only picked up one or two (and I'm closer to my transmitters than you). Once I went to a rooftop, everything was good. Just a thought.

[Mathcop]

What is a BNC connector?

[Mathcop]

Originally Posted by couchnit

I assume you were testing with the antenna indoors only, right?

Once I went to a rooftop, everything was good. Just a thought.

Yes, I only tested indoors as I really did not want to deal with outdoor installation. I am afraid you may be right about the rooftop. Darn the luck! LOL

[AirCav]

Originally Posted by Mathcop

What is a BNC connector?

Hopefully the connector you have on the end of your satellite cable. Some antenans will only have a couple of wires on them. You will have to attach your antenna lead to the Cable/Antenna connector of your Phillips by screwing in the cable. Your antenna should have a black, coaxial cable running from it. You hook that up to your TV. I make this disctinction because on some acessory antennas they will have two wires running from them and you are expected to come up with binding posts or a converter to use.

[Mathcop]

The only cable/wires that came with the antenna is a black coaxial cable, about 10 feet long or so. I screwed one end of that into the antenna and one end into the back of the TV.

[hdtv4me2]

Originally Posted by Mathcop

Yes, I only tested indoors as I really did not want to deal with outdoor installation. I am afraid you may be right about the rooftop. Darn the luck! LOL

He is absolutely right. Your transmit towers are ~30 miles away. You need at least a medium gain UHF antenna mounted outdoors as high as you can. A CM 4221 should do the trick but for ~$20 more I'd go with the CM 4228.

[Mathcop]

Okay. I think I've learned enough to know that CM referrs to Channel Master, is that correct?

Where would I find these marvels of modern science? What's the best place to buy these antennas and what's the price of the two models reccomended here?

[purgasoj]

Mathcop
ive been a long time lurker here, but saw you could use some help. Solid signal.com has these antennas in stock. I live near DC about 35 miles from HD stations in my area. I use this antenna- the CM 3021:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=ANC3021

With a pre-amplifier that easily attaches to the antenna pole:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...PROD=CM0068DSB

I just attached this antenna to an antenna pole: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=MT1805

Total cost of all of this is about $100- all pretty easy to install yourself. I just attached mine to my deck with some brackets I got from Lowes. If you have a lowes near you, they also carry antennas, the pre-amplifier, and poles. You may want to check there first. If not- order rush delivery to get it for the super bowl. Good luck
Jeff

[usama_ah]

Is there anyway you can get a picture of the back of your TV on the internet? I've been searching but haven't been able to find a real picture, I got this picture from Amazon's website which seems to show the connections on the back of your TV.

Now since you say you're new at this I'm going to assume some things but I don't mean to offend you. You say you plugged the TV to the back of your TV -- normally these TVs have an ATSC and an NTSC tuner, so it is imperative that you plugged the antenna into your ATSC tuner. (I'll get back to that in a minute) Furthermore although an expensive antenna might be necessary in your case, any antenna will do it doesn't have to be an HDTV antenna so you don't have to make sure it says "HDTV" on it. Since you're kind of far I can see why everyone recommends a Channel Master.

Now looking at the connections displayed on Amazon it seems there's no distinction made between NTSC and ATSC. I am sure this is the reason why you aren't getting any HDTV signals AT ALL .. it's not your fault, there must be some trick to "activating" the ATSC tuner on your TV.

I then went to Philips website and found the manuals.

The manual states on pg. 4 (PDF version) that the TV, when it's first turned on, is in digital mode -- Pressing the A/D switch can toggle it between the analog and digital mode.

When you go to program (add) channels, if you search while in analog mode it will only add analog channels. If you search while in digital mode it'll add both digital and analog channels. page 9 (again in the PDF version) shows how to make sure you're testing in digital mode. Actually this page shows both digital and analog versions of adding channels. The problem is that there is virtually no difference between the two except for one menu item -- the digital version of adding channels has a "weak dig sig" section whereas the analog version of adding channels does not.

So perhaps it's in analog mode right now and pressing that A/D switch will put it in digital mode. (Perhaps someone switched it analog by accident a long time ago?) Then you can go and search for channels with that antenna? If you've already returned it, try it with any antenna you have on hand before you make the trek back to Radio Shack.

To answer your other questions (or some of them) -- since your TV does have a built-in ATSC tuner you don't need to mess with the HDMI or Component inputs at all -- all you need to do is plug in an antenna and receive OTA digital signals. If you have a progressive scan DVD player or if you ever get satellite w/ an HD package -- both cna be connected via Component to get better quality pictures (in the case of satellite, HD, in the case of the DVD player, progressive scan). The HDMI is for HD satellite receivers or in the near future Blu-Ray or HD-DVD players.

I really hope this has been helpful and that I haven't wasted your time.