OTA HD channels. I give up. I admit I'm an ignorant noob! Long rambling 1st post!

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by leww37334

from the standpoint of your problem not being able to watch D*, get some standard RCA jack cables (available at walmart), look at the back of your TV find a set of three jacks probably called video 1, it will probably be a yellow jack, a red jack and a white jack, yellow is video, red and white are audio. Hook these cables to the yellow, red and white jacks on the back of your D* receiver. This will allow you to watch D* on video 1. you should have an "input" button on your TV remote that let's you switch to video 1. This "input button" cycles through your different input connections.

Looks like on your set, the jacks are called AV1, you could also plug the cables into the AV2 jacks

[Mathcop]

I have to keep thanking all of you for the great help and advice I am receiving in this thread. You guys are great.

usama - EXCELLENT post about the various connection methods I can use. I have a Hughes Director Pack D* receiver (model# HBH-SA). I'll check tonight when I get home whether or not it has the OTA Antenna input and decide to use either option 1 or option 3 for now, at least through Sunday. I don't think the receiver has one so I'll probably go with #3, but I'll verify this tonight. Eventually, I will convert to method #2 but let me get through the Super Bowl first! We have this set in an entertainment center (it barely fits in the hole) and this set is so heavy, I don't want to be moving it too many times. I just don't think I can get all of the cables purchased and work done that I need to for #2 to work before Sunday so I'll go with #3 (or #1) for now and convert later.

Tomorrow, I'll head to Best Buy & Circuit City (across the street from each other in Sanford, FL which are the closest ones to me) in search of the elusive Silver Sensor antenna as Diogenes suggested. Then I'll try all of this again .... in digital mode this time (gosh, I feel stupid for scanning for digital channels in analog mode - DUH!). I'll report back with results either way. I'll try to have this done by early afternoon tomorrow so I can report back here and still have time to get more help if necessary.

Any suggestions on other indoor antenna possibilities in case I can't find the Silver Sensor in either store? If only I could take you guys to the store with me tomorrow, that would be wonderful! Oh well, wish me luck everybody!

I mentioned in an earlier post that I owed it to myself to try this again. I've thought about it and I feel like I owe it to all of you who have offered assistance/guidance/advice to try this again. I was ready to throw in the towel, take my wife's advice, and wait for D* to get HD locals. I don't want to get too sappy here, this is a Macho High Def Forum after all, but you have convinced me this can work and inspired me to try again. I appreciate it.

[Diogenes]

Mathcop, all Orlando channels are in the UHF range, get a good UHF antenna. Florida is pretty flat and it looks like you are about 20 miles from orlando, plus most Orlando stations are at 1000 Kw ERP, so it should work. By the way the silver sensor is also called the Zenith ZHDTV1

The TERK HDTVA is a silver sensor clone
it is available at best buy and offers 11-12 dB of gain, it's a lot more expensive than a silver sensor, but you really don't have time to try to get a silver sensor from the internet.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1118844608800

[Mathcop]

According to antennaweb.org, my local NBC affiliate (WESH) is broadcasting digitally on frequency 11. That's VHF right? Are any of these antennas going to pick that one up?

Also, I'm 28-32 miles from most of the local digital stations. ABC (WFTV), the one I need for Sunday, is 31.5 miles from me.

[Diogenes]

OK I am getting really confused now, the FCC website says WESH is located in Daytona Beach it also says they are broadcasting at a puny 54 kW. A CM 4228 will reach down into the high VHF range and probably pick up channel 11, but it is so weak that you will probably need a preamp. (The terk indoor claims it will reach down into the VHF, click on the best buy link in my previous post or go to www.bestbuy.com and search for terk indoor antenna). But again to pick up WESH you are almost certainly going to need an outdoor antenna.

I am really not sure where you are, Orlando looks to be much closer to Sanford than Daytona Beach. What did

http://www.antennaweb.org

tell you?

If you go to an oudoor antenna, then the higher up, the better BUT you may be able to put a CM 4 bay or 8 bay antenna on a 10 foot pole from Lowe's. Since all those outdoor antennas are directional, you will not be able to pick up both Daytona Beach and Orlando without turning the antenna. Let's go back to what the Radio Shack guy told you. Did he know where you live? Did he say you could pick up your locals with the amplified indoor UHF antenna? If he did, we can try the indoor antenna. If not we need to go outdoors.

[usama_ah]

Mathcop

i'm glad you'll try again. first about your receiver, then about antennas.

Your receiver, an HBH-SA, has a manual up here and on page 10 the diagram shows that you DO have a separate input for an antenna. (1) is the cable coming in from the dish, (2) is going out to the TV, and (3) on that diagram is the input for your indoor (or outdoor) antenna. Sweet! You don't need to worry about setup#3, and when you went to Radioshack you did not have to purchase any splitter/combiner so make sure no one tries to sell you that.

BUT, I'm not sure sure that setup would work. I think that if you scan for channels while in digital mode with an antenna hooked up to your D* receiver, chances are you'll catch some stations. -- but I can't be sure of this. If it does not work you may have to disconnect the D* receiver and put the antenna straight into the TV, then scan for channels. Of course in this case you would probably reconnect the D* receiver so you can watch your regular TV until the Super Bowl. That's fine, and then later, I can tell you another connection scheme that you can use to get you through without much hassle until you have time to perform setup #2.

Next, on antennas.
You're correct, your NBC affiliate is broadcasting in VHF. I have a similar problem here (Chicago) where CBS still broadcasts in VHF so I purchased a VHF/UHF antenna (Terk TV-5). If you're interested in catching that station as well you'll need a VHF/UHF antenna. But a couple of notes:

1. all your stations are in one direction from your home EXCEPT Univision which I'm not sure you'd be interested in catching. -- this means you can get a directional antenna if you wanted to.
   
2. Although a Silver Sensor would be nice -- remember that you don't need an HDTV antenna, any antenna will do. So don't limit yourself to those that say HDTV on there. My guess is that HDTV antennas are somewhat designed better to capture the digital signals, but from what I understand both will work.
   
3. whichever antenna you get, it'd be good if it had an amplifier in it so you can boost your signal gain.

I like the antenna that Diogenes recommended -- it's expensive but it would get both VHF/UHF and it looks pretty. However I did a check on Best Buy's website with your zipcode and it's not available at the Sanford store (again, according to the website). The closest store which seems to have it in stock would be:
Altamonte Springs FL 597 W State Road 436, Altamonte Springs, FL 32714
I'm not sure how far or close that is from you.

A check at Circuit City's website shows 2 antennas you could buy, the Terk TV-5 (the one I own) and the Terk HDTVi .. the TV-5 is out of stock at Sanford. The HDTVi, according to their website, IS in stock. I caution you, call first if it's a long trip to Sanford, because Circuit City's website is not always correct. Plus, I can recommend the TV-5 but I have no clue how the HDTVi is.

If you have the time you should look through all the antennas offered at Best Buy and Circuit City and using your zipcode determine where you want to go and buy the antenna.

Or you could go back to that RadioShack and buy whichever antenna you bought before. This one is in stock at one near your home.

[Mathcop]

Diogenes - Thanks for all the great info. I posted my zip code in the first post. It's 32763. I live in Orange City. WESH is in Daytona Beach, but according to antennaweb.org, if you use my zip code and then look at the compas orientation and distance, WESH-DT is transmitting from a different place than WESH. It's the same compass orientation and distance as all the other HD locals, near Orlando. Sanford has nothing to do with any of this. It's a pretty small town, it just happens to have the nearest Best Buy & Circuit City stores. That's the only reason I mentioned Sanford.

usama - WOW! You've done alot of research for me and I truly appreciate it. However, I can't get to any of those links (receiver, antennas, stores) from here (work PC - sites are blocked) so I'll have to check them out at home later. I am VERY glad you have provided them for me though. It will save me alot of time later. Altamonte Springs would be the next closest town (in the same direction) with these stores, probably about 10 miles from the Sanford stores. I don't have a problem going to the Altamonte store if they have what I need.

As I said before, this TV is a monster beast and manuvering it in and out of the entertainment center is not an easy thing to do. If I have to disconnect the D* receiver and hook the antenna directly into the TV, I'll have to leave the TV sitting on an end table in front of the entertainment center until I'm ready to put it back in place permanently. Go ahead usama, if you have time, and give me the optimum connection scheme you mentioned. Should I go with option #2 from your earlier post, or do you have something else? I guess I should go ahead and try to get this all done at once and be done with moving the TV.

My oh my, this HD stuff really is much more work than it should be. I've seen LOTS of threads on this forum from noobs like me confused about all of this. This thread has become a good basic tutorial for us newbies. I hope others are getting something out of it too.

I'll look at all the links provided by you guys later. I'll post again from home later with my shopping choices. I'm definitely leaning towards either the Silver Sensor or the Terk clone that Diogenes mentioned, or the Terk TV-5 since usama has personal experience with it. I'll let you know.

[hdtv4me2]

It's extremely doubtful you will receive any digital OTA with the antennas you last mentioned. I really hope you do so that you can see SB XL in HD. I've seen it the last two years and it is spectacular. Good Luck!

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by hdtv4me2

It's extremely doubtful you will receive any digital OTA with the antennas you last mentioned. I really hope you do so that you can see SB XL in HD. I've seen it the last two years and it is spectacular. Good Luck!

I am pulling in my locals from 30+ miles away with a silver sensor, granted it takes good conditions. But it is possible.

I agree a CM 4228 would be the best bet. If I were Mathcop, I would probably get a 4228, and lay it against the side of the house and run a coax through the front door, just to be able to see the SuperBowl in HD, and then worry about putting it on a pole later.

[Mathcop]

Thanks for the encouraging words hdtv4me2.

Diogenes, if we're in similar conditions (30 miles away) and you are successfully using an indoor antenna, why are you suggesting I get the CM 4228 instead? Just curious? Will that work, just leaning it against the house? I thought it had to be up high in the air. Also remember I need the VHF to pick up the one channel.

If that will work, where can I purchase the CM 4228 locally? I obviously can't order it online and receive it in time now.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by Mathcop

Thanks for the encouraging words hdtv4me2.

Diogenes, if we're in similar conditions (30 miles away) and you are successfully using an indoor antenna, why are you suggesting I get the CM 4228 instead? Just curious? Will that work, just leaning it against the house? I thought it had to be up high in the air. Also remember I need the VHF to pick up the one channel.

If that will work, where can I purchase the CM 4228 locally? I obviously can't order it online and receive it in time now.

I bought my CM 4228 at Radio Shack, they may not have a CM 4228 at your RS, but they probably will have a 4 or 8 bay grid style antenna. Those are the antennas that have the little bow tie style wires mounted on what looks like a wire grid. I wouls call RS and and ask if they have a UHF outdoor grid antenna. I think the indoor will work for ABC, but since NBC is at 54 KW ERP(1000 Kw is a good signal power level). I think you will have real problems getting it with an indoor.

CM 4228 will go down into the VHF.

I believe just setting it up anywhere outside and pointing it in the right direction will work, it is definately not a permanent solution.

[Diogenes]

PS Mathcop, do you have any non franchised electronics stores near you?

[usama_ah]

setup #2 is the one I recommed as a final solution, so as we discussed before, when you have all the time in the world you should work towards this setup (maybe even enough time to get a Channel Master if you think wish to catch all digital stations without weather issues). Since it requires extra wire and moving your big TV (I feel for you, I have a 40" tube TV) I understand if you want to minimize this. Plus it seems like your TV is in a somewhat awkward, difficult to maneuver, position.

until you can get setup #2 -- these are my my recommendations, you can choose from 1 of the 2:

1. even though your receiver has an input for satellite, get an A/B switch and this would go in between your TV and the wire that comes from the DVD/VCR. The "A" could have the OTA antenna, the "B" your current setup's wire coming from the DVD/VCR, and finally the output from the A/B switch runs to the TV. the most simple one, but you spend money in the process and you might not need the A/B switch later (although they're great things to have around I guess). Remember to switch to Digital for "A" (the OTA antenna) and back to analog for "B" (everything else)
2. your D* receiver probably came with yellow, white, and red wires called composite wires (not component, which are the more expensive wires and they're for your DVD in setup #2). If it didn't and you don't have these cables lying around anywhere, you can pick some up at Best Buy or wherever you go (you'll need them later anyway so it's not a useless purchase, you don't need expensive Composite wires, any wire with the right length will do). Connect the OTA antenna straight into the TV, and forget about the cable running from the DVD/VCR to the TV. Take the composite wire (you found or bought), connect the DVD/VCR to the TV through AV1 or some other AV input using these composite wires. Now you keep the TV in Digital mode for the OTA antenna. If you want to watch a DVD or VHS movie, switch to AV1. If you want to watch D*, switch to AV1 and power up the VCR, make sure you choose "channel 3" or whatever the input channel you use when you want to record something off of a D* feed, because your D* coaxial is going into the VCR, and you should be able to watch D*

I'm hoping even with a small indoor antenna you can catch some stations -- they may not be completely stable in adverse weather conditions but it's possible. Nothing's ever 100% sure but you'd kick yourself if an indoor antenna works and you didn't try it until after the SuperBowl. -- With that in mind we all know that, as Diogenes and others recommend, a large outdoor antenna would be the best solution for you.

And finally -- just relax. Take everything one step at a time. It's the Super Bowl, but it's just a football game. If you don't get it working by then you can always wait till next season. If you watch Lost or 24 or some other prime time show you can catch those in HD and they look great in widescreen. Plus I'm a big fan of the PBS HD broadcasts (it's different from what's going on in regular PBS), and love their content.

Also, this HDTV stuff is complicated but as you noted earlier, you're learning as you go. Once your setup is complete you won't have to worry about it again (that is until you want a Dolby Digital setup or something).

[leww37334]

Originally Posted by usama_ah

setup #2 is the one I recommed as a final solution, so as we discussed before, when you have all the time in the world you should work towards this setup (maybe even enough time to get a Channel Master if you think wish to catch all digital stations without weather issues). Since it requires extra wire and moving your big TV (I feel for you, I have a 40" tube TV) I understand if you want to minimize this. Plus it seems like your TV is in a somewhat awkward, difficult to maneuver, position.

until you can get setup #2 -- these are my my recommendations, you can choose from 1 of the 2:

1. even though your receiver has an input for satellite, get an A/B switch and this would go in between your TV and the wire that comes from the DVD/VCR. The "A" could have the OTA antenna, the "B" your current setup's wire coming from the DVD/VCR, and finally the output from the A/B switch runs to the TV. the most simple one, but you spend money in the process and you might not need the A/B switch later (although they're great things to have around I guess). Remember to switch to Digital for "A" (the OTA antenna) and back to analog for "B" (everything else)
2. your D* receiver probably came with yellow, white, and red wires called composite wires (not component, which are the more expensive wires and they're for your DVD in setup #2). If it didn't and you don't have these cables lying around anywhere, you can pick some up at Best Buy or wherever you go (you'll need them later anyway so it's not a useless purchase, you don't need expensive Composite wires, any wire with the right length will do). Connect the OTA antenna straight into the TV, and forget about the cable running from the DVD/VCR to the TV. Take the composite wire (you found or bought), connect the DVD/VCR to the TV through AV1 or some other AV input using these composite wires. Now you keep the TV in Digital mode for the OTA antenna. If you want to watch a DVD or VHS movie, switch to AV1. If you want to watch D*, switch to AV1 and power up the VCR, make sure you choose "channel 3" or whatever the input channel you use when you want to record something off of a D* feed, because your D* coaxial is going into the VCR, and you should be able to watch D*

I'm hoping even with a small indoor antenna you can catch some stations -- they may not be completely stable in adverse weather conditions but it's possible. Nothing's ever 100% sure but you'd kick yourself if an indoor antenna works and you didn't try it until after the SuperBowl. -- With that in mind we all know that, as Diogenes and others recommend, a large outdoor antenna would be the best solution for you.

And finally -- just relax. Take everything one step at a time. It's the Super Bowl, but it's just a football game. If you don't get it working by then you can always wait till next season. If you watch Lost or 24 or some other prime time show you can catch those in HD and they look great in widescreen. Plus I'm a big fan of the PBS HD broadcasts (it's different from what's going on in regular PBS), and love their content.

Also, this HDTV stuff is complicated but as you noted earlier, you're learning as you go. Once your setup is complete you won't have to worry about it again (that is until you want a Dolby Digital setup or something).

One piece of fine tuning I would recommend here, since almost all DVD players are 480p now, I would use component cables (red, green, blue from the DVD player to AV1 on the back of the tv and red/white audio. This would give Mathcop 480P from the DVD player, which is a big improvement.

Then he could run composite yellow, red, white from the D* receiver to AV2 on the back of the TV.

What do you think usama_ah?

[usama_ah]

Originally Posted by leww37334

One piece of fine tuning I would recommend here, since almost all DVD players are 480p now, I would use component cables (red, green, blue from the DVD player to AV1 on the back of the tv and red/white audio. This would give Mathcop 480P from the DVD player, which is a big improvement.

Then he could run composite yellow, red, white from the D* receiver to AV2 on the back of the TV.

What do you think usama_ah?

leww37334, actually this is exactly what I recommended in my setup#2 -- the recent recommendations I made were designed to minimize costs and hassles, a temporary solution. I assure you I provided him with the optimal setup in an earlier post (where i detail "setup #2") and let him know that component wires are better for DVDs, especially if the DVD player can output in progressive scan.

lol, it's okay -- you didn't need to quote my ENTIRE posts, they tend to be very long.