No HDMI banding on my Toshiba 30HF85

Porcupine · 08-15-2008, 07:04 PM

It's been ages since I spoke here. I returned because I wanted to report that after finally hooking up my Toshiba 30HF85 to an HD source via HDMI cable, so far I have not discovered any issues with "HDMI banding" on any resolution setting (480p, 720p, and 1080i all tested) that people often complain about. I am using a Playstation 3 as my source. This input seems to provide the best video quality with the least issues, at least on my set. (I have not tried component cables at 1080i resolution to check for the white glow issue).

If I remember correctly my particular 30HF85 came from the very final batch made in October or November. Unfortunately it shares the same other video issues (which plague all inputs including HDMI) that plagued all the 30HF85s I saw from this particular production batch (a relatively small batch though, most 30HF85 aren't from this one). Namely a flickery looking screen in general (I suspect this is the same issue as the "HDMI banding" except much less severe and plaguing all inputs equally as opposed to just the HDMI) with dark horizontal waves moving randomly up and down the screen. And also a single stationary dark horizontal line about 1" from the bottom of the screen.

So I'm not saying my 30HF85 is good or anything, it's defective (and I didn't pay much for it since I got all my money back after a dispute). But at least I discovered, after finally getting an HD player, that the HDMI input is not any worse than the other inputs, in fact it's much better. Also most likely the video quality through HDMI is far better than those who say they have "HDMI banding" since they say the result is unwatchable, while the general banding that this production batch may have is somewhat minor (but global to all inputs).

Does anyone else remember if people who bought the next year's 30HF66 said that the HDMI banding and/or component video white glow issues were fixed?

Another thing I should mention is that my particular set was serviced once, which did not fix the horizontal line at the bottom of my screen like I had hoped, but it did alter the appearance of the wavy lines a lot. So at the very least I found out what causes the wavy lines; I am not sure if that is the same problem as the HDMI banding. If it is then perhaps a solution can be found for those who still care.

(In any case, I'm not very concerned these days as right now 42" 1080p Panasonic Plasmas can be bought for close to $1000, but I can't seem to bring myself to throw this 30HF85 into the trash can even though it sucks).

Porcupine · 08-17-2008, 09:53 PM

Sorry, I guess I spoke to soon. I tested out my Playstation 3 and Toshiba 30HF85 setup at 1080i some more and it turns out I do have this HDMI banding issue and I'm sure it is as bad as everyone else's. =D So at least now I know what it looks like. It is similar looking to the general flickeriness and moving dark line waves that appear on my particular (defective batch) set at all times on all inputs. But it's different in a few ways. Those lines move randomly and also aren't extremely obvious. The HDMI banding lines tend to be much thicker, are way more obvious (bigger drop in intensity), and don't appear randomly but appear only when certain types of high-contrast images (from the actual material you are viewing) are going off the left edge of the screen, as I had heard earlier.

So I guess maybe this is just as dumb processing glitch? There is also a funny color vertical line on the extreme left edge of my set (overscan set to close to zero via service menu) too which seems to suggest a programming/processing error.

I guess the good news is that I don't have any HDMI banding whatsoever on 480p or 720p. Some other people had reported that they did as well just that it looked different. Which at least I don't seem to have.

The other thing that seems nice, at least to me, is that when I give this set a 720p input I think it re-scales to 540p and not 1080i. The 540p/1080i setting in the regular TV menu has no effect when a 720p input is given. So it is choosing one but after careful studying of my TV I think it uses 540p which I personally prefer because I don't like the look of interlaced video. Horizontally I have no idea if it is computing the rescaling using the full 1920 pixels or just a reduced 960 pixels but it looks fine in any case and this TV can't resolve more than 800 lines or so in the horizontal direction anyway.

Sam Spastic · 08-20-2008, 01:00 PM

Anytime I see slowly drifting shadows I think 60Hz buzz. Is some of your equipment grounded? Do you get a sound buzz if you connect the analog audio cables? (I don't mean that nasty buzz like you get with an old tv and a bright spot in the picture but more like a low hum in the subwoffer.)

Finding the culprit is a process of elimination. (Just unplug one thing at a time. If that doesn't find it try combinations of 2.) Fixing it can be difficult tho.

Porcupine · 08-25-2008, 07:59 PM

Thanks for the advice, but I've pretty much given up hope on fixing the "moving dark lines" issue with this set. The repairman did change their appearance drastically (but it is hard to say if he improved them or not) so according to him the issue is simply poor solder-work on the various circuit boards.

Also the moving "dark horizontal line/bands" that I get on all inputs move VERY fast. They don't drift slowly. Most of the time you can hardly see them because they move so fast that it kind of averages out in your eyes to zero. But because the bands move randomly occasionally they "slow down" and you can see them for a split second before they start moving faster again and "disappear". Or, if you move your eyes up and down you can see them more often as well.

Originally, before the repairman serviced my set, these dark lines moved slower and were much easier to see. But they still moved very fast, relatively speaking. It's not a slow drift but an ultra-rapid up-and-down semi-random vibration pattern.

But to answer your question I believe that most of my equipment is grounded, and to the same outlet on the wall. I connect my audio via analog and get no buzz/hum. However I do get a buzz/hum if I connect my amplifier to other electronic devices (another amplifier, and/or a computer) across my room which use a different power outlet. So I know what it sounds like. (I also wish I could get rid of that problem but oh well it's not a big deal as normally I have no need to do that).

08-15-2008, 07:04 PM	#1
Porcupine My HDTV sux :( Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 344	No HDMI banding on my Toshiba 30HF85 It's been ages since I spoke here. I returned because I wanted to report that after finally hooking up my Toshiba 30HF85 to an HD source via HDMI cable, so far I have not discovered any issues with "HDMI banding" on any resolution setting (480p, 720p, and 1080i all tested) that people often complain about. I am using a Playstation 3 as my source. This input seems to provide the best video quality with the least issues, at least on my set. (I have not tried component cables at 1080i resolution to check for the white glow issue). If I remember correctly my particular 30HF85 came from the very final batch made in October or November. Unfortunately it shares the same other video issues (which plague all inputs including HDMI) that plagued all the 30HF85s I saw from this particular production batch (a relatively small batch though, most 30HF85 aren't from this one). Namely a flickery looking screen in general (I suspect this is the same issue as the "HDMI banding" except much less severe and plaguing all inputs equally as opposed to just the HDMI) with dark horizontal waves moving randomly up and down the screen. And also a single stationary dark horizontal line about 1" from the bottom of the screen. So I'm not saying my 30HF85 is good or anything, it's defective (and I didn't pay much for it since I got all my money back after a dispute). But at least I discovered, after finally getting an HD player, that the HDMI input is not any worse than the other inputs, in fact it's much better. Also most likely the video quality through HDMI is far better than those who say they have "HDMI banding" since they say the result is unwatchable, while the general banding that this production batch may have is somewhat minor (but global to all inputs). Does anyone else remember if people who bought the next year's 30HF66 said that the HDMI banding and/or component video white glow issues were fixed? Another thing I should mention is that my particular set was serviced once, which did not fix the horizontal line at the bottom of my screen like I had hoped, but it did alter the appearance of the wavy lines a lot. So at the very least I found out what causes the wavy lines; I am not sure if that is the same problem as the HDMI banding. If it is then perhaps a solution can be found for those who still care. (In any case, I'm not very concerned these days as right now 42" 1080p Panasonic Plasmas can be bought for close to $1000, but I can't seem to bring myself to throw this 30HF85 into the trash can even though it sucks).

08-20-2008, 01:00 PM	#3
Sam Spastic High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Just south of Normal Posts: 119	Ground loop problem? Anytime I see slowly drifting shadows I think 60Hz buzz. Is some of your equipment grounded? Do you get a sound buzz if you connect the analog audio cables? (I don't mean that nasty buzz like you get with an old tv and a bright spot in the picture but more like a low hum in the subwoffer.) Finding the culprit is a process of elimination. (Just unplug one thing at a time. If that doesn't find it try combinations of 2.) Fixing it can be difficult tho.

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08-17-2008, 09:53 PM	#2
Porcupine My HDTV sux :( Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 344	Sorry, I guess I spoke to soon. I tested out my Playstation 3 and Toshiba 30HF85 setup at 1080i some more and it turns out I do have this HDMI banding issue and I'm sure it is as bad as everyone else's. =D So at least now I know what it looks like. It is similar looking to the general flickeriness and moving dark line waves that appear on my particular (defective batch) set at all times on all inputs. But it's different in a few ways. Those lines move randomly and also aren't extremely obvious. The HDMI banding lines tend to be much thicker, are way more obvious (bigger drop in intensity), and don't appear randomly but appear only when certain types of high-contrast images (from the actual material you are viewing) are going off the left edge of the screen, as I had heard earlier. So I guess maybe this is just as dumb processing glitch? There is also a funny color vertical line on the extreme left edge of my set (overscan set to close to zero via service menu) too which seems to suggest a programming/processing error. I guess the good news is that I don't have any HDMI banding whatsoever on 480p or 720p. Some other people had reported that they did as well just that it looked different. Which at least I don't seem to have. The other thing that seems nice, at least to me, is that when I give this set a 720p input I think it re-scales to 540p and not 1080i. The 540p/1080i setting in the regular TV menu has no effect when a 720p input is given. So it is choosing one but after careful studying of my TV I think it uses 540p which I personally prefer because I don't like the look of interlaced video. Horizontally I have no idea if it is computing the rescaling using the full 1920 pixels or just a reduced 960 pixels but it looks fine in any case and this TV can't resolve more than 800 lines or so in the horizontal direction anyway.

08-25-2008, 07:59 PM	#4
Porcupine My HDTV sux :( Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 344	Thanks for the advice, but I've pretty much given up hope on fixing the "moving dark lines" issue with this set. The repairman did change their appearance drastically (but it is hard to say if he improved them or not) so according to him the issue is simply poor solder-work on the various circuit boards. Also the moving "dark horizontal line/bands" that I get on all inputs move VERY fast. They don't drift slowly. Most of the time you can hardly see them because they move so fast that it kind of averages out in your eyes to zero. But because the bands move randomly occasionally they "slow down" and you can see them for a split second before they start moving faster again and "disappear". Or, if you move your eyes up and down you can see them more often as well. Originally, before the repairman serviced my set, these dark lines moved slower and were much easier to see. But they still moved very fast, relatively speaking. It's not a slow drift but an ultra-rapid up-and-down semi-random vibration pattern. But to answer your question I believe that most of my equipment is grounded, and to the same outlet on the wall. I connect my audio via analog and get no buzz/hum. However I do get a buzz/hum if I connect my amplifier to other electronic devices (another amplifier, and/or a computer) across my room which use a different power outlet. So I know what it sounds like. (I also wish I could get rid of that problem but oh well it's not a big deal as normally I have no need to do that).