New 2008 smart car, great deal!

[unotis]

I put my name on a new 2008 smart Passion coupe I should be able to get it for around $14,500 with destination and floormats.

Penske announced that there will be no additional mark-up at their dealerships except for added equipment (which the Passion comes pretty much with everything except floormats standard).

Remember the car also get between 40 to 45 mpg, depending on how spirited you drive.

Someone I know has already driven one and he says it is very nice, extremely well built and has plenty of power. He does state that the automatic transmission has a shift lag of a around a second but, it is not too bad, the manual mode has a slightly more pronounced shift lag (which is strange) because that is the exact opposite from my 2003.

You can read about the cars at www.smartusa.com and if you get interested, sign up for one right there and deposit $99 (which is fully refundable if you change your mind) the cars start being delivered next April and there are already 13,000 deposits (there should be 45,000 imported in the first year).

I'm excited to add this to the family of fuel efficent cars we have already! Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!

[Smthkd]

Yeah, i saw alot of those when I was in Germany last year. Very nice little cars. With current gas prices they will be welcomed here in the USA. Now we need to get Citroen back!!

[unotis]

Originally Posted by Smthkd

Yeah, i saw alot of those when I was in Germany last year. Very nice little cars. With current gas prices they will be welcomed here in the USA. Now we need to get Citroen back!!

This is the new larger more powerful version (8 inches longer and 2 inches wider) designed to meet all the American crash standards (mostly pedestrian injury requirements ).

This model has 23 more horsepower ( 61 vs 84 hp) and a larger engine (0.7 vs 1.0 liter) then the one you saw in Europe which is like the one I owned for 3 years (you can see a picture of it in the car forum on this site.

And you are correct I owned a Citroen 2VC, what a great fun car that was!

[DSNY FN]

Originally Posted by unotis

This is the new larger more powerful version (8 inches longer and 2 inches wider) designed to meet all the American crash standards (mostly pedestrian injury requirements ).

This model has 23 more horsepower ( 61 vs 84 hp) and a larger engine (0.7 vs 1.0 liter) then the one you saw in Europe which is like the one I owned for 3 years (you can see a picture of it in the car forum on this site.

And you are correct I owned a Citroen 2VC, what a great fun car that was!

So have you had them available since 03 or are they just coming to the US in 08? We have had them up here for quite some time all diesel engines and great mileage also. I think ours is the direct Euro model and thus no dimentional changes or motor changes.

http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?id=4806

[unotis]

Originally Posted by DSNY FN

So have you had them available since 03 or are they just coming to the US in 08? We have had them up here for quite some time all diesel engines and great mileage also. I think ours is the direct Euro model and thus no dimentional changes or motor changes.

http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?id=4806

No, I bought mine in Germany shipped it here then shipped it to California and had it converted to US standards and requirements.

Mine was actually one of the very first ever converted and titled legally here in the USA (although it cost over $27,000 to do it, with alot of Brabus performance parts added) OH Well, early adopters always pay alot to break ground on new technology available.

[DSNY FN]

Originally Posted by unotis

No, I bought mine in Germany shipped it here then shipped it to California and had it converted to US standards and requirements.

Mine was actually one of the very first ever converted and titled legally here in the USA (although it cost over $27,000 to do it, with alot of Brabus performance parts added) OH Well, early adopters always pay alot to break ground on new technology available.

LOL ya I guess what is funny about that is I tried to get a CBR 400RR out of Japan that was titled and licensed in the US and bring it to Canada and our MTO said no way no how unless it was built for our market it would be for closed circuit use only. I called every form of government official I could get ahold of and was told the same thing all the way up the line. I so wanted one of the 400CC bikes here either the CBR or the VFR/RVF 400's but no dice it was not going to happen atleast you can bring in stuff like this and get it running on the road unlike up here. It is also funny how the US marked needed to get an upgraded motor and a larger platform for the Smart for 2 than we did up here.

[mshulman]

How will that do in an accident with some of the monstrous vehicles out there? Suburban's, other large SUV's or even Mac Trucks??

[Smthkd]

From my knowledge the frame and chassis is designed like a role cage so you it should be pretty safe! But, still being hit by something like an SUV is going to leave you banged up pretty good no matter what type of car your in.

[unotis]

I've seen video, where they ran a smart car into a concrete wall at 70 mph and there was no intrusion or damage inside the passenger compartment, heck the glass didn't even break and the doors still opened, the crumple zone worked perfectly and the tridion frame (roll cage) didn't deform at all.

You're safer in a smart car then probably any small compact now sold in the USA but, you could be in a Cadillac and if a full size SUV behemoth hit you, you're still toast!

That is the same stupid question I heard for 3 years (not referring to the above questioner), "I wouldn't want to be hit in that car by a Semi-truck or train or Huge SUV" (well duh, I wouldn't want to be in anything and get hit by one of them, even a Armoured car).

[junehhan]

Maybe i'm more of a traditionalist, but boy do I think that car is ugly. From what I read, it appears that these vehicles are just your standard ICE vehicle right? What's the use when you've already got mroe traditional vehicles like the Civic Hybrid or Toyota Prius that have more utility and already get getter gas mileage? The only advantage I see is price, but that is also questionable when you can easily get a fuel efficient Focus, Civic, Corolla, or Cobalt for that price range. Even if there is limited interest from a group of enthusiasts, how would this car do when you've even got vehicles like the Honda Fit or Toyota Yarus that are visually more appealing, get very good mileage, and also are very cheap?

[SLedford]

junehhan,

Some of the reasons you mentioned are why many of the car experts are questioning the marketability of the Smart Car. I think it will sell well as a niche car.

The competition (Yaris, Fit, Aveo, etc) are not as luxurious and get mid to upper 30's on the road. The Smart Car will have leather seats and is a division of Mercedes. They are saying it will average out at 40 MPG, which means mid-30's for in-town driving and probably upper 40's or low 50's for road driving. When they finally put in a clean diesel it will get 70's MPG or more for road mileage.

The two primary markets that I see are:
- comuter car. Only one or two people driving to and from work. They will drive something different for family events or road trips.
- teen's car. This thing will probably be a huge hit at high schools and colleges, especially since parking is frequently tight at both. The thing I like is that it has no back seat passengers, a distraction that causes lots of the accidents that teens have.

The biggest marketing problem that Smart will have is that they are only bringing 16,000 of them over here the first year, and there is no diesel engine (in the USA) at this point. For the first year or so the demand will outstrip supply, which will allow the competition to "feel the pulse" on demand for this product and react accordingly.

Finally, the thing I hear most often about this car is "what if an SUV hits this thing?". It will get crushed, just like a Corolla, Mini-Cooper, Jetta, Civic, etc. The Smart Car is loaded with safety features that the others may or may not have, but the truth is that in the small car vs large car collision, physics says the small car loses.

For myself, I am going to have to chose between two options:
- Keep the Caravan (less than $1k trade value) and get a small commuter car (like the Smart or Volt, when it is available), or
- Replace the Caravan with something somewhat larger but with fairly good gas mileage. I am using the diesel Jetta as a model, althought I am concerned about what I am reading on the net about Volkswagen car quality and customer service.

[DSNY FN]

Originally Posted by junehhan

Maybe i'm more of a traditionalist, but boy do I think that car is ugly. From what I read, it appears that these vehicles are just your standard ICE vehicle right? What's the use when you've already got mroe traditional vehicles like the Civic Hybrid or Toyota Prius that have more utility and already get getter gas mileage? The only advantage I see is price, but that is also questionable when you can easily get a fuel efficient Focus, Civic, Corolla, or Cobalt for that price range. Even if there is limited interest from a group of enthusiasts, how would this car do when you've even got vehicles like the Honda Fit or Toyota Yarus that are visually more appealing, get very good mileage, and also are very cheap?

The Smart car up here is the Diesel not a gas engine one of the firefighters my father in law works with drives his to Toronto a couple times a week and it goes to TO and back to London on less than an 1/8 of a tank of diesel.

[unotis]

Originally Posted by junehhan

Maybe i'm more of a traditionalist, but boy do I think that car is ugly. From what I read, it appears that these vehicles are just your standard ICE vehicle right? What's the use when you've already got mroe traditional vehicles like the Civic Hybrid or Toyota Prius that have more utility and already get getter gas mileage? The only advantage I see is price, but that is also questionable when you can easily get a fuel efficient Focus, Civic, Corolla, or Cobalt for that price range. Even if there is limited interest from a group of enthusiasts, how would this car do when you've even got vehicles like the Honda Fit or Toyota Yarus that are visually more appealing, get very good mileage, and also are very cheap?

I guess that is why it can be referred to a matter of taste, as an owner of a smart car, I think it is a very good looking car and very distinctive and fresh looking, it is the only in production car on display in the Museum of Modern Art as a prime example of automotive design as art (something the Fit nor the Yarius can claim) both are nice looking cars but not ground breaking designs.

And Penske has stated that they will not have the cars priced over sticker by their dealerships unless there is added equipment, which won't be very likely since the Passion model comes with just about everything you can have on a car, so you will probably see MSRP and delivery/prep combined to make the sticker price just like every new car sold in the USA. I suspect it will be $13,990 plus $495 delivery/prep to make around a $14,485 sticker (give or take a $100) depending on what delivery ends up costing.

And from what I've read the car will get 40 to 45 mpg using the new gas mileage method of calculation. Which if you use the new method is about the same as the Toyota Prius gets and it can cost you twice what the smart Passion costs up to $29,000, I've seen them stickered for that personally and their Federal tax rebate is only $781 now, where the Civic Hybrid is still $2100, there is your best value for small four door high gas mileage cars, and the top sticker price on the Civic Hybrid is just over $24,000 with the satilite navigation system included and just over $22,400 without. And our Civic Hybrid gets 49 to 55 mpg (I keep track of gas mileage on all our cars).

[junehhan]

I agree with Sledford that this will likely be a niche car. I just don't see our American culture adopting this en masse as it doesn't appear to fit our culture of bigger is better. The wierd exterior design would be the largest barrier in my opinion, as at least the Mini Cooper from Mini was a cute looking car. I just don't see it doing very well as you are going to have a hard time selling this puppy to someone who is looking to spend $14-15k on a car, and want something that has more utility than this thing. Now if they can fit one of those with a clean diesel in that price range, that could attract another niche' market.

My anateur analysis is that Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler(now Cerberus) has nothing to worry about as I doubt someone looking for a Focus, Cobalt, or that new small Dodge will crossshop a Smart. Honda, Toyota, and Nissan may have more to worry about as this vehicle would be in direct competition with the Yaris, Fit, and that new mini Nissan that i've seen floating around lately. However, the amount of competition would be likely be limited only to the big megacities in America where they would be likely to sell cars like these. The Chevy Aveo falls into this category, but somehow I doubt the same person would consider the smart. I think the Smart is a car that has great potential if it looked a bit more normal.

I know that I wouldn't consider one, especially since I value a roomy and comfortable interior. I like my SUV for trips because of the sofa like seats and lots of room(I pack heavy), and I like my Focus because it has such a roomy interior for such a small car.

[SLedford]

junehhan,

Did you realize that the European version of the Ford Focus is the leading car in sales in Britain? They have a diesel version there as well. A number of the top European car models in Europe are American branded. Not made here, but American branded.

I understand that the US auto regulations tend to add weight (stronger doors, more crash resistant) so they cannot just bring over the succesful cars from Europe, but I don't understand the thinking from Ford & GM. There is and will be a growing demand for fuel efficient autos and they have hugely successful, proven winner cars over there. It's not like they have to completely re-invent the wheel.

The American auto companies are thinking that the new clean diesels will flop here in the US. Most of the other car makers (including the Japanese & Koreans) will have clean diesels in 2008, 2009 or 2010. Detroit may be right, but I am betting that the resistance to diesels (caused by the crap they dumped on us in the past) will quickly go away with a little publicity and that diesels will be hugely successful. And once again our US auto companies will be caught flat footed, despite having wonderful diesel cars in Europe.

A lot of our problems come from the lack of leadership and imagination. Our CEO's are more concerned with their bonuses (even in years they lose money), perks and severance packages than with the overall good of the company.

At one time we invented and the Japanese copied what we did. Now they are the innovators and we react.