RCN - Getting away with Extortion!

electrictroy

That makes zero sense. Smaller companies are the ones most likely to receive a waiver saying they do *not* have to upgrade to digital, because it would be too expensive.

Can you please quote this supposed FCC regulation?

__________________


TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

JPL

I spelled it out in one of my prior posts. On 7/1/07 a new FCC regulation went into effect regarding separable security. All cable boxes that they provide after that date cannot have integrated security. That means (based on how the cable industry devised such a solution) all cable boxes offered after that date MUST be able to accept a cable card.

Smaller cable outfits that requested it (including Verizon, and I'm guessing, based on their size, RCN) were granted a temporary waiver on the requirement. A one year waiver for advanced boxes (e.g. HD DVRs) and a two year waiver for basic boxes (e.g. SD STBs). However, in exchange for granting the waiver, these cable companies were required to eliminate ALL analogs, including locals, by 2/17/09. I'm not sure why the FCC made that as a requirement, but they did. Verizon just made a big deal out of the fact that they finished their conversion 3 months early.

JPL

Did I say that it's ok for cable companies to do whatever they want with no reprecussions? No, I didn't. I said that I believe that competition will provide more incentive than anything else to prevent companies from doing stupid stuff. I agree that what RCN is doing is stupid, but the market will punish them for it. Also, where did I say that all companies should be regulation free? Where did I say that? I said that a company should be able to charge whatever they wanted for their services. That's something else entirely.

I also object to the notion that what RCN is doing is extortion. Extortion has a very specific connotation - to whit, I am forcing you to do something that you wouldn't ordinarily do, because the consequences of you NOT doing that would inflict undue pain on you. Is that what RCN is doing? I don't think so. They're providing a cost for their service. Customers can decide for themselves whether they want to engage in that contract or not.

BTW, you do have more choices than you realize. For example, one service out there is called Sky Angel. They're full IP, and available to anyone who has access to a high speed internet connection.

makryger

Maybe I am misunderstanding the FCC document I linked to above, but it seems like there will be a requirement for local HD, come February. Does anyone else get that impression from the document? (See post #38)

For example:
““a cable operator may not provide a digital broadcast signal in a lesser format or lower resolution than that afforded to any digital programmer (e.g., non-broadcast cable programming, other broadcast digital program, etc.) carried on the cable system, provided, however, that a broadcast signal delivered in HDTV [i.e., high definition] must be carried in HDTV.””

“Wetherefore remind cable operators that the signals of all must-carry stations must be made viewable to all
subscribers pursuant to the Commission’s rules, and acknowledge the continued pledges of cable industry
commenters, including the operators of small systems, to ensure viewability.”

makryger

Buy Cable box, pay a lot for digital service= something I would not normally do, but am being forced to do.
Undue Pain= Not being able to watch HD without the above.

Just playing devil's advocate

electrictroy

That document also states: "We hold that [small] cable systems... are exempt from the requirement to carry high definition versions of broadcast signals for three years following the digital television (“DTV”) Transition."

It sounds like small companies do not have to carry digital and may continue to provide analog versions to their customers (due to smaller budgets and limited money for upgrades). The document later states in point 5 that some cable companies are exempted from carrying local channels in digital format. i.e. They are allowed to provide analog.

So this means that RCN is allowed to continue to provide analog service to its customers. IMHO its only motive to abandon analog is to extort more money via "rentals" of digital boxes.

__________________


TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

JPL

Unless they were granted that separable security waiver. If they were then they HAVE to eliminate all their analogs! Look, I'm not making that requirement up - it's out there. Like I said, Verizon made a big deal out of the fact that they wrapped up that work 3 months ahead of schedule. And yes, this includes locals. In fact, except for Weatherscan Local and TV Guide Channel, the ONLY analogs that Verizon had were locals. And those were simulcast in both digital and analog, and Verizon STILL had to get rid of them all per that waiver. I'm not sure if RCN falls within this or not - I don't know if they requested a waiver, and if they did, whether or not it was granted. But if they did, then they HAVE to get rid of all their analogs.

makryger

The small-cable company exemption was for companies with 2,500 subscribers or less. The document states that that leaves only 11 "large" cable companies required to follow those rules. I'll bet that RCN has more than 2500 subscribers. I believe is was targeted toward rural cable companies, that just didn't have the money and infrastructure to carry analog and digital at the same time.

Though, I'm not familiar with this other waiver that youre talking about, allowing them to keep analogs... But I suppose it doesn't make a difference, if they have switched to all-digital on their own.

In light of this discussion, I decided to rescan for clearQAM channels last night, after going ~2 months without scanning. Evidentally, RCN has gone back to unencrypting most of the major local HD channels in Chicago! That includes CW, ABC, PBS, Fox and CBS. There is still no NBC HD, nor any of the secondary broadcast channels (like ABC News Now), which is kind of disappointing. Luckily, the only thing I can get reliably over the air is NBC. Just a hassle to switch between qam and atsc every time heroes is on. :S

electrictroy

Then stop talking about it, and start showing it to me. Please give me a FCC document that I can read.

I'm just finding it hard to believe that the FCC would mandate cable stop providing analog, because the FCC knows that most viewers NEED analog to keep their old sets working. My brother's Comcast is still providing analog. He doesn't need a digital-to-analog converter box... why would Comcast be exempt from this "security" requirement?

__________________


TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

JPL

Okie doke:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-07-2921A1.txt

Of particular note is this little item:

"The Petitioners have indicated that they operate all-digital systems or will transition to all-digital systems by February 17, 2009."

And you're misreading things. Comcast WASN'T given a waiver for this separable security requirement. They put in for one, but it was rejected. Only those companies that were granted that temporary waiver (e.g. Verizon) were required to migrate all their feeds to digital. Why that would be (why that's a requirement of this waiver) I have no earthly idea, but it is. But because Comcast wasn't given a waiver, they AREN'T required to go all digital.

JPL

No, that's not correct. Verizon was granted a waiver. Look at the document in my last post - Verizon is listed in the appendix as being approved for getting that waiver. And they had nearly 500,000 customers when they put in for that waiver.

JPL

One more item - not to beat this into the ground - and it took me a few minutes to find it, but here you go:

http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-...completes.html

That's Verizon's press release for their digital conversion. Note this:

"Completing the digital upgrade also satisfied the Federal Communications Commission's requirement to convert FiOS TV to an all-digital service by Feb.17, 2009..."

Now, was RCN granted this type of waiver? I have no idea. Note I kept saying 'may' with all of this. They MAY have been granted this waiver. If that's the case, then they, like Verizon, will be required to eliminate all analogs by 2/17/09 per that separable security waiver requirement. My only point was to contest (way back near the top of this thread) that when RCN said that they were required to go all digital, they may be telling the truth. If they were granted this waiver, then they ARE telling the truth on that. Do I still think it's crappy that they're not carrying their locals in the clear? Yes. Should they do what Verizon did and offer a very pared down D/A adapter for free? Yes. But again, I'm NOT making this up. This was all part of a long-term FCC initiative to create competition in the cable box market. They want to do to cable boxes what they did to phones. Once upon a time, you couldn't buy a phone. You wanted a phone, you called the phone company, and the installed one for you, and you leased it from them (sound familiar?). The deregulation that happened with that, allowed third party manufacturers to come on line and start offering phones dirt cheap. THAT'S what the FCC is trying to do with this separable security requirement.

Because the box's security must be removeable from the box itself, I could, in theory, go to my local Best Buy, get a box off the shelf, and with a cable card from my cable company, get up and running. Yeah, you'd still have to lease the cable card, but it would be a hell of alot cheaper than leasing a box, and you would see some real innovations in the hardware. The FCC has been trying to implement this requirement for years, but kept getting pushed back. Finally they drew a line in the sand and required that all cable companies offer boxes that have separable security. That regulation went into effect on 7/1/07. Several companies petitioned the FCC that such a requirement was too expensive, and so the FCC allowed for a temporary waiver for smaller cable outfits that requested it. Those outfits would have a one year waiver for advanced boxes (e.g. HD DVRs) and a two year waiver for basic boxes (e.g. SD STBs).

Interestingly enough, the box that Verizon offered for free is the Motorola DCT700 - a box that they wouldn't be able to offer at all if they were not granted the waiver in the first place, since that box has integrated security (doesn't accept a cable card).

electrictroy

All I see here is a discussion of set-top boxes, and that they should be "open" so that customers can buy equipment from the competition (like Best Buy).

I do not see any requirement that is forcing cable companies to stop sending local channels in analog. Please quote the sentence where this requirement is laid down.

As my local Comcast, I never said they received a waiver. I don't know if they received a waiver or not..... all I know is that they continue to transmit analog. Why are they allowed to continue to send analog, but RCN claims they can not?

__________________


TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

JPL

I did! Twice! First in my posting with the FCC regulation:

"The Petitioners have indicated that they operate all-digital systems or will transition to all-digital systems by February 17, 2009."

Read the stupid regulation. It's really clear - the ONLY reason the FCC agreed to give a waiver at all was because these providers assured the FCC that they were either all digital or that they would go all digital by 2/17/09. Why do you think that's in there? Read the rest of the document - it's really clear that that's what the FCC is doing. There are also other supporting documents on the FCC's website - go do a search. If you read some of the other supporting documents, the FCC makes it clear that they've hit that 'enough is enough' stage with this security requirement - they first created it years ago, but it kept getting pushed back. Finally, they drew a line in the sand, and told providers that they had no choice, they had to implement this. But some smaller providers came back and said that the timeline was too short - that they needed a temporary waiver per that requirement. The ONLY reason the FCC agreed to consider a waiver was spelled out in that statement, above - these systems promised the FCC that they would be all digital by 2/17/09!

The second time was in my other posting with Verizon's press release:

"Completing the digital upgrade also satisfied the Federal Communications Commission's requirement to convert FiOS TV to an all-digital service by Feb.17, 2009..."

Note that word: requirement. The FCC REQUIRED Verizon to go all digital! Why? Because of this separable security waiver. I really don't know how to make this any clearer. I'm a FiOS subscriber and this was a major topic of discussion on many FiOS TV forums. And the reason this is potent is simple. The ONLY channels Verizon carried in analog were locals! They didn't carry all their channels in analog. AND they simulcast them - they carried them both in analog and digital and STILL the FCC REQUIRED that they ELIMINATE their analog feeds. If they didn't require the elimination of analog locals, then Verizon wouldn't have had to go through this exercise just to get the waiver.

As for Comcast, your objection to my statement was this:

"My brother's Comcast is still providing analog. He doesn't need a digital-to-analog converter box... why would Comcast be exempt from this "security" requirement? "

This reads as follows: Well, if what you're saying is true, then why isn't Comcast all digital?

It appeard that you didn't understand the requirement, so I provided clarification. The only reason Comcast would be forced to go all digital is if the got the waiver. They put in for one, and didn't get it. As a result they themselves have no requirement to go all digital by 2/17/09.

As for my discussion about buying a box from BB, I was simply pointing out the history of the requirement. The FCC is trying to address the concerns of many - including many on this very thread. That the cost of these boxes is so high. One way to do that - remove the security functionality from the box itself. That way I could get a box and put in the security functionality via a cable card.

I'm sorry if you don't believe me, but I've done what you asked - I've provided documentation backing up what I said. Please provide proof that I'm wrong. Or at the very least, go to the FCC's website (www.fcc.gov) and go to the search area, and put in 'separable security' or 'separable security waiver' and you'll see what I'm talking about.

electrictroy

Maybe the reason I don't understand is because you're wording is "off". Like so: The way you word things here, it sounds like Comcast is required to provide analog to is customers. They asked for a waiver to that requirement but were denied.

As for Verizon's press release, it means nothing to me since companies routinely lie. As example: When Comcast Internet claimed they were not throttling connections, but it was later discovered they lied. I no longer believe anything coming from the corporate mouth. ----- That's why I keep asking for FCC references... a smoking gun that says, "The FCC requires cable companies to provide analog signals." LIKE SO: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/dtvcable.html (DTV Transition Does Not Require Cable Systems to Switch to Digital)

Also: "The Federal Communications Commission late Tuesday unanimously adopted rules designed to prevent analog-only cable subscribers from losing their local TV stations’ signals for three years after the switch to digital TV occurs Feb. 17, 2009. The ruling does allow cable operators with small subscriber bases or limited bandwidth capacity to seek waivers from the dual carriage requirement." http://www.tvweek.com/news/2007/09/f...al_broadca.php

__________________


TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65