High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Programming Providers > Cable Providers
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

Cable Providers Discuss and learn about High Definition Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, Adelphia and other cable HDTV providers. RSS - Cable Providers

Basic Cable and unencrypted "in the clear" local HD question

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2007, 04:16 PM   #1
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Default Basic Cable and unencrypted "in the clear" local HD question

I live in Perry, Ga and have Comsouth Cable. Long explanation short. I'm looking to go to satellite because of the lack of HD channels in addition to the expense of the HD/digital service and boxes(two HD and three analog tvs). The issue with getting satellite is that between distance(30 to 40+ miles from local transmitters) and the trees around the house, it would be very difficult to impossible to pick up the High Def local channels. The SXRD's tuner can pick up unencrypted digital channels. So, as of right now, i can get the locals with just the extended(non-digital) cable service. I'm also not happy with the dsl service that i have and would love to get cable internet.

So, my question is. Do you guys think that i would be able to subscribe to just basic cable and still be able to pick up the local high defs(50.1,50.3,51.1,51.3)? Those channels are UHF so my fear is that when they put the blocker on to keep the UHF from coming through, i'd lose the ability to pick them up.

Or, do you think that i might be able to just subscribe to cable internet and still be able to pick those up.

Thanks
somerandomguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 04:24 PM   #2
Football in HD, mmm good!
 
deadhead68's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 2,923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by somerandomguy View Post
I live in Perry, Ga and have Comsouth Cable. Long explanation short. I'm looking to go to satellite because of the lack of HD channels in addition to the expense of the HD/digital service and boxes(two HD and three analog tvs). The issue with getting satellite is that between distance(30 to 40+ miles from local transmitters) and the trees around the house, it would be very difficult to impossible to pick up the High Def local channels. The SXRD's tuner can pick up unencrypted digital channels. So, as of right now, i can get the locals with just the extended(non-digital) cable service. I'm also not happy with the dsl service that i have and would love to get cable internet.

So, my question is. Do you guys think that i would be able to subscribe to just basic cable and still be able to pick up the local high defs(50.1,50.3,51.1,51.3)? Those channels are UHF so my fear is that when they put the blocker on to keep the UHF from coming through, i'd lose the ability to pick them up.

Or, do you think that i might be able to just subscribe to cable internet and still be able to pick those up.

Thanks
If Comsouth is like Comcast here in Chicago, the yes you will be able to pick up your locals in HD with basic cable. I am confused however that you mentioned a "blocker" that would keep the UHF from coming through? Not sure what you mean by that. And if you receive your locals in HD from basic cable, it won't matter if they're UHF or VHF. You won't be getting them OTA, but from Comsouth.

One other point, if you're going with satellite Directv or Dish may carry your locals in HD and you won't even need the basic cable from Comsouth. Just an idea.

DeadHead68
__________________
Panasonic TC-P46X3
HR24-500
Sony STR-DG810 Receiver
Sony BDP-S360
Denon SYS-76HT Speaker System
Harmony 650
deadhead68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 04:52 PM   #3
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Default

Well, we don't have a box because we just subscribe to analog cable. They would put a frequency blocker on the line to the house that would block out anything in the UHF frequency range. VHF ranges from 30MHz to 300MHz and UHF goes from 300MHz to 3000MHz. Channels 2-13 are VHF and 14 and above are UHF. So if you subscribe to just basic cable(channels 2-13) then they put a frequency blocker on the line which stops anything above 300MHz from coming through. Since the carrier signal that our HD Channels are on is in the UHF frequency range, i'm worried that they wouldn't make it through.

The problem with satellite here is i'm not near a market where I can get the locals in High Def. So it'd be great if i could get the basic cable to get high def locals for $12 instead of paying for the $6 package of just low def.
somerandomguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 12:31 PM   #4
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Default

nobody has any idea on this?
somerandomguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 02:26 PM   #5
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

I'm not sure, and it might be different in different areas, but generally the filters/traps they put in place aim for 650 MHz rather than 300 MHz. You'd have to check with folks in your local area who have basic service to see whether traps are used, and if so, what frequency they're trapping beyond.

Keep in mind that, although Comcast is not required to pass through HD locals in-the-clear until February 2009 (or until the local channel itself goes digital-only, whichever comes first), their corporate policy is to do so. Most Comcast systems are complying with that policy, so theoretically you should be okay with what you planning, and after February 2009 you'll surely be okay with what you're planning.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 06:36 PM   #6
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
I'm not sure, and it might be different in different areas, but generally the filters/traps they put in place aim for 650 MHz rather than 300 MHz. You'd have to check with folks in your local area who have basic service to see whether traps are used, and if so, what frequency they're trapping beyond.

Keep in mind that, although Comcast is not required to pass through HD locals in-the-clear until February 2009 (or until the local channel itself goes digital-only, whichever comes first), their corporate policy is to do so. Most Comcast systems are complying with that policy, so theoretically you should be okay with what you planning, and after February 2009 you'll surely be okay with what you're planning.
ok, i've been in email contact with Comsouth's head engineer. You think he'd give me a straight answer if i asked that in a round-about-way without actually telling him we're switching to satellite?

Ya know what? the box is out front and open. I've already taken a look at it and it's a Scientific Atlanta AS-SGPDU-C2/4 part number 738447D. There's a little screw on the top for each of the four connectors outputs. I wonder if it's for the filter. I could turn the one for our house and see what happens.

You are probably right when you say they aim for 650MHz but i think that our cable company filters out around 300MHz. The basic cable stops at channel 13 which is at 211MHz. Channel 14 is UHF and is at 471MHz. I don't know how they do but either way, the local high def channels are located at 50.1,50.3,51.1, and 51.3 which are around 690MHz. So, even if they are unencrypted, i don't know if those frequencies will get through with a filter.
somerandomguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 11:07 PM   #7
CMMS Junkie
 
jjufon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Frisco Tx
Posts: 1,310
Default

I wish they would make this a sticky but anyway, the Cable Co. can not block ANY HD channel they carry. If you get their lowest tier you still get all the “free” HD channels. Now this excludes those that are “pay” based. HBO, HDNET, ESPN, etc. but all others are there. This is an FCC law in place NOW; not in the future.
I’ve often wonder way a class action lawsuit hasn’t been filed aginst them. The small print makes it sound like you MUST rent their box in order to receive any HD channels. This is not true! If you have the correct tuner (SXRD does) you only need to connect the cable directly to the TV in order to receive them.
__________________
JJufon
jjufon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 11:17 PM   #8
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Default

ok, cool.

I believe you but can you direct me to where i can see it in print? Would just like to read up on it so i can ask the right questions to the that engineer.

Satellite is so much better than the cable around here in terms of selection and cost. Each extra box is $13 a month.
somerandomguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 04:07 AM   #9
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post
This is an FCC law in place NOW; not in the future.
The reason why it isn't a sticky is because you're mistaken. The currently regulations only require in-the-clear carriage of local broadcast digital channels if the channel itself only broadcasts in digital, or if the subscriber is paying a separate HD package charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somerandomguy View Post
... can you direct me to where i can see it in print?
Good thinking. This is all the regulations currently say about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCC
A commercial television station, broadcasting in both formats during the transition period, may choose must carry or retransmission consent for its analog signal and retransmission consent for its digital signal. A DTV-only commercial television station may elect either retransmission consent or must carry.
So cable companies aren't even required to carry the digital channel if they don't want to.

Seriously, your best bet is to just talk to the engineer honestly, asking your question straight-out. If you try going in with an attitude that he owes you something, especially since he doesn't, but even if he really did, you're much less likely to get an advantageous reply.

Last edited by bicker; 12-22-2007 at 04:14 AM.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:08 PM   #10
CMMS Junkie
 
jjufon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Frisco Tx
Posts: 1,310
Default

i've been at this a long time so trust me. i'm right.
i'm not saying that they must carry anything, but if they DO carry it you DO NOT have to rent a box nor can they BLOCK the free ones regardless of tier of service


http://www.highdefforum.com/showthre...405#post212405

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitaltv.html

"Cable subscribers may buy a “Digital Cable Ready” (DCR) or “Plug-and-Play” television that plugs directly into the cable jack and does not require a separate set-top box. In order to receive scrambled programming and premium one-way services, cable subscribers with a DCR TV will need to obtain a CableCARD from their cable company."


i am brand new to HD,just bought tv
__________________
JJufon

Last edited by jjufon; 12-22-2007 at 12:12 PM.
jjufon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:22 PM   #11
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post
"Cable subscribers may buy a “Digital Cable Ready” (DCR) or “Plug-and-Play” television that plugs directly into the cable jack and does not require a separate set-top box. In order to receive scrambled programming and premium one-way services, cable subscribers with a DCR TV will need to obtain a CableCARD from their cable company."
Not how it says nothing about a requirement for HD broadcast locals in-the-clear. Sorry, friend, but you're engaging in a bit of wishful thinking (and have so engaged several times, apparently).

Starting in 2009, HD locals will have to be in-the-clear.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:33 PM   #12
CMMS Junkie
 
jjufon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Frisco Tx
Posts: 1,310
Default

dude,
it is a federal crime for the CC to charge you extra to receive FREE HD channels. Fact!
you do not have to rent the CC box in order to receive these free HD channels nor but their HD pkg: Fact (as long as you have the correct tv)

"Digital cable ready” (or “plug-and-play”) televisions are also available. These can be used to receive digital cable TV (and often HD over cable) without a separate set-top box. A CableCARD is needed to watch certain cable programming. These televisions do not work directly with satellite - you still need a set-top box to view satellite programming. " http://www.dtv.gov/shopgde.html

i think you are missing the point of the OP.

if your cable company carriers your local channels in HD then you have access to them regardless of level of service; no need to pay extra unless you want the HD channels not offter OTA.
__________________
JJufon
jjufon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:48 PM   #13
CMMS Junkie
 
jjufon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Frisco Tx
Posts: 1,310
Default From the NCTA website

What kind of equipment do I need to receive HDTV?

You will need to purchase a digital television capable of displaying a high-definition signal, which uses either the 1080i or 720p format. Most high-definition digital televisions will display these formats. In some digital television sets, the digital decoding and tuning functions are built into the TV. Other instances require a digital monitor, capable of displaying HDTV, plus a tuner in a separate set-top box. When receiving HDTV from cable, an HD set-top box may be purchased at a retail outlet or leased from the cable operator, depending on the local cable system.
__________________
JJufon
jjufon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 04:41 PM   #14
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post
dude,
it is a federal crime for the CC to charge you extra to receive FREE HD channels. Fact!
"Dude:" Following an assertion with the word "fact" doesn't make it a fact.

"Dude:" Post a citation to the regulation that says explicitly that MSOs must broadcast both analog and digital signals of all local broadcast channels currently broadcasting both analog and digital signals. Otherwise, please accept that I believe your assertion is wrong (and that is borne out by the fact that some MSOs don't provide HD locals in-the-clear yet), and more importantly I don't believe that you should be setting expectations of readers that they are entitled to something which they aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post
i think you are missing the point of the OP.
I think you are: The OP was inquiring about what he could assert was required. You gave him unreliable information. What else can I say?
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 06:26 PM   #15
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1
Default

I have been for a while looking for a HDTV with a cable card slot with no luck, any reason for that,
I HATE these extra remote controls and their ugly boxes,
juha2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Programming Providers > Cable Providers
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads to Basic Cable and unencrypted "in the clear" local HD question
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Troubleshooting: HD Channels Missing rpatrick Local HDTV Info and Reception 4 05-03-2008 05:33 AM
Comcast and Sharp 52d62u bwcafishing Cable Providers 1 08-26-2007 10:09 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:58 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright ©2004 - 2008, High Def Forum