Blue Ray may not be worth it for it for me.

strawberry · 07-10-2005, 03:55 AM

Yeah- I can’t quite make out exactly what the author is getting at with the 852 number- I can’t imagine where he would get that number, but what I can tell you for sure is that NTSC compliant DVD video cannot contain more than 720 horizontal pixels under any circumstances. Anamorphic DVD’s are authored with the exact same pixel resolution that all other DVD’s are- the difference is that the full, widescreen frame is squeezed into a 4:3 space during encoding, and then stretched back out to 16:9 during playback- that’s really all it is. Anamorphic DVD’s are nothing new- they’ve been around since the launch of the DVD format.

But back to this 852 number- I have to say that I’m ashamed of the author of this article from ecoustics for throwing that out there. An ecoustics forum member even posted at the bottom of the page the article appears on and corrects him. The main thing, though, is that per the guidelines set by the DVD forum and the MPEG group back when the specifications for the format were finalized, 720X480 is the highest resolution you can encode an NTSC DVD at and have it play back on any set-top player. I’ve provided a link to the MPEG-2 specifications- just scroll about halfway down the page to the section titled: “MPEG-2 on DVD.” This should help clear things up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

HD Guru · 07-10-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberry

Yeah- I can’t quite make out exactly what the author is getting at with the 852 number- I can’t imagine where he would get that number, but what I can tell you for sure is that NTSC compliant DVD video cannot contain more than 720 horizontal pixels under any circumstances. Anamorphic DVD’s are authored with the exact same pixel resolution that all other DVD’s are- the difference is that the full, widescreen frame is squeezed into a 4:3 space during encoding, and then stretched back out to 16:9 during playback- that’s really all it is. Anamorphic DVD’s are nothing new- they’ve been around since the launch of the DVD format.

But back to this 852 number- I have to say that I’m ashamed of the author of this article from ecoustics for throwing that out there. An ecoustics forum member even posted at the bottom of the page the article appears on and corrects him. The main thing, though, is that per the guidelines set by the DVD forum and the MPEG group back when the specifications for the format were finalized, 720X480 is the highest resolution you can encode an NTSC DVD at and have it play back on any set-top player. I’ve provided a link to the MPEG-2 specifications- just scroll about halfway down the page to the section titled: “MPEG-2 on DVD.” This should help clear things up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

That's not what that ecoustics article is saying. It's saying you need a display device with at least 852x480 (EDTV) native resolution to view DVDs properly since DVD resolution is below EDTV resolution but higher than SDTV resolution.

Sole_Survivor · 07-10-2005, 08:00 AM

I was thinking about what you said about keeping my tivo at 720, think you're right, if I kept it in 1080, that would be pumping 540 odd & then even, making my set as you kind of said .... do some figuring out or sorting.

To RSawdey,
I also got you're advice on the other thread about keeping it at 60 frames not at the 30 interlaced.
Keeping the box at over 700 lines progressive is how the TV operates, thanx, 720p it is.

I also heard that a standard TV is really 525 lines, but on a 525 TV, only 480 are being used on a 525 TV, 45 lines were being used for something else, the standard DVD were made for that ratio.

Were the DVDs really made 525x720 but for all practical purposes, the eyes are only seeing 480 so it's called 480x720?

If that be the case, if a DVD is played on a 720 or 1080 set, are we seeing the full 525?

No one has been able to give me an answer.

Also I saw this in the link you provided?

MPEG-2 on DVD
Additional restrictions and modifications of MPEG-2 on DVD are:

Resolution
720 × 480, 704 × 480, 352 × 480, 352 × 240 pixel (NTSC)
720 × 576, 704 × 576, 352 × 576, 352 × 288 pixel (PAL)
Aspect ratio
4:3
16:9

What is the 720 x 576?

What was the resolution of 480 analog tv, VCR, non digital cable?

strawberry · 07-10-2005, 11:53 AM

No- 720X480 is the resolution that the actual video files are encoded at to be put on the DVD. An analog NTSC TV does have 525 lines, 480 of which are visible, the remaining 45 are used for sync, vertical retrace, and captioning- they actually can't be used for video.

The 720X576 number you see is for PAL systems. PAL formats are used in Europe, Asia, Australia, and spotted around in a few other parts of the world. The U.S. uses the NTSC format. The main differences between the two are the frame size, which is noted, and the frame rates: 29.97 fps for NTSC, and 25 fps for PAL.

Sole_Survivor · 07-10-2005, 03:03 PM

You don't have any idea if this Sony LCD RP frame rate scans 60 or 30? I can't find that info anywhere.
I'm still wondering if the set will be scanning more pixels at 768p if I put the box back in 1080, I keep wondering if I'm using some artificial pixels if I keep it in 720.

Sole_Survivor · 07-10-2005, 03:49 PM

I just got an e mail, what I'm going to post here I just posted on another thread on thiis forum, I'm switching back to 1080i

I been hearing conflicting stories, if you have a 768p set, I'm hearing that if you keep your set top at 1080i, your set scales 1080 lines to a true 768p in contrast to having 720 go into it and it doubling certain lines to make up the 48.
The set was made to scale all signals to 768, I don't think the set is going to lose picture quality if it scales 1080i rather than 720, that has not been proven as far as I know, these sets were made to do that scaling work, it's configured to scale the CBS 1080 signal with the sets OTA HD tunner.
I noticed better resolution keeping it at 1080. Since 1080i has more pixels, your set is scaling all those pixels to a 768p format.
Pump as many pixels into the 768 set, 1080i has more pixels.

strawberry · 07-11-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sole_Survivor

I just got an e mail, what I'm going to post here I just posted on another thread on thiis forum, I'm switching back to 1080i

I been hearing conflicting stories, if you have a 768p set, I'm hearing that if you keep your set top at 1080i, your set scales 1080 lines to a true 768p in contrast to having 720 go into it and it doubling certain lines to make up the 48.
The set was made to scale all signals to 768, I don't think the set is going to lose picture quality if it scales 1080i rather than 720, that has not been proven as far as I know, these sets were made to do that scaling work, it's configured to scale the CBS 1080 signal with the sets OTA HD tunner.
I noticed better resolution keeping it at 1080. Since 1080i has more pixels, your set is scaling all those pixels to a 768p format.
Pump as many pixels into the 768 set, 1080i has more pixels.

The main thing here is that, if you really feel like you notice a difference by sticking with 1080i, then by all means do so. There's no reason why this should be the case- because 720p runs at 60 full frames per second, (whereas 1080i runs at 60 half-frames per second) 720p actually displays more pixels per second than 1080i, (which isn't really even 1080i as broadcast- it's actually just 1035 X 1440)

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/DTV_Bandwidths.htm

but the truth is that just about every HDTV is set up to do a very fine job of displaying either format, regardless of native resolution. You spent a lot of your hard earned money on the damn thing- set it up however you like it the best...

Here are a couple more resources you might find useful on the subject of the HD formats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p

Sole_Survivor · 07-11-2005, 04:03 PM

You the man.......
thanx again I'm going to read that in a few, but once I found out that my set converted the 1080i to its 768, I keep feeling it's a perfect fit, plus I get a better signal with the TV's built in HD tuner with the 1080i stations, CBS, better than FOX. So what it's doing in it's conversion does not seem to be hurting the resolution.
I'm going to read those links though, I'll get back.

Sole_Survivor · 07-11-2005, 05:06 PM

OK>>>>>>>>>
You're right,
I'm reading all over in the last hour that it takes
"at least 1280 X 768 to display HD at 720P"
probably why Sony chose the 768.

Back to 720p it bee!

RSawdey · 07-11-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sole_Survivor

You the man.......
thanx again I'm going to read that in a few, but once I found out that my set converted the 1080i to its 768, I keep feeling it's a perfect fit, plus I get a better signal with the TV's built in HD tuner with the 1080i stations, CBS, better than FOX. So what it's doing in it's conversion does not seem to be hurting the resolution.
I'm going to read those links though, I'll get back.

Your set MUST convert ALL input formats to 1366 x 768p/60, because that's the only format it can produce. The closer the input signal is to the output, the less work the format converter has to do...

Sole_Survivor · 07-12-2005, 08:48 AM

OK.....
Got it, I answered this on the other thread so the others can see it as well.
It's something to do with no additional scaling in 768.
That number was chosen for a reason, it seems to display a full 720p widescreen with no additional scaling.
The following is from some sources, the ad's of some TV, to chats, but it appears that 768 is made for the 720p signal.

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/s...-lc37hv6u.html
The 1366 x 768 native resolution means that no additional scaling or conversion is needed for widescreen images, resulting in crystal-clear 16:9 images with no digital artifacts.
Wide XGA (1366 x 768) Resolution
displays HDTV program images in 720p, true 16:9, and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts (separate HDTV tuner/decoder required to display HDTV broadcasts).

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/el...fullstory.html
Resolution is 1386 x 768, enough to catch every detail of DVD movies and 720p high-def (such as you find on ABC and ESPN). The Sony also displays more common 1080i resolution, but has to re-scale it to fit the available pixels. This is still the highest resolution rear-projection model we found (aside from Mitsubishi's $15,000 LCoS model).

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sterid=1238468
Description:The 26HL83 has a panel resolution of 720p (1280 x 768) and a contrast ratio of 500:1. If you demand and appreciate "True HD" video quality, you'll be happy to know this model boasts full 720p resolution.

http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=8
a new 16:9 HD Monitor LCD TV featuring 720P (1366x768) True HD panel resolution and dual HDMI digital inputs

07-10-2005, 03:55 AM	#16
strawberry HD is the Lord. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 1,635	Yeah- I can’t quite make out exactly what the author is getting at with the 852 number- I can’t imagine where he would get that number, but what I can tell you for sure is that NTSC compliant DVD video cannot contain more than 720 horizontal pixels under any circumstances. Anamorphic DVD’s are authored with the exact same pixel resolution that all other DVD’s are- the difference is that the full, widescreen frame is squeezed into a 4:3 space during encoding, and then stretched back out to 16:9 during playback- that’s really all it is. Anamorphic DVD’s are nothing new- they’ve been around since the launch of the DVD format. But back to this 852 number- I have to say that I’m ashamed of the author of this article from ecoustics for throwing that out there. An ecoustics forum member even posted at the bottom of the page the article appears on and corrects him. The main thing, though, is that per the guidelines set by the DVD forum and the MPEG group back when the specifications for the format were finalized, 720X480 is the highest resolution you can encode an NTSC DVD at and have it play back on any set-top player. I’ve provided a link to the MPEG-2 specifications- just scroll about halfway down the page to the section titled: “MPEG-2 on DVD.” This should help clear things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2 __________________ Home Theater Setup ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV Denon 2807 AVR 7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System Toshiba HD-A1 PS3 60 Gig Xbox 360 Premium Moxi BMC 9022 DVR Logitech Harmony 880 Last edited by strawberry; 07-10-2005 at 04:00 AM.

07-10-2005, 08:00 AM	#18
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	I was thinking about what you said about keeping my tivo at 720, think you're right, if I kept it in 1080, that would be pumping 540 odd & then even, making my set as you kind of said .... do some figuring out or sorting. To RSawdey, I also got you're advice on the other thread about keeping it at 60 frames not at the 30 interlaced. Keeping the box at over 700 lines progressive is how the TV operates, thanx, 720p it is. I also heard that a standard TV is really 525 lines, but on a 525 TV, only 480 are being used on a 525 TV, 45 lines were being used for something else, the standard DVD were made for that ratio. Were the DVDs really made 525x720 but for all practical purposes, the eyes are only seeing 480 so it's called 480x720? If that be the case, if a DVD is played on a 720 or 1080 set, are we seeing the full 525? No one has been able to give me an answer. Also I saw this in the link you provided? MPEG-2 on DVD Additional restrictions and modifications of MPEG-2 on DVD are: Resolution 720 × 480, 704 × 480, 352 × 480, 352 × 240 pixel (NTSC) 720 × 576, 704 × 576, 352 × 576, 352 × 288 pixel (PAL) Aspect ratio 4:3 16:9 What is the 720 x 576? What was the resolution of 480 analog tv, VCR, non digital cable? Last edited by Sole_Survivor; 07-10-2005 at 08:10 AM.

07-10-2005, 11:53 AM	#19
strawberry HD is the Lord. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 1,635	No- 720X480 is the resolution that the actual video files are encoded at to be put on the DVD. An analog NTSC TV does have 525 lines, 480 of which are visible, the remaining 45 are used for sync, vertical retrace, and captioning- they actually can't be used for video. The 720X576 number you see is for PAL systems. PAL formats are used in Europe, Asia, Australia, and spotted around in a few other parts of the world. The U.S. uses the NTSC format. The main differences between the two are the frame size, which is noted, and the frame rates: 29.97 fps for NTSC, and 25 fps for PAL. __________________ Home Theater Setup ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV Denon 2807 AVR 7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System Toshiba HD-A1 PS3 60 Gig Xbox 360 Premium Moxi BMC 9022 DVR Logitech Harmony 880

07-10-2005, 03:03 PM	#20
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	You don't have any idea if this Sony LCD RP frame rate scans 60 or 30? I can't find that info anywhere. I'm still wondering if the set will be scanning more pixels at 768p if I put the box back in 1080, I keep wondering if I'm using some artificial pixels if I keep it in 720. Last edited by Sole_Survivor; 07-10-2005 at 03:06 PM.

07-10-2005, 03:49 PM	#21
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	I just got an e mail, what I'm going to post here I just posted on another thread on thiis forum, I'm switching back to 1080i I been hearing conflicting stories, if you have a 768p set, I'm hearing that if you keep your set top at 1080i, your set scales 1080 lines to a true 768p in contrast to having 720 go into it and it doubling certain lines to make up the 48. The set was made to scale all signals to 768, I don't think the set is going to lose picture quality if it scales 1080i rather than 720, that has not been proven as far as I know, these sets were made to do that scaling work, it's configured to scale the CBS 1080 signal with the sets OTA HD tunner. I noticed better resolution keeping it at 1080. Since 1080i has more pixels, your set is scaling all those pixels to a 768p format. Pump as many pixels into the 768 set, 1080i has more pixels. Last edited by Sole_Survivor; 07-10-2005 at 04:16 PM.

07-11-2005, 04:03 PM	#23
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	You the man....... thanx again I'm going to read that in a few, but once I found out that my set converted the 1080i to its 768, I keep feeling it's a perfect fit, plus I get a better signal with the TV's built in HD tuner with the 1080i stations, CBS, better than FOX. So what it's doing in it's conversion does not seem to be hurting the resolution. I'm going to read those links though, I'll get back.

07-11-2005, 05:06 PM	#24
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	OK>>>>>>>>> You're right, I'm reading all over in the last hour that it takes "at least 1280 X 768 to display HD at 720P" probably why Sony chose the 768. Back to 720p it bee! Last edited by Sole_Survivor; 07-11-2005 at 05:13 PM.

07-12-2005, 08:48 AM	#26
Sole_Survivor Sole Survivor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 41 Posts: 119	OK..... Got it, I answered this on the other thread so the others can see it as well. It's something to do with no additional scaling in 768. That number was chosen for a reason, it seems to display a full 720p widescreen with no additional scaling. The following is from some sources, the ad's of some TV, to chats, but it appears that 768 is made for the 720p signal. http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/s...-lc37hv6u.html The 1366 x 768 native resolution means that no additional scaling or conversion is needed for widescreen images, resulting in crystal-clear 16:9 images with no digital artifacts. Wide XGA (1366 x 768) Resolution displays HDTV program images in 720p, true 16:9, and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts (separate HDTV tuner/decoder required to display HDTV broadcasts). http://www.consumersearch.com/www/el...fullstory.html Resolution is 1386 x 768, enough to catch every detail of DVD movies and 720p high-def (such as you find on ABC and ESPN). The Sony also displays more common 1080i resolution, but has to re-scale it to fit the available pixels. This is still the highest resolution rear-projection model we found (aside from Mitsubishi's $15,000 LCoS model). http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sterid=1238468 Description:The 26HL83 has a panel resolution of 720p (1280 x 768) and a contrast ratio of 500:1. If you demand and appreciate "True HD" video quality, you'll be happy to know this model boasts full 720p resolution. http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=8 a new 16:9 HD Monitor LCD TV featuring 720P (1366x768) True HD panel resolution and dual HDMI digital inputs Last edited by Sole_Survivor; 07-12-2005 at 09:00 AM.

Similar Threads to Blue Ray may not be worth it for it for me.
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bill Hunt Responds To the Paramount/Dreamworks News:	Lee Stewart	High Definition Media	66	08-21-2007 07:07 PM