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Oppo S83 review

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Old 05-18-2009, 03:48 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe View Post
Why I believe it is so confusing is because of the fact that I'm using only HDMI OUT and also asking the player to do multichannel PCM decoding for TrueHD, which is normally associated with the multiple RCA/analog route...



Yes, I've been told the same thing, that the player will just "treat" the speakers as large when HDMI is being used, but I couldn't get a straight answer on this -- not even from Panasonic's tech help.

But here comes another series of questions then...if the sizes don't matter when using HDMI in the player, how does it "know" to just send the decoded TrueHD over with no manipulation or "double processing"? And should the speaker VALUES in the 10A be set to "0.0" across the board?
Sent over HDMI will not effect those settings IMO. Those are for the analog outputs that you are NOT using. I just said to set the player to large "just in case" and 0.0 distance for all channels. If you cannot get a straight answer from Panasonic I sure do not have a definitive answer.

I do know you do not want TWO devices doing the same thing because results would be unpredictable if that happened.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:57 PM   #182
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The possibility that TWO devices are handling processing together at the same time is EXACTLY what concerns me.

Damn...I wish I had a player that just bitstreamed these codecs and didn't worry about speaker sizes, distances, etc...
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:08 PM   #183
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The possibility that TWO devices are handling processing together at the same time is EXACTLY what concerns me.

Damn...I wish I had a player that just bitstreamed these codecs and didn't worry about speaker sizes, distances, etc...
While you are free to worry about anything you want, this is not a problem that should concern you at all. These moderately priced players are incapable of processing the PCM output. They merely decode the track into PCM and send that off to a receiver for processing. If they do any processing, it means the player is broken.

Very expensive players such as the Denon 3800BDCI allow for player processing and the risk of double-dipping. But, the software in the moderately priced players doesn't have that functionality for digital transmission.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:12 PM   #184
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it can be simple..like turning the 120 refresh rate and the 24 on.. but then there are people that do not like the 120 refresh rate and stuff like that.. then it turns into a debate.. for me I like both.

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Old 05-18-2009, 05:32 PM   #185
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it can be simple..like turning the 120 refresh rate and the 24 on.. but then there are people that do not like the 120 refresh rate and stuff like that.. then it turns into a debate.. for me I like both.

Jacob
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:51 PM   #186
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While you are free to worry about anything you want, this is not a problem that should concern you at all. These moderately priced players are incapable of processing the PCM output. They merely decode the track into PCM and send that off to a receiver for processing. If they do any processing, it means the player is broken.
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While you are free to worry about anything you want, this is not a problem that should concern you at all.
I believe it is indeed something to warrant concern and/or worry, and I will explain it to you below:

Curious; this is something I haven't heard before, and wish I did for if true, it would explain a great many things...

You say these "inexpensive players are incapable of processing the PCM output," but I don't know if that's 100-percent accurate because what if a player is connected via analog...that speaker setup menu is there to "process" the audio being decoded internally by the player, is it not? Before it gets sent to a receiver, it needs to be processed because it's being transcoded into multichannel PCM over analog, isn't it? Why would these speaker setup menus be available at all in a player then?

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Very expensive players such as the Denon 3800BDCI allow for player processing and the risk of double-dipping. But, the software in the moderately priced players doesn't have that functionality for digital transmission.
Oh -- you are referring strictly to DIGITAL transmission, not analog?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:54 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
it can be simple..like turning the 120 refresh rate and the 24 on.. but then there are people that do not like the 120 refresh rate and stuff like that.. then it turns into a debate.. for me I like both.

Jacob
I indeed like that 120 "effect" many LCD displays give -- turning the film into a surreal, video "soap opera" look...I think Blu-rays are absolutely jaw dropping in this kind of mode.

As I have said before, I saw a Samsung LCD demo and they were running The Dark Knight on it, and that refresh feature must have been on because it had that deep, surreal "delay" look to it, as if the characters were superimposed on the screen -- it was awesome. My rear pro display doesn't look anything like that with 1080p material.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:37 PM   #188
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I believe it is indeed something to warrant concern and/or worry, and I will explain it to you below:

Curious; this is something I haven't heard before, and wish I did for if true, it would explain a great many things...

You say these "inexpensive players are incapable of processing the PCM output," but I don't know if that's 100-percent accurate because what if a player is connected via analog...that speaker setup menu is there to "process" the audio being decoded internally by the player, is it not? Before it gets sent to a receiver, it needs to be processed because it's being transcoded into multichannel PCM over analog, isn't it? Why would these speaker setup menus be available at all in a player then?

Oh -- you are referring strictly to DIGITAL transmission, not analog?
Yes. I am referring to PCM (digital) transmission, the kind you plan to use. The player handles the analog outputs differently. It needs to do bass management and distance adjustments prior to the digital-analog conversion. But, none of that happens with digital transmission.

If you really want to confirm this (rather than just worry about it), take a look at the manuals for players that do not have multichannel analog outputs. You won't find any speaker configuration settings.

(btw, there's no "transcoding into multichannel PCM over analog". PCM is digital and cannot be sent over an analog connection. The player decodes the track into PCM and runs it through DACs to create analog audio. That's what gets sent over the analog cables. PCM can only be sent over digital connections.)

Last edited by BIslander; 05-18-2009 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:42 PM   #189
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Thank you for more of the clarification...

So, nothing is happening when the decoded PCM audio is being sent over HDMI? The decoded signal is just being sent "as is" to the receiver for processing?

In a Panasonic BD10A thread over at AVS Forum some time back, there was a post by someone who seemed to know a great deal about this deck and he claimed even over digital transmissions via HDMI, there is some kind of "affect" this player has on the decoded signals -- therefore that speaker setup menu MUST be set correctly...
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:44 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
(btw, there's no "transcoding into multichannel PCM over analog". PCM is digital and cannot be sent over an analog connection. The player decodes the track into PCM and runs it through DACs to create analog audio. That's what gets sent over the analog cables. PCM can only be sent over digital connections.)
Yes -- I know and understand that; I was mistaken for calling and referring to it as "transcoding"...my apologies.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:57 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe View Post
In a Panasonic BD10A thread over at AVS Forum some time back, there was a post by someone who seemed to know a great deal about this deck and he claimed even over digital transmissions via HDMI, there is some kind of "affect" this player has on the decoded signals -- therefore that speaker setup menu MUST be set correctly...
Beats me. The BD10A is a first generation player. Maybe it was design flaw with that player. Or maybe the poster was simply mistaken.

Regardless, I can assure you, the speaker settings are only used with analog, not digital. But, if you set speakers to large, outputs to 0db, and equal distances, then you won't have a problem anyway.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:04 PM   #192
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Regardless, I can assure you, the speaker settings are only used with analog, not digital. But, if you set speakers to large, outputs to 0db, and equal distances, then you won't have a problem anyway.
Thank you...

Can I ask you a couple more things? Indeed, I do have the speakers set to LARGE in that setup menu, and the values are set to 0.0dB across the board (and 0.0mm), but why is it that these settings need to be made (assuming the player IS doing something to the signal) in order for the decoded PCM to pass "unaltered" to the receiver/processor? Why LARGE and "0.0"?

Further, if the signal is passing as you say, direct with no manipulation from the player because it's a DIGITAL HDMI connection, then is the multichannel PCM TrueHD signal (or Uncompressed PCM) just feeding right to my receiver, where the receiver takes over distances, calibration values, etc?
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:12 PM   #193
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Thank you...

Can I ask you a couple more things? Indeed, I do have the speakers set to LARGE in that setup menu, and the values are set to 0.0dB across the board (and 0.0mm), but why is it that these settings need to be made (assuming the player IS doing something to the signal) in order for the decoded PCM to pass "unaltered" to the receiver/processor? Why LARGE and "0.0"?
There's no need. I only mentioned that because you seem so concerned about it. You can set the speaker configurations any way you want and it won't make a bit of difference with digital transmission.

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Further, if the signal is passing as you say, direct with no manipulation from the player because it's a DIGITAL HDMI connection, then is the multichannel PCM TrueHD signal (or Uncompressed PCM) just feeding right to my receiver, where the receiver takes over distances, calibration values, etc?
Yep. With digital, all processing happens in the AVR. The player merely handles the decoding. Of course, it's no longer a TrueHD or dts-MA signal. Once decoded, it's just PCM.

Last edited by BIslander; 05-18-2009 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:21 PM   #194
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There's no need. I only mentioned that because you seem so concerned about it. You can set the speaker configurations any way you want and it won't make a bit of difference with digital transmission.
The reason why I ask all this is because I'm constantly having these discussions with other Panasonic and BD10/A owners on other forums and in private e-mails, etc; there seems to be no logical concensus for this...

I understand what you're saying regarding the fact that the DIGITAL transmission is allowing it to have "no effect" but what I'm asking is why the suggestion of leaving them all on LARGE and settings to 0.0 even if it won't make a difference? Why those suggested settings "just to make sure"?

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Yep. With digital, all processing happens in the AVR. Player merely handles the decoding. Of course, it's no longer a TrueHD or dts-MA signal. Once decoded, it's just PCM.
So -- with decoded PCM from the player, we're no longer hearing or experiencing a TrueHD track? It's actually changed -- so we're not hearing what's supposed to be on the disc?

This is not something I was steeped in when coming off my past as a DVD reviewer; the new codecs and their transmissions and manipulations within devices have been a conflicting and utterly contradicting experience depending on who you talk to. As I do high def reviews now for multiple sources/employers, the varying degrees of information, knowledge and "correct" equipment setup has lead to issues that continue to rear their ugly heads. I'm working now with multiple factions to try and get a handle on what's going on with my personal non-bitstreamable gear and how the pieces are affecting the auditory delivery.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:57 PM   #195
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The reason why I ask all this is because I'm constantly having these discussions with other Panasonic and BD10/A owners on other forums and in private e-mails, etc; there seems to be no logical concensus for this...

I understand what you're saying regarding the fact that the DIGITAL transmission is allowing it to have "no effect" but what I'm asking is why the suggestion of leaving them all on LARGE and settings to 0.0 even if it won't make a difference? Why those suggested settings "just to make sure"?
Sorry, but I think you need to communicate with people who are better informed about how consumer electronics actually work. I don't know what else to say.

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So -- with decoded PCM from the player, we're no longer hearing or experiencing a TrueHD track? It's actually changed -- so we're not hearing what's supposed to be on the disc?
Peter - I think you need to do more homework and less posting. PCM is the real thing. TrueHD and all the other encoded soundtracks are not. TrueHD is really just a zip file used to save space. Multichannel PCM tracks are very large. So, they are compressed using a variety of codecs - DD 5.1, DTS, TrueHD, dts-MA. Encoded tracks cannot be played any more than zip files can be read. TrueHD must be decoded (unzipped) back into PCM. TrueHD is lossless, meaning the PCM that comes out at the end is identical to the PCM that went into the encoder at the beginning. TrueHD doesn't alter the original audio in any way.

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This is not something I was steeped in when coming off my past as a DVD reviewer; the new codecs and their transmissions and manipulations within devices have been a conflicting and utterly contradicting experience depending on who you talk to.
This is not rocket science. There's no confusion about how this stuff works. It's actually pretty simple. Again, I suspect you are talking to the wrong people.

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As I do high def reviews now for multiple sources/employers, the varying degrees of information, knowledge and "correct" equipment setup has lead to issues that continue to rear their ugly heads.
If you do reviews, you really need to understand this stuff. I chuckle (and then ignore the rest of the review) when I see someone write about how much better one player bitstreams than another. That is not possible and statements like those merely expose the lack of understanding by the reviewer.
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