Blu-ray HD Audio Vs. Non-HD Audio...is there a difference??

linuxdog · 01-28-2009, 02:24 PM

OK....what is the actual difference between blu-ray HD Audio (DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD etc...) and Non-HD Audio (regular DTS, Dolby Digital, etc...)?? I was debating about upgrading my current receiver (that allows 1080p pass-through but no HD Audio) with a new receiver that will broadcast the various HD audio formats out there. I went to a few stores to try and compare HD-audio with non HD-audio and I could not really tell much of a difference. Is it really worth it to upgrade?? Or since my blu-ray players (Sony Blu-Ray and PS3) decode that audio, is my receiver already broadcasting the HD audio formats?? And I have searched other threads but I still could not find a direct answer....any help would be appreciated...

**PFC5** · 01-28-2009, 05:05 PM

Welcome to the forum!

What model receiver do you have now?
What model Sony BD player do you have?
Does the receiver have HDMI inputs?
Does that Sony BD player have 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?
What brand/model speakers are you using?

These questions need to be answered to know if you can get the HD audio now with your present equipment. If you can, they you can try them in your own home setup where you are more likely to appreciate it than a store with poor placement, poor configuration, etc to limit if you can even hear a difference. I know I can hear a difference, but with a low end receiver and particularly low end speakers, it will be much harder to hear any difference IMO.

Hope this helps!

sopranocaponyc · 01-28-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxdog

OK....what is the actual difference between blu-ray HD Audio (DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD etc...) and Non-HD Audio (regular DTS, Dolby Digital, etc...)?? I was debating about upgrading my current receiver (that allows 1080p pass-through but no HD Audio) with a new receiver that will broadcast the various HD audio formats out there. I went to a few stores to try and compare HD-audio with non HD-audio and I could not really tell much of a difference. Is it really worth it to upgrade?? Or since my blu-ray players (Sony Blu-Ray and PS3) decode that audio, is my receiver already broadcasting the HD audio formats?? And I have searched other threads but I still could not find a direct answer....any help would be appreciated...

there is a big difernce,Going Blind with out knowing what setup you have this is what i think.

If You have a receiver thats does'nt have Hd audio.but has HDmi you could still get HD audio as long as your blu-ray player decodes the hd audios.again it helps if we know what your setup is.Also its hard to tell in the stores cause most off the time nothing is setup right.

BIslander · 01-29-2009, 02:51 PM

Lossless formats sound great, most would say they're quite a bit better than the legacy DD 5.1 and DTS codecs on regular DVDs. But, when it comes to Blu-ray, it's a different story. Legacy DD 5.1 and DTS are less compressed (encoded at higher bit rates) on Blu-ray than you get on DVD. In my experience, one that appears to be shared by many others, these higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless.

Loves2Watch · 01-29-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

In my experience, one that appears to be shared by many others, these higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless.

I would agree with that as well.

linuxdog · 02-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Here is my current setup that is in question:

- Sony BDP-S300 (Latest firmware to allow HD Audio decoding (Dolby, DTS)
- Playstation 3
- Harman Kardon AVR-247
- Harman Kardon HTKS-15 5.1 speaker setup
- Tivo HD
- Samsung (LN52A860) 52 inch TV
- Panamax m4300-PM Surge Protector

Now would I be better off upgrading my receiver and blu-ray? Or keep what I currently have? If the audio is not much different, I would like to keep what I have. And if I upgraded I would be going with the Onkyo 706 series receiver and the Samsung BD-P2500 blu-ray player.

emacs · 02-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

In my experience, one that appears to be shared by many others, these higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless.

hmm ... i'm curious in what context are you using the word "quality"? thanks.

**PFC5** · 02-03-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emacs

hmm ... i'm curious in what context are you using the word "quality"? thanks.

He means that the higher end lossy audio formats that are on BD like DD+/DTS-HD HR that have higher bitrates than the standard DD/DTS codecs, are much better and unless you have higher end gear you will not hear much more improvement going the next step up to lossless for most people. It is a case of diminishing returns as you move up in higher bitrates and the difference drops to lower levels of improvement after some point.

I agree with this BTW. Some will think the difference is bigger but likely it is just that certain codecs or soundtracks are recorded at different levels so some sound louder than others but if you equalize the volume level output more people would have trouble telling the HD lossy encodes from the HD lossless encodes.

car421 · 02-03-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

He means that the higher end lossy audio formats that are on BD like DD+/DTS-HD HR that have higher bitrates than the standard DD/DTS codecs, are much better and unless you have higher end gear you will not hear much more improvement going the next step up to lossless for most people. It is a case of diminishing returns as you move up in higher bitrates and the difference drops to lower levels of improvement after some point.

I agree with this BTW. Some will think the difference is bigger but likely it is just that certain codecs or soundtracks are recorded at different levels so some sound louder than others but if you equalize the volume level output more people would have trouble telling the HD lossy encodes from the HD lossless encodes.

So based on this my older sony receiver which does not decode and my sony s350 ,which does also not decode, I most likely will not be able to notice any difference? I am also currently only using the front and center speakers as I have no place to mount rears.(long open familyroom/kitchen combo)
I am also looking at the sony ct100 soundbar that many people are happy with. The soundbar also does not decode.

HD Goofnut · 02-03-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car421

So based on this my older sony receiver which does not decode and my sony s350 ,which does also not decode, I most likely will not be able to notice any difference? I am also currently only using the front and center speakers as I have no place to mount rears.(long open familyroom/kitchen combo)
I am also looking at the sony ct100 soundbar that many people are happy with. The soundbar also does not decode.

Why not mount your surrounds into the ceiling?

**PFC5** · 02-03-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car421

So based on this my older sony receiver which does not decode and my sony s350 ,which does also not decode, I most likely will not be able to notice any difference? I am also currently only using the front and center speakers as I have no place to mount rears.(long open familyroom/kitchen combo)
I am also looking at the sony ct100 soundbar that many people are happy with. The soundbar also does not decode.

I assume your older Sony receiver does not have an HDMI input on it, so no HD audio currently with your setup unfortunately. You will still get some better sound with BD discs, since even standard DD is at a bitrate of 640kbps instead of SD DVD bitrate of 448kbps. You will also get DTS at 1.5mbps with the BD discs, but some SD DVD also have that bitrate for standard DTS.

Overall, you will likely get somewhat better sound with BD, but without rear surrounds you will still be missing part of the sound. If you have a continuous wall from behind the place where the receiver is, you could always just run the wire for both rear surrounds around the baseboard on that side that has continuous walls to the rear and wire them that way. Nothing says you must run each on opposing sides, so you just run the extra length for the other speak on a little longer cable to reach the other side.

It willlikely sound much better than any sound bar and give you true surround sound that envelopes you.

BIslander · 02-03-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emacs

hmm ... i'm curious in what context are you using the word "quality"? thanks.

By quality, I mean does one sound better than another.

My post was actually about the legacy codecs (DD and DTS) which are encoded at higher bitrates on BD than you get on DVD. DD 5.1 is 640kbps on BD, but limited to 448kbps on DVD. The DTS core is usually 1509kbps on BD, compared to 754 or 768kbps most of the time on DVD.

The higher bitrates mean less compression and these lossy codecs, which can be handled by most older AVRs, sound very good. In my experience (on my equipment, in my room), the higher bitrate legacy codecs sound about as good as lossless. ymmv

StanDaMan · 02-03-2009, 04:26 PM

Wow it took a while to read through this thread. But it was really helpful

I'm new to this forum. but I love it.

emacs · 02-05-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

In my experience (on my equipment, in my room), the higher bitrate legacy codecs sound about as good as lossless.

ok. maybe i'm just not reading posts properly (it has happened before). that said, however, when i read

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

... these higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless

from post Blu-ray HD Audio Vs. Non-HD Audio...is there a difference?? what jumps out to me is the sentence fragment: "higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless.". in other words, high bitrate lossy is better than lossless? how is this possible when lossless is supposedly bit-for-bit identical to the master?

**PFC5** · 02-05-2009, 03:08 PM

He doesn't mean it sounds better with the lossy so yes you ARE reading it wrong.

It just means the difference is not that great with the high bit-rate lossy encodes like it is with the low bit-rate lossy encodes.

01-28-2009, 02:24 PM	#1
linuxdog My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Blu-ray HD Audio Vs. Non-HD Audio...is there a difference?? OK....what is the actual difference between blu-ray HD Audio (DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD etc...) and Non-HD Audio (regular DTS, Dolby Digital, etc...)?? I was debating about upgrading my current receiver (that allows 1080p pass-through but no HD Audio) with a new receiver that will broadcast the various HD audio formats out there. I went to a few stores to try and compare HD-audio with non HD-audio and I could not really tell much of a difference. Is it really worth it to upgrade?? Or since my blu-ray players (Sony Blu-Ray and PS3) decode that audio, is my receiver already broadcasting the HD audio formats?? And I have searched other threads but I still could not find a direct answer....any help would be appreciated...

01-28-2009, 05:05 PM	#2
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,402	Welcome to the forum! What model receiver do you have now? What model Sony BD player do you have? Does the receiver have HDMI inputs? Does that Sony BD player have 5.1/7.1 analog outputs? What brand/model speakers are you using? These questions need to be answered to know if you can get the HD audio now with your present equipment. If you can, they you can try them in your own home setup where you are more likely to appreciate it than a store with poor placement, poor configuration, etc to limit if you can even hear a difference. I know I can hear a difference, but with a low end receiver and particularly low end speakers, it will be much harder to hear any difference IMO. Hope this helps! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

02-05-2009, 03:08 PM	#15
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,402	He doesn't mean it sounds better with the lossy so yes you ARE reading it wrong. It just means the difference is not that great with the high bit-rate lossy encodes like it is with the low bit-rate lossy encodes. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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01-29-2009, 02:51 PM	#4
BIslander Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA Posts: 574	Lossless formats sound great, most would say they're quite a bit better than the legacy DD 5.1 and DTS codecs on regular DVDs. But, when it comes to Blu-ray, it's a different story. Legacy DD 5.1 and DTS are less compressed (encoded at higher bit rates) on Blu-ray than you get on DVD. In my experience, one that appears to be shared by many others, these higher bit rate lossy encodes on Blu-ray rival the quality of lossless.

02-01-2009, 07:14 PM	#6
linuxdog My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Here is my current setup that is in question: - Sony BDP-S300 (Latest firmware to allow HD Audio decoding (Dolby, DTS) - Playstation 3 - Harman Kardon AVR-247 - Harman Kardon HTKS-15 5.1 speaker setup - Tivo HD - Samsung (LN52A860) 52 inch TV - Panamax m4300-PM Surge Protector Now would I be better off upgrading my receiver and blu-ray? Or keep what I currently have? If the audio is not much different, I would like to keep what I have. And if I upgraded I would be going with the Onkyo 706 series receiver and the Samsung BD-P2500 blu-ray player.

02-03-2009, 04:26 PM	#13
StanDaMan High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 39	Wow it took a while to read through this thread. But it was really helpful I'm new to this forum. but I love it.