Lossless Audio: Analog or HDMI?

Jim Bob Jones

Has anyone done a comparison of whether the lossless audio soundtracks sound different (better or worse) when being piped throught the analog vis a vis the HDMI jack? Your thoughts welcomed.

Loves2Watch

They are pretty much the same except you get better bass management control when using HDMI and letting the receiver do the decoding.

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Anthem, Conrad Johnson, Dish Network/JVC, Dynaudio, Infinity, Integra, JL Audio, Klipsch, Magnepan, Marantz, Martin Logan, Onkyo, Oppo, Outlaw Audio, Panasonic, Paradigm, REL, Sumiko, SVSound, and Toshiba are the brands equipment I currently use. I have owned/used and tested equipment made by just about any manufacturer you can name.

sptrout

I have had both system configurations and although both sounded good, HDMI is a much easier road to travel. The main issue with analog AVR/Blu-ray configurations is bass management, or lack of.

Depending on your exact equipment, the bass management function may be handled by; 1) AVR (not likely for most), 2) Blu-ray Player (possible with newer models), or 3) neither one (very possible).

As you can probably guess, #3 is a very bad thing. That was my case when I was using a Denon 3300 AVR connected via 5.1 analog to a Samsung P1400. The P1400 only allows the user to set speaker "sizes" (small or large). Setting to large does nothing, setting to small sets the crossover to 100Hz for each speaker. There is no speaker distance setting capability, and more importantly, no 10-15dB LFE boost that is required and provided by a normal bass management system.

My first problem (this was over a year ago) was trying to figure out why I had no bass. After much research I figured out that I needed to increase the LFE channel 15 dB. After discovering that little landmine, I had to figure out how to increase the LFE channel on the analog LFE input only (not screw-up all the other inputs).

The Denon 3300 does have the capability of trimming levels on each input, but the manual does a very poor job of explaining how (your REALLY have to read between the line). After much trail and tribulation I was finally able to get the levels set. However, there is no way to get around the lack of speaker distance setting - - cannot be done.

After about a year using this equipment I replaced the 3300 with a Onkyo 805 and now I just bit stream everything from the P1400 to the 805 and let it do all the work. Life is good........

Sorry for the long story. 5.1/7.1 analog can work, you just have to be very careful that you know exactly what your equipment can and cannot do and be prepared to try to overcome anything that is missing.

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Samsung HL-S6188 TV
Onkyo 805 AVR
Samsung P1400 Blu-ray & Oppo 971 DVD Players
DTV HR20-700 DVR
Infinity Beta 50's Front with C360 Center Speakers
Hsu VTF MK 2 Subwoofer w/Turbo
Speaker Lab surrounds (3-way speakers with 12" woofer, with two horns)

gosman

I have a Denon AVR-5800 with only the audio in settings. So how did you come up with the bass increase settings on your Denon. Share your research please!

sptrout

I was afraid that someone would ask that question. Don’t you just love Denon’s Manuals? Actually, I was asked the same question on another board and I still have the same problem that I had then; I do not remember for sure. (To quote “Boston Legal” it must be the “mad cow thing.”)

Since the 3300 is now sitting in my closet, I have no way to duplicate what I used to do to backup what I am about to say, but here goes!

Section 10 in the 3300’s manual, called "Surround", describes (I think, you cannot tell by reading it) what you have to do to set the levels on an individual input basis. Note that you must first set the system levels using the internal settings as you probably have done many times in the past. If you then trim the individual input levels the master settings will still be fine. The Catch 22 is that if you adjust/trim the individual input levels then go back later for some reason to readjust any of the master settings, then your individual settings all go back to default. (You cannot believe how long it took me to realize this bomb!) One other comment before I discuss what I think I remember is that for some reason all 6 input levels of the 5.1 analog input were all factory set to be exactly 6dB lower than all the other inputs. (Another reason I chased my tail for a week trying to understand why analog sounded so much lower in level!)

Now…….First you must have the OSD on, and the channel in question (5.1 analog) selected. After pushing the “CH SELECT” button you should be able to see each speaker’s level all referenced to the master’s “reference level” typically “0” +/- a few dB. (These numbers should match the original master level settings; all inputs are all the same.) As I mentioned, in my case, all 5.1 channels were 6 dB below the master level settings. At this time you should be able to change all the channel levels up to the same level as the master settings (added 6dB in my case). Then I increased the LFE input 15dB more (because I had my speakers in the P1400 all set to small, if they had been set to large then 10dB would have been the magic number).

I hope that I have remembered correctly. This is the only way that I know to make the 3300’s analog input to have at least a minimal amount of bass management. I don’t know why, but I have a feeling that there are a lot of 5.1 analog users out there is HT land that are missing a bunch (technical term) of bass and not even know it!

Good luck!

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Samsung HL-S6188 TV
Onkyo 805 AVR
Samsung P1400 Blu-ray & Oppo 971 DVD Players
DTV HR20-700 DVR
Infinity Beta 50's Front with C360 Center Speakers
Hsu VTF MK 2 Subwoofer w/Turbo
Speaker Lab surrounds (3-way speakers with 12" woofer, with two horns)

Jim Bob Jones

Guys, thank you very much for your very informative and helpful responses.