Blu-Ray audio problems with non hdmi connection

**PFC5** · 11-17-2008, 02:20 PM

There is likely (it is part of the spec, but some do not offer this despite this) a setting in your receiver to add this 10db boost which is only for the analog inputs, so you can correct this problem that way. Another way is to use the individual speaker level adjustments in the player to lower (by 10db) all the other (non-LFE) channels if you have a receiver without this function/feature. It will just require that you turn the master volume higher to get the same output with this method.

Hope this helps!

mdlewis · 11-17-2008, 03:17 PM

Unfortunately I don't have an LFE sub, have two others inline with my front speakers, so I am relying on the S550 to do that in its bass management. Even if I did have an LFE sub to use my B&K does not have a means to increase the LFE analog inputs.

I am going to watch a few more discs and then decide whether bass output is acceptable or whether I need a new received.

mdlewis · 11-17-2008, 03:26 PM

Should have posted by specs earlier but I think I have them correct and have tried all the various combinations and permutations.

B&K Reference 30 Pre-amp
BDP-S550

Sony Audio settings
Audio Output Priority = Coaxil/Optical
HDMI = Auto
BD Audio = Direct
Audio ATT = Off
Dolby Digital = Dolby Digital
DTS = DTS
48kHz/96kHz PCM = 96/Hz/24 bit
Audio DRC = Wide Range
Downmix = Dolby Surround

I have spoken with B&K and they think this should work as the unit is supposed to decode the higher bit rate DD and DTS signals over Coax/Optical. That connection does work with my Toshiba A30 HD-DVD player...for what that info is worth.

Have tried it using DD HD discs and one DTS disc (Golden Compass).

As noted, the player works fine over Coax/Optical with DVD's.

Perhaps the S550 doesn't but out this signal as the docs suggest. I will dig out an older pre-amp I have to see how that works. Since the original poster mention the problem with a Panasonic player and the B&K I assume it is the B&K that has the problem.

WhatHappend · 11-17-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlewis

I am curious about the LFE reduction on analog. Does the same thing apply to DVD's played over the analog connection? This would mean that one would have to adjust the LFE setting for DVD's vs. Blu-Ray from the player if both are output on the analog outputs.

No adjustment necessary. DVD and Bluray levels would be the same. The LFE is encoded 10dB low for PCM, Dolby digital and DTS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlewis

Is my understanding correct that the LFE reduction also takes place if I have no LFE connected so am expecting that signal to be redirected to my two large front speakers which in fact do have two Vandersteen subs connected to them. I did some testing yesterday with Master and Commander and did feel that the Blu-Ray was bass shy compared to the DTS DVD over a coax connection.

The LFE will always be 10dB low if BM is off and -15dB low with BM on. Like I said before the player you have doesn't redirect LFE to any other channels. You will have to send the LFE output of the player to your pre-amp and have to pre-amp boost it by the correct amount and the the pre-amp would have to apply LFE redirection to your fronts.

I don't think it is likely that your pre-amp supports all of that. Apply that much processing to the analog inputs usually means the signal has to get A/D converted at the input of the pre-amp and all the filters/gains/combining happens on a DSP and then sent to the final D/A converters.

If you read that document I linked, it is not the job of a Dolby Digital decoder to mix LFE back to any other speaker. In fact for two channel down-mixing, the LFE signal is tossed. Even though Dolby doesn't mandate it, a lot of AVR and pre-amps do have options to route the LFE signal to large front speakers.

WhatHappend · 11-17-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdlewis

As noted, the player works fine over Coax/Optical with DVD's.

Perhaps the S550 doesn't but out this signal as the docs suggest. I will dig out an older pre-amp I have to see how that works. Since the original poster mention the problem with a Panasonic player and the B&K I assume it is the B&K that has the problem.

The 550 outputs DD and DTS from the Coax/Optical. The DD signal is just higher bit rate for Blurays than it was for DVDs. May others have used the 550 with optical and had no issues once they configured the same settings that you already have set up.

Maybe one of the HD-DVD experts here would be able to comment on what the typical DD5.1 data rate was on that format.

You should not be having any issues with DTS encoded Bluray discs over optical/coax. The core DTS bit rate for Bluray is the same as some DVDs were encoded at (1.536Mbps maximum).

mdlewis · 11-30-2008, 08:19 AM

Thanks again for the help. I added an LFE Sub (Velodyne SPL-1000R in my very small room) and my bass is back. Now the sound matches the picture improvement of BD over DVD.

For anyone with a B&K Reference 30 who might have the same curious lack of DD/DTS Bitstream support that my unit has with the BDP-S500...I say curious as B&K thinks it should work my setup is now:

1. Calibrate the analog outputs to 75 db or your target level. I used a combination of the Sub boost in the B&K and the volume control on sub to do this. This is for movies over the 5.1 analog connections. I save this setup as a pre-set as the sub boost (I used the buttons on the remote for this) is not stored with your regular input information and is erased with the unit is turned off or put in standby mode. Remember, this level will be higher than when using the internal tone generator.

2. I have rear speakers so I choose DVD-Audio and 6 for the speakers so the B&K applies matrix processing to generate a rear channel. This processing in DVD-Audio mode only applies to rears so the other channels are still only "passed through" with only main and supplemental volume control.

3. for other sources - CD, xBox, LD and HD players, I used the coax/optical connections. I use a combination of the lack of sub boost and Adjust LEF Level to reduce the level back to the "normal" level without the +10 or 15db boost required on the analog inputs. (as noted on this forum 10 if you set the speakers ALL to large in the SONY and 15db if any are small.).

4. I find the pre-sets hand for this sort of fine tuning and they are relatively easy to explain to my children. I expect that a remote Macro can do this as well.

5. In my case I am using a Zektor external switch to feed either the Blu-Ray player or my SACD player on the analog inputs. Naturally the SACD player needs a different pre-set.

Note: If you have Vandersteen, as I do, or other subs that are wired in-line with your front speakers you will not get good results on the analog connections as the BDP-S550 does not redirect, like a pre-amp, the LFE bass to the large speakers or if it does there doesn't seem to be any way to boost the LFE signal to get adequate bass. A good quick test track to use is the THX trailer. I like the new one on the new Indiana Jones. If you are not feeling the large mushrooms when they fire your bass is lacking. Comparing a DVD on a coax connection to the Blu-Ray on analog quickly convinced me that my two subs were not doing their usual great job on the analog outputs.

Naturally a new pre-amp that handles the hi-res audio signal over HDMI solves all this too.

Good luck.

chrisc1309 · 12-26-2008, 06:20 PM

[quote=WhatHappend;735926]Assuming you have a DMP BD35 or BD55 and are using a digital audio connection:

Try the following player settings:
"HDMI Audio Output" to "Off"?
"Dynamic Range Compression" to "Off"
"BD-Video Secondary Audio" to "Off"
"DTS/DTS-HD" to "Bitstream"
"Dolby D/Dolby D +/Dolby TrueHD" to "Bitstream"
"PCM Down Conversion" to "Off"
"Downmix" to "Surround encoded"

I just got a BD35 and I am hooking it up to an older Sony Receiver via optical connection. The receiver is an STR-DE635. Prior to the BD player I have enjoyed many DVDs in Dolby Digital. Now that I have the BD player hooked up and the settings sett as descrided above (and many other experimental ways) I get no sound. It seems that the only way I can get anything is when the setting are set to "PCM" rather than "Bitstream". When I set it to "PCM" it sounds just like a "normal" surrond sound DVD. I can tell the Dolby Digital Processor is not being used due to the nice Blue Lighton the front not being illuminated. Can someone please point me in the right direction to get the absolute best performance out of this BD player. I am soo excited to experience my first Blue Ray movie!

To help I have the BD-35 connected to my Panosonic 50 inch Plasma via HDMI and the optical cable connects the audio to my STR-DE635. I sicerly appreciate any help you pros can provide as this manual is not very helpful.

Thank you in advance,

Chris

**PFC5** · 12-27-2008, 01:36 AM

Many of the Sony receivers have not met the DD spec to accept standard DD up to 640kbps bitrate, so you are not alone with this issue when moving to a BD player. All the Dolby soundtracks will get sent as 640kbps over the optical connection and unfortunately if you own one of the Sony receiver models that cannot comply with the standard DD limit of 640kbps, then you either must buy a new receiver, or try to get Sony to fix the issue. I doubt Sony will fix a receiver out of warranty so that just leaves the former as the solution.

Try playing a Fox BD movie or a Universal BD movie since they use DTS-HD MA as the soundtrack and if this is heard over the optical you likely have one of those Sony receivers who didn't fully comply with the Dolby optical spec limit of 640kbps.

Hope this helps!

chrisc1309 · 12-28-2008, 06:38 PM

Thank you very much for the help. It appears that I do indeed need to upgrade mu receiver. I am thinking about the Sony 820. Any comments on that one?

sopranocaponyc · 12-28-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisc1309

Thank you very much for the help. It appears that I do indeed need to upgrade mu receiver. I am thinking about the Sony 820. Any comments on that one?

Its the best sony receiver out there i have it and love it. J and R music world has it for $299.Best buy its $399 but if your from the NY city area they will price match it.

Loves2Watch · 12-28-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisc1309

Thank you very much for the help. It appears that I do indeed need to upgrade mu receiver. I am thinking about the Sony 820. Any comments on that one?

Sony is NOT known for it's receivers and most any other brand like Denon, Harman Kardon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha would be a much better and reliable solution.

**PFC5** · 12-28-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisc1309

Thank you very much for the help. It appears that I do indeed need to upgrade mu receiver. I am thinking about the Sony 820. Any comments on that one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

Sony is NOT known for it's receivers and most any other brand like Denon, Harman Kardon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha would be a much better and reliable solution.

I agree with L2W. Why would you buy another receiver from the same company that didn't make your current player to meet the industry standard specs?

Any of those other brands L2W mentioned would be a better choice IMO.

chrisc1309 · 12-29-2008, 01:46 PM

Thats a great point PFC. Thanks for all the help guys. I am researching now and will report back.

11-17-2008, 02:20 PM	#31
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,410	There is likely (it is part of the spec, but some do not offer this despite this) a setting in your receiver to add this 10db boost which is only for the analog inputs, so you can correct this problem that way. Another way is to use the individual speaker level adjustments in the player to lower (by 10db) all the other (non-LFE) channels if you have a receiver without this function/feature. It will just require that you turn the master volume higher to get the same output with this method. Hope this helps! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

11-17-2008, 03:26 PM	#33
mdlewis My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 8	Should have posted by specs earlier but I think I have them correct and have tried all the various combinations and permutations. B&K Reference 30 Pre-amp BDP-S550 Sony Audio settings Audio Output Priority = Coaxil/Optical HDMI = Auto BD Audio = Direct Audio ATT = Off Dolby Digital = Dolby Digital DTS = DTS 48kHz/96kHz PCM = 96/Hz/24 bit Audio DRC = Wide Range Downmix = Dolby Surround I have spoken with B&K and they think this should work as the unit is supposed to decode the higher bit rate DD and DTS signals over Coax/Optical. That connection does work with my Toshiba A30 HD-DVD player...for what that info is worth. Have tried it using DD HD discs and one DTS disc (Golden Compass). As noted, the player works fine over Coax/Optical with DVD's. Perhaps the S550 doesn't but out this signal as the docs suggest. I will dig out an older pre-amp I have to see how that works. Since the original poster mention the problem with a Panasonic player and the B&K I assume it is the B&K that has the problem. Last edited by mdlewis; 11-17-2008 at 03:33 PM.

12-26-2008, 06:20 PM	#37
chrisc1309 What is HD? Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4	Optical Connection Help [quote=WhatHappend;735926]Assuming you have a DMP BD35 or BD55 and are using a digital audio connection: Try the following player settings: "HDMI Audio Output" to "Off"? "Dynamic Range Compression" to "Off" "BD-Video Secondary Audio" to "Off" "DTS/DTS-HD" to "Bitstream" "Dolby D/Dolby D +/Dolby TrueHD" to "Bitstream" "PCM Down Conversion" to "Off" "Downmix" to "Surround encoded" I just got a BD35 and I am hooking it up to an older Sony Receiver via optical connection. The receiver is an STR-DE635. Prior to the BD player I have enjoyed many DVDs in Dolby Digital. Now that I have the BD player hooked up and the settings sett as descrided above (and many other experimental ways) I get no sound. It seems that the only way I can get anything is when the setting are set to "PCM" rather than "Bitstream". When I set it to "PCM" it sounds just like a "normal" surrond sound DVD. I can tell the Dolby Digital Processor is not being used due to the nice Blue Lighton the front not being illuminated. Can someone please point me in the right direction to get the absolute best performance out of this BD player. I am soo excited to experience my first Blue Ray movie! To help I have the BD-35 connected to my Panosonic 50 inch Plasma via HDMI and the optical cable connects the audio to my STR-DE635. I sicerly appreciate any help you pros can provide as this manual is not very helpful. Thank you in advance, Chris

12-27-2008, 01:36 AM	#38
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,410	Many of the Sony receivers have not met the DD spec to accept standard DD up to 640kbps bitrate, so you are not alone with this issue when moving to a BD player. All the Dolby soundtracks will get sent as 640kbps over the optical connection and unfortunately if you own one of the Sony receiver models that cannot comply with the standard DD limit of 640kbps, then you either must buy a new receiver, or try to get Sony to fix the issue. I doubt Sony will fix a receiver out of warranty so that just leaves the former as the solution. Try playing a Fox BD movie or a Universal BD movie since they use DTS-HD MA as the soundtrack and if this is heard over the optical you likely have one of those Sony receivers who didn't fully comply with the Dolby optical spec limit of 640kbps. Hope this helps! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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11-17-2008, 03:17 PM	#32
mdlewis My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 8	Unfortunately I don't have an LFE sub, have two others inline with my front speakers, so I am relying on the S550 to do that in its bass management. Even if I did have an LFE sub to use my B&K does not have a means to increase the LFE analog inputs. I am going to watch a few more discs and then decide whether bass output is acceptable or whether I need a new received.

11-30-2008, 08:19 AM	#36
mdlewis My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 8	Thanks again for the help. I added an LFE Sub (Velodyne SPL-1000R in my very small room) and my bass is back. Now the sound matches the picture improvement of BD over DVD. For anyone with a B&K Reference 30 who might have the same curious lack of DD/DTS Bitstream support that my unit has with the BDP-S500...I say curious as B&K thinks it should work my setup is now: 1. Calibrate the analog outputs to 75 db or your target level. I used a combination of the Sub boost in the B&K and the volume control on sub to do this. This is for movies over the 5.1 analog connections. I save this setup as a pre-set as the sub boost (I used the buttons on the remote for this) is not stored with your regular input information and is erased with the unit is turned off or put in standby mode. Remember, this level will be higher than when using the internal tone generator. 2. I have rear speakers so I choose DVD-Audio and 6 for the speakers so the B&K applies matrix processing to generate a rear channel. This processing in DVD-Audio mode only applies to rears so the other channels are still only "passed through" with only main and supplemental volume control. 3. for other sources - CD, xBox, LD and HD players, I used the coax/optical connections. I use a combination of the lack of sub boost and Adjust LEF Level to reduce the level back to the "normal" level without the +10 or 15db boost required on the analog inputs. (as noted on this forum 10 if you set the speakers ALL to large in the SONY and 15db if any are small.). 4. I find the pre-sets hand for this sort of fine tuning and they are relatively easy to explain to my children. I expect that a remote Macro can do this as well. 5. In my case I am using a Zektor external switch to feed either the Blu-Ray player or my SACD player on the analog inputs. Naturally the SACD player needs a different pre-set. Note: If you have Vandersteen, as I do, or other subs that are wired in-line with your front speakers you will not get good results on the analog connections as the BDP-S550 does not redirect, like a pre-amp, the LFE bass to the large speakers or if it does there doesn't seem to be any way to boost the LFE signal to get adequate bass. A good quick test track to use is the THX trailer. I like the new one on the new Indiana Jones. If you are not feeling the large mushrooms when they fire your bass is lacking. Comparing a DVD on a coax connection to the Blu-Ray on analog quickly convinced me that my two subs were not doing their usual great job on the analog outputs. Naturally a new pre-amp that handles the hi-res audio signal over HDMI solves all this too. Good luck.

12-28-2008, 06:38 PM	#39
chrisc1309 What is HD? Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4	Thank you very much for the help. It appears that I do indeed need to upgrade mu receiver. I am thinking about the Sony 820. Any comments on that one?

12-29-2008, 01:46 PM	#43
chrisc1309 What is HD? Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4	Thats a great point PFC. Thanks for all the help guys. I am researching now and will report back.