Blu-Ray audio problems with non hdmi connection

WhatHappend

Hold on...

So you are running 6 RCA cables from the player to your pre-amp? If so, you want the player to decode the audio to a 5.1 analog signal.

Using digital optical connection for the audio would be much easier if you are not a technical person. Your BD30 player doesn't decode the TRUEHD, DD+, DTS HD HR or DTS HD MA to analog like the BD50 or the newer BD35 and BD55, so I wouldn't mess around with analog audio (RCA cables).

Assuming you want analog (only benefit with 5.1 RCA audio connection would be for bluray discs that have PCM sound tracks), then have you setup your speaker configuration in the player? When you run the speaker test tone from the player does it cycle through all of your speakers? Your pre-amp should be on analog direct mode so it should show analog on the display no Dolby Pro-logic. With analog connections you don't see DD5.1 or DTS5.1 on your pre-amp display.

mdlewis

I am having the same trouble with my Model 30 and a Sony BDP-S550. I get on Dolby Digital sound on either a COAX or Toslink connection with BluRay discs. No problem with DVD's.

The pre-amp is not recognizing the DD bitstream.

WhatHappend

What??? You said you get Dolby Digital on COAX or Toslink then you said it doesn't recognize DD bitstream??? If the pre-amp didn't recognize the bitsteam, you would get either silence or random sounding noise. Is this what you are getting?

Please clarify. How does DTS from Bluray work?

mdlewis

Sorry if I was not clear. I get only silence on DD on COAX and Toslink from BluRay discs. I don't have a DTS disc to try yet. DVD's do work fine. I will track down a DTS BluRay disc and report on that.

My pre-amp shows the link as Pro-Logic and never flips over to DD even though I do get the menu sounds from one movie, the 5th element.

I have switched over to 5.1 analog cables and it sound great. My pre-amp does 5.1 analog but not 7.1. I have a Zektor switch on order so I can plug my SACD player back in for multi-channel sound.

WhatHappend

Thanks for replying, now the issue is clear. If the OP also failed to report that he has silence with DD over a digital connection, then I think this issue is with your B&K pre-amp/processor. Below is a thread link that explains the issue with a certain SONY line of receivers. The basic issue would be that your processor doesn't handle 640kbps DD signal that bluray uses. The 640K should work on all licensed DD products. If I bought a high-end product like you guys, I would be mad and be calling the manufacture.
PS3/Blu-Ray Audio Problem w/Sony Receiver

Both of you can uses the multi-channel audio output of your players. You will need to bump the subwoofer channel of the pre-amp by 10db if you have all speakers set to large or 15dB if you have some speakers set to small on your player (this is to compensate to all LFE tracks being 10dB low in the source to allow extra-headroom for massive low frequency content.) You can use a calibration disc with a DD calibration tone and a SPL meter to get your levels correct. The SONY 550 decodes all the new loss-less HD audio formats, so multi-channel analog is the best way to use that player with a legacy audio system.

mdlewis

Thanks. I have it working on the analog channels, and yes I am not happy with B&K on this<g>, and will explore boosting the bass. I have two Vandersteen subs in-line with my front speakers. That means front and center as full range with sides as small. My rears are full range but only come into the mix via the B&K processing of the side signals. Sounds good so far and 7 speakers are better than 5. No LFE sub in use right now.

So far on Master and Commander, Fifth Element, Batman Begins, and Gattaca I have liked the sound but have not gone back to compare it to my DVD copies yet to see what the difference might me.

WhatHappend

The 550 will not redirect the LFE channel to the large speakers for its outputs. Did you connect the LFE analog output to your B&K? Does you B&K do BM over its analog inputs?

mdlewis

Ah how unfortunate. That would explain why I was not blow away.

I will have to check and see if the B&K does bass management over the analog inputs. There may be a way to trick into doing that....all this to avoid buying a new pre-amp! Whew...

Loves2Watch

You forgot to mention DTS via optical and coaxial digital audio..

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WhatHappend

I didn't forget to mention them. I was responding to your question above about optical and coax not being able to support LPCM in more than two channels. (see your question about is just about PCM/LPCM).

wvradicalman

If you use bitstream, you are asking the receiver to do the decoding and not using the internal decoders of the player.

There have been a lot of complaints (Panasonic and others) that the sound output from the analog outs is not the same as HDMI, that it is much weaker, particularly in regards to the subwoofer output. Read Al Griffin's review of the Panny 55 in this month's Sound & Vision. He addresses these issues.

The upshot is that if you want to get Dolby TrueHD, etc, you will have to use analog outs and compensate by adjusting the channel out put on your receiver, if that is possible.

Rad B

WhatHappend

That is normal and part of the spec. The LFE analog output should be -10dB low with BM off and -15dB low with BM on (any speaker set to small in the player). That is to allow for the head-room for the extra bass content of the soundtrack.

I have told the above posters' that analog is the only way to get loss-less without a HDMI audio connection and about the sub-woofer boosting necessary when using analog connections.

Here is proof about the 15dB gain needed with BM.
http://www.beussery.com/pdf/beussery.dolby.pdf
(Figure 3-2 shows the +15db boost required when bass management is engaged.)

And this quote shows the 10dB required for the non-BM case (from linked doc).Now all of that said, if your preamp doesn't allow the 10 or 15dB boost for the subwoofer channel, you can always use your player's speaker level setup and reduce all the level for all the non-subwoofer channels by 10/15dB. This is not idea because you are sending lower levels so some sonic quality will be lost but it will be infinitely better then not hearing the proper LFE and Bass content of the sound tracks.

WhatHappend

Are you talking about this comment he made?
I understand every-day home theater guys not understanding the required sub-woofers level adjustments needed, but a reviewer should have known better and applied the 10 or 15dB adjustments to his pre-amp based on his player's BM setup. And any reviewer should have had a calibration Bluray disc and they all have DD5.1 test tones he could have used with quality SPL meter to tweak his levels. There is no excuse for a professional audio video writer to write what he did about lack of test tone making his setup non-ideal. Test tone's availability in the player are needed for the average Joe not professionals.

Someone should tell Al Griffin to read my post above, so he doesn't look dumb in the future reviews.

PFC5

I agree that someone like this pro reviewer should have known and note simply that the receiver needs the 10db or 15db adjustment for the LFE if analog in/outputs are used.

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mdlewis

I am curious about the LFE reduction on analog. Does the same thing apply to DVD's played over the analog connection? This would mean that one would have to adjust the LFE setting for DVD's vs. Blu-Ray from the player if both are output on the analog outputs.

Is my understanding correct that the LFE reduction also takes place if I have no LFE connected so am expecting that signal to be redirected to my two large front speakers which in fact do have two Vandersteen subs connected to them. I did some testing yesterday with Master and Commander and did feel that the Blu-Ray was bass shy compared to the DTS DVD over a coax connection.

They really are making it hard for me to stick with the analog outputs.....