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Old 05-12-2009, 04:07 AM   #31
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I should add there are plenty of AV receivers that don't clip video using HDMI as well so the player can be connected to an AV receiver without issue.

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Old 05-12-2009, 12:18 PM   #32
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HDMI audio & video should not be an issue running through the receiver if the receiver works properly, since it is a digital signal.

Besides, HDMI is the only way to bitstream HD audio so that doesn't leave much choice either. Sure if the player decodes it and you have a BD player with 5.1/7.1 analog outputs, you can get the HD audio that way and just send the HDMI to the display, but many want the 1 cable solution and the receiver HDMI switching this connection would allow.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
Peter, I am not talking about HDMI when it isn't properly implemented and as far as I know HDMI clipping video isn't a requirement.
What do you mean by "requirement"? It's not "mandated" that the HDMI spec must pass video sans clipping or video resolution loss?

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Just buy a player that doesn't, there should be plenty of information regarding any player by the time you buy one.
I'm not referring to the player clipping any information, I'm talking about at the receiver when video is passed through from one HDMI out of a source deck...

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If you need analog audio, research that. Oppo handles that quite well with their fifth universal SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V/CD player focusing on audio, including analog audio. If you don't need analog audio and can use HDMI for audio, that is my preference and recommendation.
I would be using strictly HDMI OUT for audio and video transfer from a source deck, as I am now, but concerned that the receiver, as the passing link to the display, may be causing some of the noise and artifact issues that's plaguing my (mainly) DVD playback on the Panny BD10A; would you still recommend the Oppo for my needs, being that I don't need analog audio out?

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This Pioneer player does not clip video and handles analog audio for Blu-ray and handles audio over HDMI for those that have HDMI audio processing.

Chris
So, it's more in line with the $2K Denon?
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:16 PM   #34
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HDMI audio & video should not be an issue running through the receiver if the receiver works properly, since it is a digital signal.
Thanks for the reassurances, PFC; indeed, I have heard this theory too from Onkyo '605 owners on countless pages of other enthusiast sites, that the unit should not be clipping any video. I do see "1080p" as the incoming resolution on my display when the Blu-ray player is on and passing video, so the resolution is there, but I'm worried that the receiver may be adding some of these horrible artifacts I'm seeing during DVD upconversion...and perhaps some of the "not so sharp looking" BD titles, too...

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Besides, HDMI is the only way to bitstream HD audio so that doesn't leave much choice either.
Right...I bought the '605 with the strict intentions of letting the receiver decode the new formats, but learned after I bought the BD10A that the player didn't send the new formats bitstream...

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Sure if the player decodes it and you have a BD player with 5.1/7.1 analog outputs, you can get the HD audio that way and just send the HDMI to the display, but many want the 1 cable solution and the receiver HDMI switching this connection would allow.
Right. But decoded multichannel PCM of the new formats can be sent over HDMI as well as analog, no? It would still require one cable, but...
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:27 PM   #35
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Thanks for the reassurances, PFC; indeed, I have heard this theory too from Onkyo '605 owners on countless pages of other enthusiast sites, that the unit should not be clipping any video. I do see "1080p" as the incoming resolution on my display when the Blu-ray player is on and passing video, so the resolution is there, but I'm worried that the receiver may be adding some of these horrible artifacts I'm seeing during DVD upconversion...and perhaps some of the "not so sharp looking" BD titles, too...
The easiest way to KNOW if the receiver is harming the picture is to try going directly to the display with HDMI and run an optical cable for standard audio and play back some of your BDs with PQ issues to see if they are any different going directly to the display for the video. Then you no longer have to guess if there is an issue. If there is a negative difference going through the receiver then call Onkyo and they may have a firmware update to resolve it.

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Right...I bought the '605 with the strict intentions of letting the receiver decode the new formats, but learned after I bought the BD10A that the player didn't send the new formats bitstream...
Understood.

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Right. But decoded multichannel PCM of the new formats can be sent over HDMI as well as analog, no? It would still require one cable, but...
It can, but then you must run the video through the receiver and you are concerned it might be causing the PQ issues you have.

See above for how to check if it is an issue with the receiver screwing up the PQ or not.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:37 PM   #36
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I'll do that when I can.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:55 PM   #37
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I believe HDMI works great for audio and video is the reason I believe it is best, there is no downside that I am aware of. Whether the player decodes and outputs PCM or the player bitstreams over HDMI is of less importance. The advanced lossless audio codecs work great if the player decodes and outputs analog for those that don't have HDMI audio processing and don't want to acquire that yet. That is why the Oppo has analog output.

I didn't say you needed to be a millionaire to buy the Oppo, only that if you are, go ahead and buy the best and not worry about saving a couple hundred dollars. If you are somewhere between poor and a millionaire, the decision isn't as simple since $200 might be a big issue.

Chris
I know many people with ultra high end stystems that use the anolog outs because of processing capability of the player; such as the BDP-09 with the Wolfoson DAC's.

It is incorrect to say that the analog outs are purely for those that do not have HDMI compatible equipment. The DAC's in the 09 contribute a great deal to the price of the player.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:25 PM   #38
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Just to reinforce my point:

"However, sending audio over HDMI from this player would negate one of the major advantages of it: a full complement of 8 Wolfson 8740 DACs operating in Dual mode, one of every channel, which allows you to control all of the audio settings in the player: Speaker distances, size and crossover, and level adjustment while using the high quality DACís which are used in Pioneerís Elite SC-05 and SC-07 receivers, as well as many other high end audio products. Since the Pioneer can internally decode all of the new audio formats (Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio) and perform all of these speaker level adjustments over the multi-channel outputs, and has higher quality DACs than most receivers and processors, I did most of my evaluation using the analog audio connections instead of the single HDMI cable, but the HDMI outputs were tested for audio as well."

From:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-r...w.html?start=1
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:38 PM   #39
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Point taken!
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOSHOSHO View Post
I know many people with ultra high end stystems that use the anolog outs because of processing capability of the player; such as the BDP-09 with the Wolfoson DAC's.

It is incorrect to say that the analog outs are purely for those that do not have HDMI compatible equipment. The DAC's in the 09 contribute a great deal to the price of the player.
I understand it contributes to the price but I sure wouldn't recommend sending analog audio to a receiver with HDMI input, even with this player. I can't imagine somebody would own this player with a cheap AV Receiver that uses poor DAC's. I believe this player only makes sense for owners of high quality older receivers without HDMI. I am sure it is a great choice for receivers without HDMI if the price isn't a problem.

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Old 05-19-2009, 07:32 AM   #41
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I use my analog outs with a 94TXH receiver. Sound characterisitics are different. Neither is "better".
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