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Old 08-10-2008, 08:57 PM   #1
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Default Wait a Minute, Wait a Minute...Do I Have This Hooked Up Right?

My Panasonic 'BD10A player is going ONLY HDMI out for audio and video transfer for Blu-ray and DVD to my Onkyo '605's HDMI IN, and then a second HDMI connection is being made from the Onkyo's HDMI OUT to my Sony SXRD display's HDMI IN...

Those are the only connections being made between components -- inside the player's SETUP menu, I have selected, under DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT setup (HDMI) BITSTREAM for everything but DOLBY DIGITAL PLUS/TRUEHD because the player can't bitstream these signals and they must be decoded internally and sent as PCM to my receiver...

Now, under the player's SPEAKER SETTINGS page, I have that set to MULTI-CHANNEL, and then a second page opens up that asks me to set speaker sizes and distances, delays, etc. -- normally, this would be set at the receiver, but since PCM audio is going over HDMI in my setup, something is affected here at this speaker settings page -- I was told over at AVS to leave ALL speakers on the '10A's multichannel speaker setup on LARGE so that the PCM tracks can pass "as is" and my receiver can take over bass management tasks; they also told me to leave all delay and channel trims at ZERO on the Panasonic's speaker setup page so they don't affect the receiver's channel settings, etc...

Is this correct? Because I am only leaving TrueHD audio set to PCM output on the player, does this mean the "multichannel speaker settings" menu on the Panasonic must be adjusted by leaving all speakers on LARGE so the PCM tracks can pass properly? Under DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT, I have these parameters set:

DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION: OFF
BD FUNCTION SOUND: OFF
PCM DOWNCONVERSION: OFF
DOLBY DIGITAL: BITSTREAM
DOLBY DIGITAL PLUS/TRUEHD: PCM
DTS: BITSTREAM
DTS-HD: BITSTREAM (because "Master Audio" DTS tracks are affected by this setting, and sound better as the core DTS track bitstreamed...)


Are these set correctly, too?
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:30 AM   #2
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the multichannel setting in the bluray player is for analog, not for HDMI.. if you are using the 5.1 anlogs then you set those.

you have the HDMI set up correctly.
and HDMI is a better setup anyways. I would not worry about the analog thing.
Jacob
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
the multichannel setting in the bluray player is for analog, not for HDMI.. if you are using the 5.1 anlogs then you set those.

you have the HDMI set up correctly.
and HDMI is a better setup anyways. I would not worry about the analog thing.
Jacob
Jacob,

Actually, that is not entirely accurate -- the Multichannel setting in the player controls audio over HDMI also when it's handling MULTICHANNEL PCM signals...so SOMETHING must be adjusted here for PCM tracks to pass correctly. Lee Bailey at AVS told me that the speakers in the Panasonic's setup menu need to ALL BE LARGE so the bass management of the player is bypassed and my receiver can handle it all from there (for multichannel PCM audio).

P.S. Why does your information under your username only indicate ONE post from you? I know you have posted more times than that here...
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:37 PM   #4
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I had trouble getting the e-mail for the sign up to work.. we mostly talked in PM..
its true that the setting should be set to large on the speaker part.
if you are using HDMI.. you are better off.

Jacob
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
I had trouble getting the e-mail for the sign up to work.. we mostly talked in PM..
its true that the setting should be set to large on the speaker part.
if you are using HDMI.. you are better off.

Jacob
Now you're really confusing me...I don't know what you're referring to with regards to the "e mail for the sign up to work" and now you're saying the speaker setting SHOULD be on large, so it DOES affect HDMI output, correct? You first said it has nothing to do with HDMI, now it does?
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:23 PM   #6
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to sign up for this site. you have to use an e-mail to get the e-mail to sign up for the site. .its a pain in the ass.. however for some reason I when I sent for the e-mail.. I never got the e-mail to sign up.. or whatever.. that is a seprate issue with the site and has nothing to do with the HDMI problem.

you confuse everything together.. its not.

I have my player set to bitstream. I use HDMI.. it works fine.

I think you have two problems.. one is the player and the other is being too close to the tv set that we had discussed ealier. the other problem could be the calibration settings. which is very confusing if you do not know what you are looking for..

about the settings on the receiver for the sound.. ignore what I said about the 6 and the 8.. just use the settings that the audessy test does. you should be fine.

Jacob
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
to sign up for this site. you have to use an e-mail to get the e-mail to sign up for the site. .its a pain in the ass.. however for some reason I when I sent for the e-mail.. I never got the e-mail to sign up.. or whatever.. that is a seprate issue with the site and has nothing to do with the HDMI problem.

you confuse everything together.. its not.
Do you read how you post things?

Quote:
I have my player set to bitstream. I use HDMI.. it works fine.
But if you want Dolby TrueHD, you need to set MY player to "PCM" for this type of output because it WILL NOT transmit TrueHD as BITSTREAM -- by setting TrueHD to bitstream on MY player, all that does is send the "embedded" Dolby Digital track from a TrueHD track...this is how it works on my '10A player, and there's no way around that...I HAVE to keep my TrueHD setting on PCM so the PLAYER can decode these tracks as multichannel PCM...

Quote:
I think you have two problems.. one is the player and the other is being too close to the tv set that we had discussed ealier. the other problem could be the calibration settings. which is very confusing if you do not know what you are looking for..
I can't do anything about where I sit in relation to my TV for now -- I simply can't because of my apartment's layout -- but perhaps this can be changed when we move.

Quote:
about the settings on the receiver for the sound.. ignore what I said about the 6 and the 8.. just use the settings that the audessy test does. you should be fine.
I'm not getting good results from Audyssey because of the strange layout of my room...plus, the system is pegging my bookshelf monitors as LARGE full size, and that ain't true. I will stick to "+6" for all channels and "+8" for center.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:21 PM   #8
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I have the panansonic 30 player.. which I heard was a much better player then the 10A.. I know that some people complain about the upconversion. its actually pretty good with it. probably something wrong with the settings. I am talking with just people in general, not you.

I am using an HDMI switcher.. which has a really good picture and sound too. that helps.
I know that you are trying to learn the home theatre stuff. but some of your set ways are getting in the away of things.. need to be open to other ideas. to get a better workout from your system. I know some stuff, but my brother he knows more stuff about it.. I always ask him stuff and helps me set it up better.

Jacob
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
I have the panansonic 30 player.. which I heard was a much better player then the 10A..
Yes, I've heard this too...it's just that when I was in the market for a Blu-ray player, the 10A was the one on the market (well, from Panasonic, that is) so I was stuck with it. Supposedly, the BD30 and BD50 are BOTH better in Blu-ray performance over my 10A...BUT, if you read my thread on the recent issue of Home Theater and their comparison they did of three new Blu-ray players, it seems the Panasonic 50 STILL doesn't have it right with DVD upconversion, which leads me to this:

Quote:
I know that some people complain about the upconversion. its actually pretty good with it. probably something wrong with the settings. I am talking with just people in general, not you.
"Some people"? Did you not read the clip of the Home Theater Magazine article I provided in my other thread? Respected journalist Kris Deering claimed the BD50's DVD upconversion was quite poor -- he even mentioned that he recommended using a separate DVD player if using the Panasonic for Blu-ray discs...this to me indicates Panasonic Blu-ray players still SUCK for DVD upconversion...

Quote:
I am using an HDMI switcher.. which has a really good picture and sound too. that helps.
...but I'm not even using any switcher -- I am going cleanly from HDMI OUT of the BD player to HDMI IN of the 605...then HDMI OUT from the 605 to HDMI IN of the Sony display...

Quote:
I know that you are trying to learn the home theatre stuff. but some of your set ways are getting in the away of things.. need to be open to other ideas. to get a better workout from your system. I know some stuff, but my brother he knows more stuff about it.. I always ask him stuff and helps me set it up better.
It's not that some of my "set ways" are "getting in the way of things" really; it's really that my receiver has not shut down, hiccuped, popped or ANYTHING since using these "+6" settings which was even recommended to you direct from Jennifer at Onkyo; I'm not getting the "dropouts" you mentioned even using my IntelliVolume on "+10dB" and using the "+6" settings, etc.

Can you address my questions about setting Dolby TrueHD to PCM on my 10A player? You said you leave everything on BITSTREAM -- but on your BD30, does it do bitstreaming of TrueHD and Master Audio? If it does, which I think it does, then that's why you're okay leaving TrueHD on BITSTREAM -- my 10A cannot bitstream TrueHD so I need to keep it on "PCM" for TrueHD output and thus the 10A decodes it internally...now, with that scenario, how should the speaker settings on the 10A be set under the "Multichannel" speaker menu? All to LARGE? Are you sure this is correct?

Last edited by Peter Marlowe; 08-11-2008 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:28 PM   #10
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the panasonic 30 can only bitstream the trueHD and DTS MA. it cann't use PCM like the 10A.. the pan 50 can do both the internal and bistream of trueHD and DTS MA. I use PCM on my ps3. since the ps3 is not able to do bitstream.
I talked with someone that had an review of the panasonic 50. he said that the PQ was about the same with the 30.. he said that the 50 was a bit faster.. but then the 30 got a new update to make it load up faster they are about the same speed with loading up. the 50 has the BD live is the 30 does not have. I can use the BD live on my ps3.. I am not really missing much with that.

I leave my players settings in multichannel with large. I have no idea about yours. have you called panasonic about your questions?
panasonic has done alot of work on making improvements on the panasonic 30 with some of the tech problems. its a much better player now then when I first had gotten it.

Jacob
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rubystone1111 View Post
the panasonic 30 can only bitstream the trueHD and DTS MA. it cann't use PCM like the 10A.. the pan 50 can do both the internal and bistream of trueHD and DTS MA. I use PCM on my ps3. since the ps3 is not able to do bitstream.
...okay...so THAT'S why you use bitstream exclusively...that makes more sense. My 10A cannot bitstream TrueHD, so wouldn't you recommend setting TrueHD to PCM in MY case? And if so, are THESE parameters set up right for sending the PCM tracks over to my receiver correctly? :

PCM DOWNCONVERSION: OFF
DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION: OFF
BD VIDEO SOUND: OFF
DOLBY DIGITAL, DTS, DTS-HD: BITSTREAM
DOLBY TRUEHD: PCM

SPEAKER SETUP:
ALL CHANNELS SET TO "LARGE" AND ALL DISTANCES AND LEVELS SET AT "0" OR "0.0"


Would this be correct to get the multichannel PCM over to my receiver properly from the 10A?

Quote:
I talked with someone that had an review of the panasonic 50. he said that the PQ was about the same with the 30.. he said that the 50 was a bit faster.. but then the 30 got a new update to make it load up faster they are about the same speed with loading up. the 50 has the BD live is the 30 does not have. I can use the BD live on my ps3.. I am not really missing much with that.
This is what Kris Deering of HOME THEATER magazine said in the September issue:

"Blu-ray playback looked excellent and in line with the best players I've seen. The notable exception to this is the Denon '3800, which looked a tad crisper than the Panasonic -- however, the 'BD50 resolves 1080p content's full resolution with no obvious softening or chroma filtering. Thanks to the new chroma processing, color fidelity is noticeably better than Panasonic's first-generation player."

"Unfortunately, the DMP-BD50 falls short in its standard DVD playback. I hoped Panasonic would improve in this area after the 'BD30, but it appears to be the same."


Quote:
I leave my players settings in multichannel with large. I have no idea about yours. have you called panasonic about your questions?
panasonic has done alot of work on making improvements on the panasonic 30 with some of the tech problems. its a much better player now then when I first had gotten it.
Why would you worry about multichannel settings when you leave all yours on BITSTREAM? Isn't that all ignored when you're sending DIGITAL BITSTREAM DATA over an HDMI cable?
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe View Post
...okay...so THAT'S why you use bitstream exclusively...that makes more sense. My 10A cannot bitstream TrueHD, so wouldn't you recommend setting TrueHD to PCM in MY case? And if so, are THESE parameters set up right for sending the PCM tracks over to my receiver correctly? :

PCM DOWNCONVERSION: OFF
DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION: OFF
BD VIDEO SOUND: OFF
DOLBY DIGITAL, DTS, DTS-HD: BITSTREAM
DOLBY TRUEHD: PCM

SPEAKER SETUP:
ALL CHANNELS SET TO "LARGE" AND ALL DISTANCES AND LEVELS SET AT "0" OR "0.0"


Would this be correct to get the multichannel PCM over to my receiver properly from the 10A?



This is what Kris Deering of HOME THEATER magazine said in the September issue:

"Blu-ray playback looked excellent and in line with the best players I've seen. The notable exception to this is the Denon '3800, which looked a tad crisper than the Panasonic -- however, the 'BD50 resolves 1080p content's full resolution with no obvious softening or chroma filtering. Thanks to the new chroma processing, color fidelity is noticeably better than Panasonic's first-generation player."

"Unfortunately, the DMP-BD50 falls short in its standard DVD playback. I hoped Panasonic would improve in this area after the 'BD30, but it appears to be the same."




Why would you worry about multichannel settings when you leave all yours on BITSTREAM? Isn't that all ignored when you're sending DIGITAL BITSTREAM DATA over an HDMI cable?
Those settings at the top of the post are the correct settings IMO. By using them, you send the unaltered signal to your receiver to do the post processing (only over HDMI with nearly all receivers), and rely on the settings in RECEIVER for distance size, etc. If you use the analog outputs then most receivers will not apply any post processing for distance or speaker size which is WHY those settings are there to adjust.

The settings only apply to decoding soundtracks and if you change it to bitstream, you will be sending the raw signal to the receiver to decode. Those settings have no bearings on the use of bitstream, and are only used for the decoded soundtracks in the player.

You are fine with those settings.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:40 PM   #13
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Those settings at the top of the post are the correct settings IMO. By using them, you send the unaltered signal to your receiver to do the post processing (only over HDMI with nearly all receivers), and rely on the settings in RECEIVER for distance size, etc. If you use the analog outputs then most receivers will not apply any post processing for distance or speaker size which is WHY those settings are there to adjust.
Thanks PFC; which settings do you mean -- leaving the SPEAKER SIZES in the PLAYER set to "LARGE" for all of them? Curious though; you say only analog outputs make receivers "ignore" post processing, etc., but I am using my receiver's MULTICHANNEL sound mode when playing PCM tracks from my Blu ray player...would the receiver then automatically be ignoring bass management, processing, etc. because I have it set to engage "MULTICHANNEL" listening mode? Is this the correct mode for these tracks, or should I use DIRECT (the only two choices available on my receiver for multichannel PCM)?

Quote:
The settings only apply to decoding soundtracks and if you change it to bitstream, you will be sending the raw signal to the receiver to decode. Those settings have no bearings on the use of bitstream, and are only used for the decoded soundtracks in the player.

You are fine with those settings.
Right, I know those settings affect decoded soundtracks -- THAT'S what I'm worried about...I have the player set to decode TrueHD internally as PCM, so I need to know what to set those speaker levels to in the PLAYER'S multichannel speaker setup...I DO have TrueHD output set to "PCM" so SOMETHING must be adjusted in that menu to make sure these tracks pass correctly -- AND uncompressed PCM mixes, too...
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe View Post
Thanks PFC; which settings do you mean -- leaving the SPEAKER SIZES in the PLAYER set to "LARGE" for all of them? Curious though; you say only analog outputs make receivers "ignore" post processing, etc., but I am using my receiver's MULTICHANNEL sound mode when playing PCM tracks from my Blu ray player...would the receiver then automatically be ignoring bass management, processing, etc. because I have it set to engage "MULTICHANNEL" listening mode? Is this the correct mode for these tracks, or should I use DIRECT (the only two choices available on my receiver for multichannel PCM)?
These are the correct settings, with the possible exception of the DTS-HD which I believe that the 10A can decode as DTS-HD HR (HiRes). This could be better than just standard DTS @ 1.5mbps which is what you get when you bitstream DTS-HD.

Quote:
PCM DOWNCONVERSION: OFF
DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION: OFF
BD VIDEO SOUND: OFF
DOLBY DIGITAL, DTS, DTS-HD: BITSTREAM
DOLBY TRUEHD: PCM

SPEAKER SETUP:
ALL CHANNELS SET TO "LARGE" AND ALL DISTANCES AND LEVELS SET AT "0" OR "0.0
"
Quote:
Right, I know those settings affect decoded soundtracks -- THAT'S what I'm worried about...I have the player set to decode TrueHD internally as PCM, so I need to know what to set those speaker levels to in the PLAYER'S multichannel speaker setup...I DO have TrueHD output set to "PCM" so SOMETHING must be adjusted in that menu to make sure these tracks pass correctly -- AND uncompressed PCM mixes, too...
See above answer for the settings from your previous posted settings question.

Most/all receivers AFAIK, cannot do post processing for bass management, matrixing a 5.1 signal to a 6.1/7.1 speaker configuration, or controlling the crossover point for the speaker settings, or the distance on the analog 5.1 inputs in the receiver etc. Those are to be used strictly with analog output, but you are using HDMI correct?

If you have an HDMI connection to the receiver the bass management (which speaker/sub handles LFE sounds, etc which is part of why you choose the speaker size), matrixing the additional speaker in a 6.1/7.1 speaker config if you have that, and adjusting the distance for the main seating position so the timing of the sounds are what is originally supposed to sound like with different settings other than equal speaker length apart for all speakers.
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For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:16 PM   #15
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bitstream means that the receiver is doing the sound, and pcm means that the bluray player is decoding the sound. most people will say that they will sound the same.. but some prefer to have the sound system receiver do it. that is why you got the reciever in the first place.

Jacob
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