Article: Five Reasons You Should NOT Buy A Blu-ray Player Yet

MidnightWatche · 02-05-2008, 10:57 PM

A good article with information that everybody needs to know. Considering a high-def player? Get HD DVD today and enjoy. Wait until Blu-ray gets their mess in order.

LINK

Quote:

With HD DVD looking more and more like it's on the ropes, it would seem like the ideal time to commit to Blu-ray--right? Not so fast. There are at least five reasons to stick with your good old-fashioned DVD player--at least for the next few months. (And, as always, there are some key caveats and insider secrets for those who can't resist pullling the trigger as soon as possible.)

1. Nearly all current Blu-ray players are obsolete: The Blu-ray standard is still evolving. Most models currently available use the original Profile 1.0 standard, while some newer models use Profile 1.1 (which adds the ability to show picture-in-picture commentaries). Later this year, the first Profile 2.0 players--which add the ability to deliver online special features (BD Live)--will become available. Ironically, both of these are designed to bring the Blu-ray standard in line with HD DVD players, which have long been able to deliver these features.

A couple of the most recent Blu-ray players (the combo players from Samsung and LG) can be updated from Profile 1.0 to 1.1 with a downloadable firmware update. But the PlayStation 3 is, supposedly, the only existing Blu-ray player that will be fully upgradeable to Profile 2.0. So if you don't want your Blu-ray player to be obsolete, the PS3 is your only choice until 2.0 models--such as the Panasonic DMP-BD50--hit later this year.

Caveat: Does anybody really watch those PiP-enabled commentaries? Or want updated trailers downloaded from the Web? Beyond the hardcore cinephiles, I think the answer is a big "no." In other words, if you're among the vast majority who only wants to watch the movie, you're not really gaining anything with a 1.1. or 2.0 player. Those older Blu-ray players should play everything else on the disc (the non-playable features are just grayed out on the menu). With the older players hitting the discount racks to make way for newer models, getting a Profile 1.0 player is a nice way to score a Blu-ray player on the cheap ($300 or less).

2. Blu-ray is best on a big-screen TV: Can you see the difference between standard DVD and Blu-ray? Yes--but it may not be as noticeable as you would think. Like all high-definition material, Blu-ray discs look their most-impressive at bigger screen sizes, where DVD can sometimes start to look a bit soft. Put another way: if your TV is 37 inches or smaller, you probably won't be getting a huge advantage from Blu-ray.

Caveat: Eagle-eyed videophiles--or those who sit especially close to their 1080p TVs--may well see a difference. Rule of thumb: if HDTV programming looks noticeably better than DVD playback on your TV, then Blu-ray will be a worthwhile investment.

3. There are still very few movies available on Blu-ray: As of February 5, 2008, there are less than 450 current Blu-ray titles available in North America (not counting discontinued and adult titles). That stacks up well to HD DVD (around 400). But it's a drop in the bucket compared to standard DVD, which has at least 90,000 titles available (including TV shows).

Caveat: Sure, it's small now, but the number of Blu-ray titles is growing slowly but surely. In fact, Blu-ray and HD DVD adoption (combined) has actually outpaced that of the original DVD format, which took three or four years before it really went mainstream.

4. Blu-ray still has growing pains: How many times have you popped a brand new DVD into your player, only to be greeted with a message that you need to update the firmware to view the movie? Probably never, but Blu-ray early adopters have faced this message more than they would like to admit. (To be fair, HD DVD has had its share of disc compatibility issues as well.) To make matters worse, many early Blu-ray players can't update via Ethernet, so you'll need to burn a CD to update the player. If you're reading Crave, burning a disc probably isn't a problem--but there are many less-tech-savvy people that love DVDs, but have no idea what an ISO file is.

5. Prices have nowhere to go but down: Even without competition from HD DVD, Blu-ray prices seem to be on a one-way ticket downward. Older players can be purchases for about $300, so don't be surprised to see Black Friday 2008 specials at $249 or $199. Caveat: See item number 1: the cheaper players are likely to be older models that are effectively "obsolete."

So there you have it: there's absolutely no compelling reason to dive into Blu-ray, at least for the next few months. But as with all of the items above, the conclusion comes with a big caveat of its own: the Sony PlayStation 3. It's the only player that's futureproof, it doubles as a top-notch game machine and network digital media streamer, and it's readily available for $400. Oh--it also happens to be a great Blu-ray player, and it does a fine job of upconverting your standard DVDs to high-definition resolutions. As such, it remains the exception to the rule, and the only Blu-ray player that we can enthusiastically recommend for the time being.

mshulman · 02-05-2008, 11:35 PM

Decent points. #5 is really the biggest reason out of them all I'd say. #1 would be second for me. I just think when you are spending that much on a player, it should do it all. Regardless of whether or not I'd use all the features, I want the option. I have tried out and used many of them. 300 and Transformers to name a few and they are pretty cool.

I think #3 is probably the only point that doesn't really work. 450 titles and growing is a decent selection.

**PFC5** · 02-06-2008, 12:32 AM

I would say although it IS about the BD players it should be in the general HD area so as not to inflame others.

STJERNHOLM · 02-06-2008, 07:36 AM

I do not agree on not to update yet.

BD or HDDVD is so much better than DVD, that even my halfblind grandmother can see the difference.

Even more important - the SOUND is in a other leauge.

Most user just want to watch the damn movie - all those extras, games, internet activity and stuff is not the most important. We got the internet for that - and a really good movie website does a much better job at providing interactive extras.

I agree on the annoyance that the blu-ray guys are still working on the spec.. that clearly sucks. Personally I have never really spend much time poking around the the internet enabled features of my HDDVD player.

A internet connection for firmware updates is great - but really.... No consumer product should ever need a Firmware update...ever! :-)

djbamber · 02-06-2008, 01:01 PM

I think that many of us that have purchased a Hi-Def large screen tv are looking for HD programming to play on them. I know that I sure am after spending a not so small sum of money. Having followed the Blu-ray/ HD DVD posts on Appleinsider for more than a year I decided that my future would be Blu! I bought a Panasonic BD-30 and have been very pleased with it. As far as the OP comments on waiting for prices to drop, then using the same analogy I should also have put off buying my 52 inch Sharp also I guess?

Loran1 · 02-06-2008, 03:37 PM

When I was a teenager back in the fifties my father was anti-technology. He fought our getting a B&W TV, saying, “Let’s wait until it’s perfected.” He held to this when color, UHF channels, larger screens, remote controls, and tape recorders/players came along. He died before HDTV became available.

If I had listened to him I would still be watching our old 12-1/2 inch B&W CRT box with all the limitations inherit of obsolete devices. And if I were to wait until HD players like Blu-ray are “perfected” I too would pass on before that ever happens. Well, with the number of years I have left I decided to buy a Blu-ray player now. And when, and if, it becomes obsolete as technology advances, I’ll just replace it.

mobiushky · 02-06-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loran1

When I was a teenager back in the fifties my father was anti-technology. He fought our getting a B&W TV, saying, “Let’s wait until it’s perfected.” He held to this when color, UHF channels, larger screens, remote controls, and tape recorders/players came along. He died before HDTV became available.

If I had listened to him I would still be watching our old 12-1/2 inch B&W CRT box with all the limitations inherit of obsolete devices. And if I were to wait until HD players like Blu-ray are “perfected” I too would pass on before that ever happens. Well, with the number of years I have left I decided to buy a Blu-ray player now. And when, and if, it becomes obsolete as technology advances, I’ll just replace it.

Don't worry Loran. The term "obsolete" is a misunderstanding. It just means that if a new disc has picture in picture commentary, a profile 1.0 player will not be able to show the picture in picture. But you'll still be able to watch the movie and hear the commentary. It's a good way to spend less on a player if you don't want the added fluff and just want the movie. If you want the fluff, you might be better waiting for a 2.0. But you are not going to have a dead player in a year. It's still going to play new movies.

Superman · 02-06-2008, 09:19 PM

I'm sorry, but some of these arguments could be made about HD DVD as well. For example, the point on noticeable difference from DVD. HD DVD outputs the same resolution, so the same must be said of it. However, I've never seen HD on a TV smaller than 37", so I cant comment. But HD, on any format, looks great on my 42". I have my doubts that SD and HD would be indistinguishable on a 37" TV, although I agree not quite as dramatic.

And I'm sorry, but HD DVD requires FW updates too. What gives HD DVD the advantage is the requirement of the ethernet port. And that is a reason to consider HD DVD. Most HD content is going to require some form of FW upgrade in the future. Just look at our satellite boxes. That's just the way it will be. Even if optical media goes away, hard drives will require FW updates too, because they will be running an OS and therefore need updating as new features, fixes, etc. come out.

Get used to it.

**PFC5** · 02-07-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

I'm sorry, but some of these arguments could be made about HD DVD as well. For example, the point on noticeable difference from DVD. HD DVD outputs the same resolution, so the same must be said of it. However, I've never seen HD on a TV smaller than 37", so I cant comment. But HD, on any format, looks great on my 42". I have my doubts that SD and HD would be indistinguishable on a 37" TV, although I agree not quite as dramatic.

And I'm sorry, but HD DVD requires FW updates too. What gives HD DVD the advantage is the requirement of the ethernet port. And that is a reason to consider HD DVD. Most HD content is going to require some form of FW upgrade in the future. Just look at our satellite boxes. That's just the way it will be. Even if optical media goes away, hard drives will require FW updates too, because they will be running an OS and therefore need updating as new features, fixes, etc. come out.

Get used to it.

+1000

One thing that has caused me to pause about mass market for EITHER format is the DRM updates that BOTH formats will require to appease the studios.

Someone a month ago pointed out that some of these updates so far, and a lot of the future updates will be to update the encrypted keys for the DRM. Now in this area BD is worse since they have MORE DRM with more encrypted key updates with the added BD+ & BD-ROM DRM that is not on HD DVD.

I think I will think long and hard about WHICH mfg makes the future HD player I might buy. What happens if the mfg decides they do not want to provide updated DRM keys after say 2-3 years? The answer is that you will not be able to play the newer movies which NEED those updated encrypted keys if the mfg stops making them for your model purchased.

Just think of the logistics of each mfg tracking and updating the firmware for these encrypted keys for say 5-10 years. Samsung is already having a bunch of problems with the few models they have out already. Just witness the major issues with the BD-P1200 model that still cannot play 4-5 new BD movie releases after over 1 month of release.

To be fair, Samsung has more models of BD players out compared to anyone else, but this just shows what a nightmare this problem may become. What happens if you buy a Chinese brand BD players, like the announced Funai BD player due this summer? Will they support these updates for 5-10 years? What if they stop after 1-2 years?

The studios are to blame for this (but I don't completely blame them because of piracy), but they should fund a standard DRM protocol that is not brand dependent and they should fund it as part of the cost of doing business. They will benefit from being able to update DRM keys more frequently if they feel the need, and they can set consumers at ease about having a player become worthless for new releases if a mfg drops support.

What do you guys think of this?

Bravestime · 02-07-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I think I will think long and hard about WHICH mfg makes the future HD player I might buy. What happens if the mfg decides they do not want to provide updated DRM keys after say 2-3 years? The answer is that you will not be able to play the newer movies which NEED those updated encrypted keys if the mfg stops making them for your model purchased.

Just think of the logistics of each mfg tracking and updating the firmware for these encrypted keys for say 5-10 years. Samsung is already having a bunch of problems with the few models they have out already. Just witness the major issues with the BD-P1200 model that still cannot play 4-5 new BD movie releases after over 1 month of release.

To be fair, Samsung has more models of BD players out compared to anyone else, but this just shows what a nightmare this problem may become. What happens if you buy a Chinese brand BD players, like the announced Funai BD player due this summer? Will they support these updates for 5-10 years? What if they stop after 1-2 years?

The studios are to blame for this (but I don't completely blame them because of piracy), but they should fund a standard DRM protocol that is not brand dependent and they should fund it as part of the cost of doing business. They will benefit from being able to update DRM keys more frequently if they feel the need, and they can set consumers at ease about having a player become worthless for new releases if a mfg drops support.

What do you guys think of this?

I think your really making a wild assumption. Just because the Samsung 1200 has had a rough road, look at all the other BD players that have very little problems or none. I have had zero issues with my BD player and Sony has been very consistent about maintaining their FW prior to new disc release which the FW fixed.

You can also make wild assumptions in other directions by assuming the BD camp will get a handle on future issues and all players' FW will be available for download prior to releasing any new titles to the public (especially Samsung). We may still be in this "growing period" for BD so they still need to iron issues out. But as I said above, Sony has showed no problems getting FW out.

Assumptions can be made on both sides and without some good facts to back it I would conclude it to be a "wild assumption".

Funkmeister · 02-07-2008, 10:11 AM

The OP contains certain facts and misrepresents others. Ultimately, it is an opinion and should be given the weight you think it deserves. Me, I think it is bull. But I don't care about DVD special features. I rarely even open up those menus.

pjc · 02-07-2008, 10:22 AM

1. I have a PS3 (and an A2

)

2. I have a 40" LCD

3. I am happy with the selection on both formats (obviously everyone wants more)

4. see #1

5. It's highly unlikely the PS3 price will go down much (I'm not gonna sweat $100 if the rumored $299 price ever happens...I don't think it will). 2.0 stand alones probably won't be at a low price point for about 2 years. At that point, I can sell the PS3 to EB games and buy a standalone.

SLedford · 02-07-2008, 12:10 PM

I worked for a boss named Bill for 18 years. He had a 5 year old daughter that he was thinking about getting a computer for (he found some interesting teaching software). He would call me in to evaluate the latest computer he was looking at, but couldn't get past the "it will be obsolete by the time we open the box" concept.

I pointed out that the computer would run the teaching software he was looking at buying even after newer & better PCs came along, but his daughter was in the 8th grade before his wife finally put her foot down and literally forced him to buy a PC.

Obsolete doesn't always mean that it will not work, but in the case of BD, I want a the COMPLETE specs before I buy. I have used the on-line extras with my HD-DVD player and especially like the online connection for getting updates.

That brings me to my missing the boat concept. My dad also resisted getting a B&W television till I was 11 and a neighbor GAVE us his old television. I bought the first color television for the family when I was in college - dad was perfectly happy with B&W. Once we got the color set, however, we all realized that we had "missed the boat" by not buying it sooner.

I think the same concept can be applied to high def movies - SD-DVDs may be fine for most, but once you go high def, you never go back. You just have to determine your price break where that works. Mine is $299 right now for a BD player with all the specs finalized. Hopefully we will see that sometime this year, possibly in a PS3.

shaeffer · 02-10-2008, 06:52 PM

And after 2.0 format, there will be something else to upgrade to. It will happen again & again just like everything else that is electronic now a days.

Scott/Omaha

02-05-2008, 11:35 PM	#2
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,572	Decent points. #5 is really the biggest reason out of them all I'd say. #1 would be second for me. I just think when you are spending that much on a player, it should do it all. Regardless of whether or not I'd use all the features, I want the option. I have tried out and used many of them. 300 and Transformers to name a few and they are pretty cool. I think #3 is probably the only point that doesn't really work. 450 titles and growing is a decent selection. __________________ Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 PS3 Sanyo PLV-Z3 Canon HF-10 Onkyo 805 "I eat green berets for breakfast and I'm very hungry!"

02-06-2008, 07:36 AM	#4
STJERNHOLM Soundman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Denmark Posts: 68	I do not agree on not to update yet. BD or HDDVD is so much better than DVD, that even my halfblind grandmother can see the difference. Even more important - the SOUND is in a other leauge. Most user just want to watch the damn movie - all those extras, games, internet activity and stuff is not the most important. We got the internet for that - and a really good movie website does a much better job at providing interactive extras. I agree on the annoyance that the blu-ray guys are still working on the spec.. that clearly sucks. Personally I have never really spend much time poking around the the internet enabled features of my HDDVD player. A internet connection for firmware updates is great - but really.... No consumer product should ever need a Firmware update...ever! :-) __________________ Regards, M.Stjernholm, Home Theater Nerd, Sound Designer & Mixer Mitsubishi HC-5000 HD,Steward 107" sceeen, Bravia 46" KDL-46W3000,Denon A1HD Preamp, Denon 2500BT Transport BD Player,Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD Player, Alesis RA-150,Mackie HR824 mk2 THX(LR), Mackie HR626 THX(C), mackie HR624(LsRs), M-Audio LX-4 (Cs) Genelec 7071A(LFE),SAMSUNG HD cabletv, Apple TV,WII, PS3. ..Say NO! to anything but lossless audio on HD discs! ..

02-06-2008, 03:37 PM	#6
Loran1 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California Age: 72 Posts: 201	When I was a teenager back in the fifties my father was anti-technology. He fought our getting a B&W TV, saying, “Let’s wait until it’s perfected.” He held to this when color, UHF channels, larger screens, remote controls, and tape recorders/players came along. He died before HDTV became available. If I had listened to him I would still be watching our old 12-1/2 inch B&W CRT box with all the limitations inherit of obsolete devices. And if I were to wait until HD players like Blu-ray are “perfected” I too would pass on before that ever happens. Well, with the number of years I have left I decided to buy a Blu-ray player now. And when, and if, it becomes obsolete as technology advances, I’ll just replace it. __________________ Pioneer PDP5030HD TV Panasonic TH-50PZ700U TV Panasonic DMP-BD30K Blu-ray player Polaroid 15" LCD TLA-0511C

02-06-2008, 09:19 PM	#8
Superman HD makes my pants tight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 35 Posts: 2,603	I'm sorry, but some of these arguments could be made about HD DVD as well. For example, the point on noticeable difference from DVD. HD DVD outputs the same resolution, so the same must be said of it. However, I've never seen HD on a TV smaller than 37", so I cant comment. But HD, on any format, looks great on my 42". I have my doubts that SD and HD would be indistinguishable on a 37" TV, although I agree not quite as dramatic. And I'm sorry, but HD DVD requires FW updates too. What gives HD DVD the advantage is the requirement of the ethernet port. And that is a reason to consider HD DVD. Most HD content is going to require some form of FW upgrade in the future. Just look at our satellite boxes. That's just the way it will be. Even if optical media goes away, hard drives will require FW updates too, because they will be running an OS and therefore need updating as new features, fixes, etc. come out. Get used to it. __________________ Samsung 56" 720p DLP HDTV Olevia 42" 1080p LCD HDTV Onkyo TX-SR674 Receiver Onkyo TX-SR606 Receiver Velodyne CHT Front Row 5 piece speakers Sony SS-SR305 for 7.1 surround sound BIC H-100 subwoofer RCA HDV5000 HD DVD Player Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD Player Samsung BD-UP5000 BD/HD DVD Player Xbox 360 Pro PS3 60 gig My own personal AV/HD forum

02-07-2008, 12:10 PM	#13
SLedford HD Fan Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 1,023	Comments on "obsolete" and "missing the boat" I worked for a boss named Bill for 18 years. He had a 5 year old daughter that he was thinking about getting a computer for (he found some interesting teaching software). He would call me in to evaluate the latest computer he was looking at, but couldn't get past the "it will be obsolete by the time we open the box" concept. I pointed out that the computer would run the teaching software he was looking at buying even after newer & better PCs came along, but his daughter was in the 8th grade before his wife finally put her foot down and literally forced him to buy a PC. Obsolete doesn't always mean that it will not work, but in the case of BD, I want a the COMPLETE specs before I buy. I have used the on-line extras with my HD-DVD player and especially like the online connection for getting updates. That brings me to my missing the boat concept. My dad also resisted getting a B&W television till I was 11 and a neighbor GAVE us his old television. I bought the first color television for the family when I was in college - dad was perfectly happy with B&W. Once we got the color set, however, we all realized that we had "missed the boat" by not buying it sooner. I think the same concept can be applied to high def movies - SD-DVDs may be fine for most, but once you go high def, you never go back. You just have to determine your price break where that works. Mine is $299 right now for a BD player with all the specs finalized. Hopefully we will see that sometime this year, possibly in a PS3. __________________ Toshiba 57H83 television, Paradigm Monitor 5 front speakers, Paradigm CC370 center speaker, Paradigm Mini Monitor surround speakers, Sony subwoofer, Yamaha HRT-5590 receiver, Denon DVD-2800 II, Toshiba HD-DVD A2, Play Station 3 - 40 Gig, Comcast HD Cable

02-06-2008, 12:32 AM	#3
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,420	I would say although it IS about the BD players it should be in the general HD area so as not to inflame others. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

02-06-2008, 01:01 PM	#5
djbamber older than dirt Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: payson az Posts: 319	I think that many of us that have purchased a Hi-Def large screen tv are looking for HD programming to play on them. I know that I sure am after spending a not so small sum of money. Having followed the Blu-ray/ HD DVD posts on Appleinsider for more than a year I decided that my future would be Blu! I bought a Panasonic BD-30 and have been very pleased with it. As far as the OP comments on waiting for prices to drop, then using the same analogy I should also have put off buying my 52 inch Sharp also I guess?

02-07-2008, 10:11 AM	#11
Funkmeister High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 69	The OP contains certain facts and misrepresents others. Ultimately, it is an opinion and should be given the weight you think it deserves. Me, I think it is bull. But I don't care about DVD special features. I rarely even open up those menus.

02-07-2008, 10:22 AM	#12
pjc High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,108	1. I have a PS3 (and an A2 ) 2. I have a 40" LCD 3. I am happy with the selection on both formats (obviously everyone wants more) 4. see #1 5. It's highly unlikely the PS3 price will go down much (I'm not gonna sweat $100 if the rumored $299 price ever happens...I don't think it will). 2.0 stand alones probably won't be at a low price point for about 2 years. At that point, I can sell the PS3 to EB games and buy a standalone.

02-10-2008, 06:52 PM	#14
shaeffer How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	And after 2.0 format, there will be something else to upgrade to. It will happen again & again just like everything else that is electronic now a days. Scott/Omaha

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