Wow. Sony will try anything to rip you off

unotis · 09-01-2007, 04:53 PM

If that is true then (and I really have no idea) superman, you could have just gotten upset over a mis-understanding and is was compounded by the fact that they were not educated enough to properly explain it to you.

Easy to understand how that could happen, especially with such a huge company as Sony and with so many employees.

Superman · 09-01-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmw

Now there's a well thought out and mature statement. For your information if a company has a single employee in a state, then that company must collect sales tax for products shipped to that state. If Sony has a company sales rep or a distribution center or a support office or anything at all, then it must collect sales taxes for products delivered in that state. That's how it works.

I have no idea what facilities or employees Sony may have in Maryland but I'm willing to bet there is something somewhere. Otherwise, they wouldn't go through the expense of collecting sales tax.

Perhaps. So far my search turned up nothing, but I may be looking for the wrong thing. And if there is a store or warehouse here, I retract my "douchebag" statement about the company, admit I was wrong, and take my lumps. Although the second guy I spoke to was a douchebag and only served to piss me off. So he's still a douchebag. If he didnt talk to me like an asshat, I may not have even started this thread.

unotis · 09-01-2007, 05:54 PM

Good, I'm glad you've rethought your original premise and realized that there might have been some mis-understanding that was compounded by a under educated employee who got probably frustrated because he did not actually know the answer to your question and instead decided to play the Asshole card to get rid of you.

That is not uncommon, sometimes when a employee is caught off guard in his ignorance he gets very defensive and combative.

See LordGamer if we talk things out and give various sound logical alternate views we can come to a mutual less angry understanding and not just jump off the bat and get combative which just worsens the situation instead of trying to help.

I hope you paid attention and learned something.

Nevada_MO_Guy · 09-01-2007, 06:36 PM

One exception to that is a legal concept called "nexus," which means a company can be forced to collect sales taxes if it has a sufficient business presence.
Days numbered for tax-free Net sales

BrianO · 09-01-2007, 11:47 PM

Methinks the OP protests too much. Sony is only ripping him off if they don't forward the collected tax to the appropriate authorities in Maryland. I doubt they are just keeping the money as he seems to believe. Also, while I am not familiar with Maryland's tax laws, there could very well be a provision that obliges him to forward the tax himself if it is not collected by the retailer. Many States have such provisions in their tax code.

**PFC5** · 09-02-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

Methinks the OP protests too much. Sony is only ripping him off if they don't forward the collected tax to the appropriate authorities in Maryland. I doubt they are just keeping the money as he seems to believe. Also, while I am not familiar with Maryland's tax laws, there could very well be a provision that obliges him to forward the tax himself if it is not collected by the retailer. Many States have such provisions in their tax code.

You are exactly right about this. I believe EVERY state that has a sales tax also has what is called a Use Tax. This means if you buy something in another state (or online) and it shall be used in your resident taxing state, you are required by law to report and pay over the sales tax on such items. The burden of doing this is on the consumer to report and pay this if the retailer does not collect the tax.

Most sales tax states have also added a line item on the personal income tax forms to do just this without going out and finding the correct form to report/pay these untaxed purchases.

fmw · 09-02-2007, 03:50 AM

Furthermore, collecting sales tax and not sending it to the state revenue department is a felony in every state in which I have operated. Sony isn't going to get involved in that.

While use tax laws are on the books, they are ignored almost universally. The states collect very little from use taxes.

**PFC5** · 09-02-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmw

Furthermore, collecting sales tax and not sending it to the state revenue department is a felony in every state in which I have operated. Sony isn't going to get involved in that.

While use tax laws are on the books, they are ignored almost universally. The states collect very little from use taxes.

Which is WHY many states are approaching big companies and offering them a deal. It is while we wait to get unified rules accepted by Congress to make national collection of Sales Tax happen we will exclude you from any collection action IF you start charging sales tax to all online sales.

Remember the moratorium of the internet expired about 2 years ago so there is potential exposure for a lot of big companies that do not want to have to explain huge tax liabilities after the fact.

tvine2000 · 09-02-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

I know your serious but as with all situations like this because it happened to you escalates to being more upsetting and important.

And I respect that, LordGamer is in a protect and attack any negative postings mode in regards to Sony and or Blu-Ray right now, which is very understandable given how badly the news has been going against Blu-Ray in the last week or so.

So in retrospect maybe your post was a little bit strong (I have no opinion on the thread placement although LordGamer doesn't seem to like it) but still is a valued input and something to put into our collective knowledge banks for future reference, although it could be just poorly trained phone personel that don't know anything and take the easiest route around a problem.
i dont think supermans post was strong at all

And LordGamer, there is no need to play the martyr card so agressively, you know there are several more Blu-Ray supporters then 3 on this forum.

Everyone needs to settle down, both sides, debate and discuss and don't take it so personally.

yeh but reality is reality:
ive talked to sony techs on the phone too,and they always avold the tough qustions. like bd+,profile 1.1 or 2.0.
i also say theres no need to play the martyr,because these companys like sony dont really care.

ClashFan · 09-02-2007, 09:19 AM

Another issue in this thread is the snotty rep he got on the phone.

Certainly, this is not limited to Sony, but I think it is a problem across the CE industry, and others.

I recently had a frustrating couple of calls to Comcast about my deteriorating high speed internet service. First call was decent and the guy was honest and informative. 2nd call 2 days later the guy was a complete jerk, and I threatened (seriously) to drop all my services (cable modem and tv). I hung up. Within 24 hours my service was much better.

What one might do is ask the offending rep for his/her name, and then ask to talk to a supervisor.

fmw · 09-02-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClashFan

Another issue in this thread is the snotty rep he got on the phone.

Certainly, this is not limited to Sony, but I think it is a problem across the CE industry, and others.

I recently had a frustrating couple of calls to Comcast about my deteriorating high speed internet service. First call was decent and the guy was honest and informative. 2nd call 2 days later the guy was a complete jerk, and I threatened (seriously) to drop all my services (cable modem and tv). I hung up. Within 24 hours my service was much better.

What one might do is ask the offending rep for his/her name, and then ask to talk to a supervisor.

Callers need to take some responsibility as well. I spend a lot of time on the telephones speaking with customers. While most of them are perfectly fine, a few are crass, impatient, rude and foul mouthed. I can tell you from experience that dealing with these people is way more than frustrating. I usually hang up on them. They usually call back to ask for the manager. That's me. They quiet down after that.

People will behave on the telephone and on the internet in fashions they would never do face to face. Telephone people are often provided with counseling to get them through the day.

If you catch a telephone person that has dealt with one of these phone freaks (and they do it usually more than once per day,) it can rub off on their behavior toward you. It is a two way street. If you want someone to be helpful treat them as though they are helping not fighting you.

crazyal · 09-02-2007, 12:03 PM

Lee, I think the potential exposure is on the part of the purchaser. If a company doesn't do business in a state then that state would have a hard time, if even possible, going after said seller because he didn't collect something that he's not required to. What IMO you will see is all sellers sending a list of all purchases shipped to said state, said state will verify that the buyer is a resident of that state then match up sales with reported income tax. If it wasn't reported by the purchaser then the state will go after him/ her for the taxes and fines by holding back any tax refund or seizing assets.

It's much easier to deal with an individual resident of your state then try to go after a large company. Vermont has make some deals with larger out of state retailers to collect taxes but they are just voluntary.

fmw · 09-02-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyal

Lee, I think the potential exposure is on the part of the purchaser.

No, it is not the responsibility of the individual to collect taxes. It is the seller's responsibility. It is the responsibility of the individual to pay the taxes. If taxes weren't collected, the the individual should pay the use tax but that's another matter. It is never the individuals' responsibility to see that the company collecting the taxes is turning them over to the government.

crazyal · 09-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Here's a copy of the Vermont Streamlined sales tax agreement. I've highlighted a section that deals with out of state sales. Do a search for "Streamlined Sales Tax Project", there are 22 states currently enrolled.

"Streamlined Sales Tax
What is it?
Business enterprises and over twenty member states jointly developed a program to simplify and
reduce the sales tax compliance burdens on businesses operating in multiple states. As part of this
cooperative effort, in exchange for simplification, businesses making sales into member states agree to
voluntarily collect and remit sales tax on all taxable sales into the member states.
Simplifying Sales & Use Tax
Essential simplification requirements of the agreement are:
�� Uniform definitions (e.g. “food” means the same thing in every state)
�� Single tax rate per state (states barred from imposing multiple special tax rates other than on
food/drugs)
�� Eliminate caps and thresholds (e.g. VT can no longer only tax clothing over $110 in value)
�� Common rule for rounding
�� Single return for state and local level taxes
�� Common tax base (tax applies to the same products/services at the state & local level) administered
at the state level
�� Ability to register and file online
�� Standardized rules for sourcing sales (all sales are sourced based upon destination)
�� Common exemption certificates
�� Amnesty for past liability in exchange for voluntary participation
�� States bear portion of compliance cost of remote sellers by providing an allowance deducted from
voluntary remittances of tax.
Motivation for State Participation in the Streamlined Sales Tax Agreement
Trends show a continued significant decline in sales tax revenue due to the emergence and expansion
of E-commerce and other remote transactions in which remote sellers can’t be compelled to collect the
tax from customers. Although the tax is legally due and owing from the in-state purchasers, few fully
report the tax they owe and it is not cost effective for states to pursue use tax from individuals through
audit.
Not only is this a significant revenue drain, but it puts in-state brick and mortar sellers who are
employing citizens and paying taxes at a competitive disadvantage against remote sellers who don’t
have to add tax to their selling price.
The states initiated SSTP largely in response to these untaxed sales so as to mitigate the losses and
even the playing field for in-state businesses. The ultimate goal is to sufficiently simplify sales tax
compliance such that the burdens to interstate commerce, cited by Congress as the sole impediment to
their passing legislation requiring such compliance, would be substantially reduced. This would pave
the way for Congress to act in compelling all remote sellers to collect sales tax on behalf of states that
have incorporated the SSTP simplification measures.
Motivation for Voluntary Participation by Businesses
SSTP addresses the traditional bricks & mortar businesses concerns about unfair competitive
advantages favoring online e-commerce retailers. These businesses must add sales tax to the purchase
price as well as incur real estate and property tax costs.
SSTP is also supported by many of the large online retailers, unsure of their “nexus” or taxable
presence, who would much prefer to collect and remit tax under a simplified system rather than risk
having a tax that they can simply pass through to their customers become their own liability upon
audit.
SSTP Conformity Changes in Vermont
Implementation of SSTP will require some changes to Vermont’s sales and use tax provisions.
�� Beer retail sales become taxable as Vermont was required to adopt the SSTP definition of
“Alcoholic Beverages” which does not permit different tax treatment of beer and wine.
�� Delivery charges become part of the purchase price
�� All canned software becomes taxable whether purchased as tangible (CD or other forms) or
electronically delivered
�� Clothing and footwear exemption applies to ALL clothing regardless of price
�� Cash discount given at the time of sale reduces the purchase price upon which tax is calculated
(currently not allowed)
Important Changes to Local Option Taxes
Sourcing rules change to destination-based. The delivery location determines the local option tax
jurisdiction instead of the location from which the sale originated as under current law. This will have
NO impact on in-store, “walk-out” sales as the origin and destination are the same from a seller’s
perspective. This will, however, require sellers in non-local option tax jurisdictions to collect the local
option tax when delivering products to customers in local option sales tax towns (As of 8/1/2006:
Burlington, Manchester, Williston, Stratton). The taxability of all products and services under the local
option tax changes to mirror state law. For example, clothing and footwear will be exempt for both
state and local option tax whereas clothing is currently taxable at the local level. Telecommunications
also become subject to the local option tax whereas they are currently not taxed.
Impact to Vermont Businesses
SSTP eliminates the remote sellers pricing advantage over Vermont-based businesses by requiring
them to add the 6% Vermont sales and use tax to the purchase price on sales to Vermont residents.
Shipping and delivery charges must be included as part of the purchase price upon which sales and use
tax must be by collected, which further limits remote sellers ability to undercut prices of Vermont
based businesses.
Effective Date
The SSTP Governing Board will consider Vermont’s petition for membership on August 29th. If
approved as an Associate Member, Vermont’s SSTP laws will take effect January 1, 2007"

fmw · 09-02-2007, 01:13 PM

My advice to Vermont and every other state government and especially the Federal Government is to SPEND LESS!!!

Actually, I would support a change from income tax to import duty as a way of funding the federal government. That would help rather than hurt U.S. manufacturers. It is something like a sales tax in that you don't have to pay unless you buy something imported. I would get behing that one. I would not get behind anything that would increase taxes for any reason at any level.

09-01-2007, 04:53 PM	#16
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	If that is true then (and I really have no idea) superman, you could have just gotten upset over a mis-understanding and is was compounded by the fact that they were not educated enough to properly explain it to you. Easy to understand how that could happen, especially with such a huge company as Sony and with so many employees. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

09-01-2007, 05:54 PM	#18
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Good, I'm glad you've rethought your original premise and realized that there might have been some mis-understanding that was compounded by a under educated employee who got probably frustrated because he did not actually know the answer to your question and instead decided to play the Asshole card to get rid of you. That is not uncommon, sometimes when a employee is caught off guard in his ignorance he gets very defensive and combative. See LordGamer if we talk things out and give various sound logical alternate views we can come to a mutual less angry understanding and not just jump off the bat and get combative which just worsens the situation instead of trying to help. I hope you paid attention and learned something. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

09-01-2007, 06:36 PM	#19
Nevada_MO_Guy Missouri_HD_Guy Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Age: 41 Posts: 809	One exception to that is a legal concept called "nexus," which means a company can be forced to collect sales taxes if it has a sufficient business presence. Days numbered for tax-free Net sales __________________ Sony KDS-60A2000 bulb hours ..... Yamaha RX-V1800 ..... Dish ViP 622 DuoDVR temps .... Toshiba HD-D1 ..... Philips BDP7200 ..... Mirage OMNISAT v2 FS .... Mirage OMNISAT v2 CC ..... Mirage OMNISAT v2 .... Mirage OMNI S12 (19Hz) ..... (2) Sony SA-W3000 (20Hz) ....Home Depot

09-01-2007, 11:47 PM	#20
BrianO Sony KD34XS955 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pointe-Claire QC Posts: 2,325	Much ado about nothing. Methinks the OP protests too much. Sony is only ripping him off if they don't forward the collected tax to the appropriate authorities in Maryland. I doubt they are just keeping the money as he seems to believe. Also, while I am not familiar with Maryland's tax laws, there could very well be a provision that obliges him to forward the tax himself if it is not collected by the retailer. Many States have such provisions in their tax code.

09-02-2007, 09:19 AM	#25
ClashFan Joe Strummer Lives! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,337	Another issue in this thread is the snotty rep he got on the phone. Certainly, this is not limited to Sony, but I think it is a problem across the CE industry, and others. I recently had a frustrating couple of calls to Comcast about my deteriorating high speed internet service. First call was decent and the guy was honest and informative. 2nd call 2 days later the guy was a complete jerk, and I threatened (seriously) to drop all my services (cable modem and tv). I hung up. Within 24 hours my service was much better. What one might do is ask the offending rep for his/her name, and then ask to talk to a supervisor. __________________ My gear: Samsung LN46A650 -- 46" 120 Hz Onkyo TX-SR674 receiver JBL Venue fronts, Infinity TSS-1100 center Infinity TSS-1100 surrounds and rear surrounds JBL SUB12 subwoofer Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player (firmware 2.7) (100+ HD DVDs) Sony BDP-S550 BD player (51 BDs) Xbox 360 game console Comcast Motorola 6412 HDTV cable box Logitech Harmony 550 Remote 1 wife, 2 sons (ages 15 and 8)

09-02-2007, 03:50 AM	#22
fmw High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 946	Furthermore, collecting sales tax and not sending it to the state revenue department is a felony in every state in which I have operated. Sony isn't going to get involved in that. While use tax laws are on the books, they are ignored almost universally. The states collect very little from use taxes.

09-02-2007, 12:03 PM	#27
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	Lee, I think the potential exposure is on the part of the purchaser. If a company doesn't do business in a state then that state would have a hard time, if even possible, going after said seller because he didn't collect something that he's not required to. What IMO you will see is all sellers sending a list of all purchases shipped to said state, said state will verify that the buyer is a resident of that state then match up sales with reported income tax. If it wasn't reported by the purchaser then the state will go after him/ her for the taxes and fines by holding back any tax refund or seizing assets. It's much easier to deal with an individual resident of your state then try to go after a large company. Vermont has make some deals with larger out of state retailers to collect taxes but they are just voluntary.

09-02-2007, 12:46 PM	#29
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	Here's a copy of the Vermont Streamlined sales tax agreement. I've highlighted a section that deals with out of state sales. Do a search for "Streamlined Sales Tax Project", there are 22 states currently enrolled. "Streamlined Sales Tax What is it? Business enterprises and over twenty member states jointly developed a program to simplify and reduce the sales tax compliance burdens on businesses operating in multiple states. As part of this cooperative effort, in exchange for simplification, businesses making sales into member states agree to voluntarily collect and remit sales tax on all taxable sales into the member states. Simplifying Sales & Use Tax Essential simplification requirements of the agreement are: �� Uniform definitions (e.g. “food” means the same thing in every state) �� Single tax rate per state (states barred from imposing multiple special tax rates other than on food/drugs) �� Eliminate caps and thresholds (e.g. VT can no longer only tax clothing over $110 in value) �� Common rule for rounding �� Single return for state and local level taxes �� Common tax base (tax applies to the same products/services at the state & local level) administered at the state level �� Ability to register and file online �� Standardized rules for sourcing sales (all sales are sourced based upon destination) �� Common exemption certificates �� Amnesty for past liability in exchange for voluntary participation �� States bear portion of compliance cost of remote sellers by providing an allowance deducted from voluntary remittances of tax. Motivation for State Participation in the Streamlined Sales Tax Agreement Trends show a continued significant decline in sales tax revenue due to the emergence and expansion of E-commerce and other remote transactions in which remote sellers can’t be compelled to collect the tax from customers. Although the tax is legally due and owing from the in-state purchasers, few fully report the tax they owe and it is not cost effective for states to pursue use tax from individuals through audit. Not only is this a significant revenue drain, but it puts in-state brick and mortar sellers who are employing citizens and paying taxes at a competitive disadvantage against remote sellers who don’t have to add tax to their selling price. The states initiated SSTP largely in response to these untaxed sales so as to mitigate the losses and even the playing field for in-state businesses. The ultimate goal is to sufficiently simplify sales tax compliance such that the burdens to interstate commerce, cited by Congress as the sole impediment to their passing legislation requiring such compliance, would be substantially reduced. This would pave the way for Congress to act in compelling all remote sellers to collect sales tax on behalf of states that have incorporated the SSTP simplification measures. Motivation for Voluntary Participation by Businesses SSTP addresses the traditional bricks & mortar businesses concerns about unfair competitive advantages favoring online e-commerce retailers. These businesses must add sales tax to the purchase price as well as incur real estate and property tax costs. SSTP is also supported by many of the large online retailers, unsure of their “nexus” or taxable presence, who would much prefer to collect and remit tax under a simplified system rather than risk having a tax that they can simply pass through to their customers become their own liability upon audit. SSTP Conformity Changes in Vermont Implementation of SSTP will require some changes to Vermont’s sales and use tax provisions. �� Beer retail sales become taxable as Vermont was required to adopt the SSTP definition of “Alcoholic Beverages” which does not permit different tax treatment of beer and wine. �� Delivery charges become part of the purchase price �� All canned software becomes taxable whether purchased as tangible (CD or other forms) or electronically delivered �� Clothing and footwear exemption applies to ALL clothing regardless of price �� Cash discount given at the time of sale reduces the purchase price upon which tax is calculated (currently not allowed) Important Changes to Local Option Taxes Sourcing rules change to destination-based. The delivery location determines the local option tax jurisdiction instead of the location from which the sale originated as under current law. This will have NO impact on in-store, “walk-out” sales as the origin and destination are the same from a seller’s perspective. This will, however, require sellers in non-local option tax jurisdictions to collect the local option tax when delivering products to customers in local option sales tax towns (As of 8/1/2006: Burlington, Manchester, Williston, Stratton). The taxability of all products and services under the local option tax changes to mirror state law. For example, clothing and footwear will be exempt for both state and local option tax whereas clothing is currently taxable at the local level. Telecommunications also become subject to the local option tax whereas they are currently not taxed. Impact to Vermont Businesses SSTP eliminates the remote sellers pricing advantage over Vermont-based businesses by requiring them to add the 6% Vermont sales and use tax to the purchase price on sales to Vermont residents. Shipping and delivery charges must be included as part of the purchase price upon which sales and use tax must be by collected, which further limits remote sellers ability to undercut prices of Vermont based businesses. Effective Date The SSTP Governing Board will consider Vermont’s petition for membership on August 29th. If approved as an Associate Member, Vermont’s SSTP laws will take effect January 1, 2007"

09-02-2007, 01:13 PM	#30
fmw High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 946	My advice to Vermont and every other state government and especially the Federal Government is to SPEND LESS!!! Actually, I would support a change from income tax to import duty as a way of funding the federal government. That would help rather than hurt U.S. manufacturers. It is something like a sales tax in that you don't have to pay unless you buy something imported. I would get behing that one. I would not get behind anything that would increase taxes for any reason at any level.

Similar Threads to Wow. Sony will try anything to rip you off
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Report: Sony facing massive PS3 losses	Cygnus	HD DVD Players	80	07-20-2007 02:17 PM
Report: Sony facing massive PS3 losses	Cygnus	Gaming & Systems	33	05-22-2007 07:01 PM
wow, sony does it again..........	bboncorr	Gaming & Systems	17	10-20-2006 05:49 PM
Sony hemoraging ca$h thanks to PS3 and Battery problems	Cygnus	Gaming & Systems	0	10-19-2006 10:46 AM
Wow. Sony is still Sony...	strawberry	HD DVD Players	7	08-14-2005 11:22 AM