Mitsubishi Reveals 3D Blu-ray Player

Lee Stewart · 08-23-2007, 07:57 AM

Mitsubishi Reveals 3D Blu-ray Player
The company demonstrates 3-D images for reporters at golf tournament.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (August 23, 2007) -- Mitsubishi may launch a Blu-ray player early next year that can convert 2D movies into 3D images.

That's according to an article at CNET.com.

The web site reports that Mitsubishi recently hosted a technology exhibit for the media at the Westchester County Club in New York, the site of this weekend's Barclay PGA Golf Tournament.

During the exhibit, the company handed reporters a pair of 3D goggles and displayed several images on screen that showcased the special effect.

"Most of us were pretty impressed by the demo, which included clips from movies, commercials, and sporting events. There was real depth to the 3D and you got that whole feeling of things poking out at you from the screen," said CNET.

But the surprise of the event was Mitsubishi's disclosure that it was working on the 3D Blu-ray player and it may be ready by early next year.

Philips has stated that it plans to issue a 3D HDTV in the next year or so, a set that would not require 3D goggles to appreciate the effect. But this is the first mention of a set-top that would convert a high-def disc into 3D.

CNET writes that Mitsubishi would not discuss possible pricing for the 3D Blu-ray player, but it said it was discussing integrating the technology into a well-known game console. That would likely to be Sony's PlayStation 3, which now has a Blu-ray player inside.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/mitsubishi082307.htm

BobY · 08-23-2007, 01:46 PM

Interesting, but I'll believe that it can convert 2D to 3D for viewing on a non-3D display when I see it.

Although it's technically possible to construct a 3D image from a 2D image, given prior information about the depth of objects in a scene, or multi-angle 2D views, I don't know any way it can be done without serious anamolies when the algorithms have no information about the depth..

I suspect that's why they were showing a specially prepared disc of "clips" and not simply popping in a movie.

GLOW · 08-23-2007, 04:31 PM

This is another advantage Blu-ray has over HD DVD. True dual stream. 3D isn't possible with HD DVD.

anythingwt · 08-23-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

3D isn't possible with HD DVD.

Not a flame or calling you out here, but I'm honestly curious, why not?

GLOW · 08-24-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

Not a flame or calling you out here, but I'm honestly curious, why not?

HD DVD's second video stream is ONLY for PiP.

Since BD allows the second video stream to be encoded in full 1080p24 resolution, this stream could be used to encode the alternate left/right eye-angle of a 3D film.

Only BD is capable of true 3D.

BobY · 08-24-2007, 11:40 AM

A bit of a spurious argument.

The films would have to be made in 3D in the first place and studios don't make many 3D movies (and of the few that have been released on DVD, they obviously haven't needed a second data stream). PIP will be a far more common usage.

The Mitsubishi player is supposed to be able to take an existing 2D disc and convert it to 3D, so it wouldn't use the secondary stream at all.

BTW, 3D is just as possible on HD DVD as it is on DVD, either using anaglyph or LCD shutter glasses.

Lee Stewart · 08-24-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

This is another advantage Blu-ray has over HD DVD. True dual stream. 3D isn't possible with HD DVD.

1. It only works on RPTV's - the smallest segment of the HDTV market

2. It is being designed around the new 120Hz refresh rate so it can be shown 60/60 for the use of LCD glasses, so any BD (or even DVD if player will allow) can be shown in 3D.

3. There is no software yet.

The_Omega_Man · 08-26-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

HD DVD's second video stream is ONLY for PiP.

Actually, it can be used for any purpose, not just ONLY for PiP. but it is limited to SD resolutions for HD DVD. (today)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

Since BD allows the second video stream to be encoded in full 1080p24 resolution, this stream could be used to encode the alternate left/right eye-angle of a 3D film.

Only BD is capable of true 3D.

Bandwidth is your issue with 2 simultaneous HD streams..Even with the higher potential data bit rate of the BR specifications, this would be a very difficult task, at best, to undertake!

GLOW · 08-27-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Omega_Man

Actually, it can be used for any purpose, not just ONLY for PiP. but it is limited to SD resolutions for HD DVD. (today)

How many fps is the spec for HD DVD second stream?

Quote:

Bandwidth is your issue with 2 simultaneous HD streams..Even with the higher potential data bit rate of the BR specifications, this would be a very difficult task, at best, to undertake!

Not with the amazing VC-1 codec. Thank you, Microsoft!

Lee Stewart · 08-27-2007, 08:21 PM

Maybe BobY will come back. Here from the HD DVD Specifications . . . PIP:

4.5.2 PIP transition
While watching a bonus video overlaid as PIP on the feature film, the user presses a remote control button to
transition the PIP to become full screen and the feature film to become PIP.

• The PIP video can reside on the disc, home network server, other local cache, or internet server.

4.5.3 Keyed supplemental video
A director’s audio/video commentary plays during playback of the main movie. The directors are displayed
in the form of a video that is keyed (e.g. chroma-keyed) over the movie (i.e. not a fixed shape, size, or
location).

4.5.4 Multiple PIP videos
When the user selects the "multi-scene" mode from a menu interface the user is presented with other scenes
(behind the scenes, storyboards) that can be viewed in two PIP windows while the movie continues to play.
The user can highlight each PIP window individually and resize it on the fly.

BobY · 08-27-2007, 09:57 PM

Come back? I haven't left.

I don't feel the need to get into the gritty details though--based on the orignal post, Glow's argument is irrelevant.

A) Just as with SD DVD, you don't need to use a second data stream at all for 3D, you either encode for anaglyph glasses or LCD shutters. Film is only 24 Fps, so you don't even need the higher refresh rate with LCD shutters, although I do agree it will minimize perceived flicker.

B) Unless the movie was filmed in 3D in the first place, with the left and right images encoded as two separate data streams on the disc (as opposed to a single stream anaglyph or field-sequential process), the secondary data stream wouldn't even come into play.

I can count the number of 3D movies worth owning in Hi-Def on one hand. Maybe less.

In any event, it has *nothing* to do with the Mitsubishi announcement, which is supposed to be able to take a single-stream 2D movie and render it in 3D as a post-process.

Lee Stewart · 08-27-2007, 10:04 PM

How about IMAX 3D movies? They could be made available. Also a few 3D Porno movies were made - very funny (one gives new meaning to the phrase "unleash the sweater kittens").

And when I said "come back" - meant to this thread.

I do have a book that lists all 3D movies made up until about 2000. Over 500 (more than 65/70mm movies)

Noteworthy:

3D Anime - Orin - Legend of Starchaser (panavision)

Space Hunters - Adventures In The Forbidden Zone (panavision)

BobY · 08-27-2007, 10:16 PM

Actually, I was thinking mostly of the IMAX 3D films.

Did you ever *watch* "Spacehunter"? Why anyone would think Peter Strauss would make a good action hero is way beyond me. Absoutely awful, even to a die-hard SF fan like me.

For the most part, films used 3D as a gimmick (usually because the film was so bad they needed a gimmick to get anyone to come). Except for documentary-type films (such as IMAX), I reiterate, there are practially no 3D films that are worth owning in Hi-Def and I don't see any rush to make new films in 3D either.

Lee Stewart · 08-28-2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

Actually, I was thinking mostly of the IMAX 3D films.

Did you ever *watch* "Spacehunter"? Why anyone would think Peter Strauss would make a good action hero is way beyond me. Absoutely awful, even to a die-hard SF fan like me.

For the most part, films used 3D as a gimmick (usually because the film was so bad they needed a gimmick to get anyone to come). Except for documentary-type films (such as IMAX), I reiterate, there are practially no 3D films that are worth owning in Hi-Def and I don't see any rush to make new films in 3D either.

Both Steven Speilberg and James Cameron are making new 3D moives. 3D is making a comeback.

BobY · 08-28-2007, 11:16 AM

Comeback?

They were never here to start with.

3D is a gimmick. It's a fun gimmick, but don't expect there to be a sudden craze for 3D, it's just a distraction when watching a good film.

Until you can watch 3D without wearing uncomfortable glasses or seeing a dim picture and which doesn't require special equipment in a theater or at home, fuhgeddaboudit.

08-23-2007, 07:57 AM	#1
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	Mitsubishi Reveals 3D Blu-ray Player Mitsubishi Reveals 3D Blu-ray Player The company demonstrates 3-D images for reporters at golf tournament. By Swanni Washington, D.C. (August 23, 2007) -- Mitsubishi may launch a Blu-ray player early next year that can convert 2D movies into 3D images. That's according to an article at CNET.com. The web site reports that Mitsubishi recently hosted a technology exhibit for the media at the Westchester County Club in New York, the site of this weekend's Barclay PGA Golf Tournament. During the exhibit, the company handed reporters a pair of 3D goggles and displayed several images on screen that showcased the special effect. "Most of us were pretty impressed by the demo, which included clips from movies, commercials, and sporting events. There was real depth to the 3D and you got that whole feeling of things poking out at you from the screen," said CNET. But the surprise of the event was Mitsubishi's disclosure that it was working on the 3D Blu-ray player and it may be ready by early next year. Philips has stated that it plans to issue a 3D HDTV in the next year or so, a set that would not require 3D goggles to appreciate the effect. But this is the first mention of a set-top that would convert a high-def disc into 3D. CNET writes that Mitsubishi would not discuss possible pricing for the 3D Blu-ray player, but it said it was discussing integrating the technology into a well-known game console. That would likely to be Sony's PlayStation 3, which now has a Blu-ray player inside. http://www.tvpredictions.com/mitsubishi082307.htm

08-23-2007, 04:31 PM	#3
GLOW PUBLIC ENEMY #1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chi 'til I die Age: 30 Posts: 7,650	This is another advantage Blu-ray has over HD DVD. True dual stream. 3D isn't possible with HD DVD. __________________ "In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria." - Benjamin Franklin

08-24-2007, 11:40 AM	#6
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	A bit of a spurious argument. The films would have to be made in 3D in the first place and studios don't make many 3D movies (and of the few that have been released on DVD, they obviously haven't needed a second data stream). PIP will be a far more common usage. The Mitsubishi player is supposed to be able to take an existing 2D disc and convert it to 3D, so it wouldn't use the secondary stream at all. BTW, 3D is just as possible on HD DVD as it is on DVD, either using anaglyph or LCD shutter glasses. Last edited by BobY; 08-24-2007 at 11:52 AM.

08-27-2007, 10:04 PM	#12
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	How about IMAX 3D movies? They could be made available. Also a few 3D Porno movies were made - very funny (one gives new meaning to the phrase "unleash the sweater kittens"). And when I said "come back" - meant to this thread. I do have a book that lists all 3D movies made up until about 2000. Over 500 (more than 65/70mm movies) Noteworthy: 3D Anime - Orin - Legend of Starchaser (panavision) Space Hunters - Adventures In The Forbidden Zone (panavision) Last edited by Lee Stewart; 08-27-2007 at 10:08 PM.

08-28-2007, 11:16 AM	#15
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	Comeback? They were never here to start with. 3D is a gimmick. It's a fun gimmick, but don't expect there to be a sudden craze for 3D, it's just a distraction when watching a good film. Until you can watch 3D without wearing uncomfortable glasses or seeing a dim picture and which doesn't require special equipment in a theater or at home, fuhgeddaboudit. Last edited by BobY; 08-28-2007 at 11:23 AM.

08-23-2007, 01:46 PM	#2
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	Interesting, but I'll believe that it can convert 2D to 3D for viewing on a non-3D display when I see it. Although it's technically possible to construct a 3D image from a 2D image, given prior information about the depth of objects in a scene, or multi-angle 2D views, I don't know any way it can be done without serious anamolies when the algorithms have no information about the depth.. I suspect that's why they were showing a specially prepared disc of "clips" and not simply popping in a movie.

08-27-2007, 08:21 PM	#10
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	Maybe BobY will come back. Here from the HD DVD Specifications . . . PIP: 4.5.2 PIP transition While watching a bonus video overlaid as PIP on the feature film, the user presses a remote control button to transition the PIP to become full screen and the feature film to become PIP. • The PIP video can reside on the disc, home network server, other local cache, or internet server. 4.5.3 Keyed supplemental video A director’s audio/video commentary plays during playback of the main movie. The directors are displayed in the form of a video that is keyed (e.g. chroma-keyed) over the movie (i.e. not a fixed shape, size, or location). 4.5.4 Multiple PIP videos When the user selects the "multi-scene" mode from a menu interface the user is presented with other scenes (behind the scenes, storyboards) that can be viewed in two PIP windows while the movie continues to play. The user can highlight each PIP window individually and resize it on the fly.

08-27-2007, 09:57 PM	#11
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	Come back? I haven't left. I don't feel the need to get into the gritty details though--based on the orignal post, Glow's argument is irrelevant. A) Just as with SD DVD, you don't need to use a second data stream at all for 3D, you either encode for anaglyph glasses or LCD shutters. Film is only 24 Fps, so you don't even need the higher refresh rate with LCD shutters, although I do agree it will minimize perceived flicker. B) Unless the movie was filmed in 3D in the first place, with the left and right images encoded as two separate data streams on the disc (as opposed to a single stream anaglyph or field-sequential process), the secondary data stream wouldn't even come into play. I can count the number of 3D movies worth owning in Hi-Def on one hand. Maybe less. In any event, it has nothing to do with the Mitsubishi announcement, which is supposed to be able to take a single-stream 2D movie and render it in 3D as a post-process.

08-27-2007, 10:16 PM	#13
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	Actually, I was thinking mostly of the IMAX 3D films. Did you ever watch "Spacehunter"? Why anyone would think Peter Strauss would make a good action hero is way beyond me. Absoutely awful, even to a die-hard SF fan like me. For the most part, films used 3D as a gimmick (usually because the film was so bad they needed a gimmick to get anyone to come). Except for documentary-type films (such as IMAX), I reiterate, there are practially no 3D films that are worth owning in Hi-Def and I don't see any rush to make new films in 3D either.

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