And Now - From Pioneer

Lee Stewart · 06-20-2007, 07:57 PM

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6454303.html

Jerry1808 · 06-20-2007, 08:20 PM

Magnolia's where I bought mine and I love it.

**PFC5** · 06-20-2007, 08:22 PM

Speak of the devil. (err, Pioneer I mean, not you Jerry.

)

Jerry1808 · 06-20-2007, 09:06 PM

I've been called worse. Oh well.

crazyal · 06-21-2007, 12:13 PM

Does Panasonic own Pioneer or make it's BD player or was that a typo by the author in that last paragraph?

I was hoping Pioneer would have also jumped on the DF bandwagon after seeing LG offer one and with all the news of Sammy going to offer one this fall. I would really like to see more companies follow those two as well as offer all the extras of a quality high end machine. The market is not just about who can get to sub $200 but if there is also a truely high end player that has more than a nice plastic face. Pioneer seams to understand this.

Jerry1808 · 06-21-2007, 02:31 PM

Each company makes their own player and afaik there is no corporate connection with each other.
Pioneer, as the article states, is primarily interested in a higher end market and is firmly entrenched in Blu-ray. I've had several Pioneer products and have always been impressed with their performance and reliability.

crazyal · 06-21-2007, 04:34 PM

It was a typo and they've changed it, lol. The last quote “The demand was bigger [than Pioneer could produce]” the author used Panasonic not pioneer.

ericwelch@mac. · 06-21-2007, 09:26 PM

Pioneer is an ELITE brand?

When did it change?

I bought a Pioneer product and was I ever sorry. They're not as over-hyped and under-performing as Bose, but if I want an elite brand, I'll get Harman Kardan or something more high end than Pioneer.

LordGamer · 06-21-2007, 10:51 PM

The Pioneer DVR w/ DVD recorder I own is nice, but nothing special. I used to own a Pioneer CD player that was of great quality.

As far the BR player is concern, I get marketing to a different crowd, but what is it bringing to the table that the less expensive models aren't...

Doesn't seem like there is anything worth the extra $400-500.

drock912001 · 06-23-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericwelch@mac.

Pioneer is an ELITE brand?

When did it change?

I bought a Pioneer product and was I ever sorry. They're not as over-hyped and under-performing as Bose, but if I want an elite brand, I'll get Harman Kardan or something more high end than Pioneer.

Pioneer has two product lines.
1.ELITE which caters to most users on this board and can't be found in big box retailers.
2.Pioneer as most of us know it which can be found in BB,CC and other big box retailers across America.
The ELITE line is not mass produced like when SONY offerd an ES line of components.Pioneer dvd players fall in between the 2.

Jerry1808 · 06-24-2007, 12:10 AM

I have three Elite products as you can see in my equipment list and all have worked perfectly with no problems except doing a firmware update on the blu-ray so it will work with Java based menus and an upgrade to Dolby THD audio.

In several comparison reviews (Home Theater and TPV come to mind) the hd1 was rated as having the best video quality of the groups. Sorry Eric that you had such a bad experience but Pioneer products are generally well regarded.

crybabiz · 06-29-2007, 02:08 PM

I think one's non elite Pioneer model BDP-HD50k

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna...440980,00.html

**PFC5** · 06-29-2007, 03:46 PM

That is the Canadian site for Pioneer so it might be a different model than can be bought in the USA. I tried to see how much it cost but it is not listed under the dropdown for the model when I went through the "where to Buy link". I wonder what this model costs, and if it will be cheaper being a non-Elite model.

Stew4HD · 06-29-2007, 06:46 PM

I had a Pioneer Elite 5 disk DVD player and it worked great for about 2 years, then the disk drawer stopped opening... actually, it would open then close immediately.. it was out of warranty and no one would take a look at it. I haven't owned a Pioneer since.

I feel they are over priced for what they are, but that is just my opinion.

The_Omega_Man · 06-30-2007, 04:28 AM

Is Pioneer Marketing using the term "Elite," in the derogatory sense? Or is there potentially an implication that consumers are stupid enough to fall for the marketing usage of a generally identifiable application of the class signifying word, Elite?

I equate the use of the marketing terms like "elite," and the Sony moniker of "ES and XBR," which are intended to signify the "High end," of AV equipment, from both respective Mfgs., to that of the auto Mfgs. Toyota(Lexus), Honda(Acura), Nissan(Infinity),etc.. Where they basically take their own mass produced products, add or modify some features and options, apply some cosmetic changes and a hefty price increase.

True Story:
I actually went to a Lexus dealer ship a few years back and saw the Toyota name etched into the windows of the car I was looking at, also the engine cover read Toyota in LARGE letters. When I asked the salesmen why the Lexus, which was MOSTLY the same vehicle as the Toyota version of the same car, why the Lexus was $10K to $15K(US) more than the Toyota version (with the exact same options BTW), the inane response I got back was, "Because, It's a LEXUS!"

Even after I pointed to the Toyota labeling, "It's a LEXUS!" Now the continued discussion revealed that the target market at these price points is the potential Mercedes and BMW consumer! Hmmm. I guess the fact is that your product is not really the best unless it is only truly obtainable , and desirable, by the financial minority! Therefore Being the BEST $$$, MUST = GOOD! (unfortunately, my wife suffers from this affliction)

BTW the BMW sales person we encountered, looked around us at the car we drove up in, and proceeded to tell my wife and I the price range of the cars before he would get up off of his duff to show us anything!

Fricken Eliteism!

I digress.
Now before the Pro-Elite folks begin to proclaim that the Elite and ES Branding of the Pioneer, Sony and other CE Mfg. products is supposed to mean that it is made with better parts, are individually or hand made, use gold plated connectors and are professionally calibrated before they leave the factory, yada yada, I would have to say, in my experience, that the quality, reliability, output and general fit & finish of the "High End (Translation $$$)," CE equipment can sometimes be arguably and subjectively better than the Lesser Class, feature equivalent products.

But by no means, do I take this for granted when selecting a CE or any other product to purchase! There have been more than a few "High End," Lemons out there too!

Sorry Pioneer Marketing folks, I simply will not forgo doing my homework, simply because of a marketing label of "elite."

Quote:

“There’s a fairly significant population of high-end users, who are more performance-driven than cost-driven,” said Andy Parsons, senior VP of advanced product development at Pioneer. “We have an elite brand identity. People are familiar with our elite plasma TVs, and it’s among the best for picture quality. That resonates with the high-end market.”

Do the Pioneer "elite" DB players actually provide better digital PQ and AQ than the lower priced, feature equivalent, alternatives do today or will do tomorrow?

Exactly, what does that statement mean in this specific context of HDD?

Apparently, J6P need not apply here because your hard earned money is simply not good enough!

Go get in your Toyota, Honda, yogo , etc. and drive to CC for a PS3 or something, "More affordable." You eyes and ears are not simply worthy to go to Ken Cranes, Magnolia Home Theater or Paul’s TV, to gaze upon the REAL & TRUE HD Picture and Audio output of an "elite" DB Player! LMAO!

So, if I were to put an "elite," badge on my FIRST Generation of New Technology AM only radio tuners, which most of my competition make too - BTW, that the previous "elite," product buyer will probably buy this too, at a premium, just because they can?

(see my first two questions)
Hell, in that case I'll put the term "elite" on anything I sell on e-bay from now on. And just in case you were about to ask, no, my "elite" HD-DVD players are not going up on e-bay any time soon! But if they do, I should get a pretty good ROI!

But seriously, does the Elite player really have higher performance characteristics than a non-Elite player or for that matter the Sony, Samsung or Panasonic BD players? If so, do the performance differences really equate to the price differential? (rhetorical question)

I bought both an Toshiba HD-A2, HD-XA2 and a PS3, not because I am a "Elite," individual, but rather because I had no other options for what I wanted to get, at the time!

I want to get 3 more HDD players, but I need the prices to hit my sweet spot first! If do I buy a BD player, there is a very good bet, that it will not be this elite Pioneer BD player, unless the price leaves stratosphere and heds straight for mother earth, post haste! Sorry KC, Mag. and Paul, I need the money I'm going to save at CC, BB or amazon to get the Lexus out of the shop again!

Closing thoughts:
Typically, don't you first have to establish a real market place, before you market yourself to be the "elite" of a standards based technology market, or did I miss that marketing lesson in college? And once you do go there, shouldn't you significantly differentiate your "Have's" product from the "Have's not, products?

Whew, I think that was enough grand standing for one day! I'll pass the mic. now!

06-20-2007, 07:57 PM	#1
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 26,397	And Now - From Pioneer http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6454303.html

06-20-2007, 08:20 PM	#2
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	Magnolia's where I bought mine and I love it. __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One

06-20-2007, 08:22 PM	#3
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 31,304	Speak of the devil. (err, Pioneer I mean, not you Jerry. ) __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

06-20-2007, 09:06 PM	#4
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	I've been called worse. Oh well. __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One

06-21-2007, 02:31 PM	#6
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	Each company makes their own player and afaik there is no corporate connection with each other. Pioneer, as the article states, is primarily interested in a higher end market and is firmly entrenched in Blu-ray. I've had several Pioneer products and have always been impressed with their performance and reliability. __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One Last edited by Jerry1808; 06-21-2007 at 02:38 PM.

06-21-2007, 12:13 PM	#5
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,327	Does Panasonic own Pioneer or make it's BD player or was that a typo by the author in that last paragraph? I was hoping Pioneer would have also jumped on the DF bandwagon after seeing LG offer one and with all the news of Sammy going to offer one this fall. I would really like to see more companies follow those two as well as offer all the extras of a quality high end machine. The market is not just about who can get to sub $200 but if there is also a truely high end player that has more than a nice plastic face. Pioneer seams to understand this.

06-21-2007, 04:34 PM	#7
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,327	It was a typo and they've changed it, lol. The last quote “The demand was bigger [than Pioneer could produce]” the author used Panasonic not pioneer.

06-21-2007, 09:26 PM	#8
ericwelch@mac. Photomaker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 2	Pioneer is an ELITE brand? When did it change? I bought a Pioneer product and was I ever sorry. They're not as over-hyped and under-performing as Bose, but if I want an elite brand, I'll get Harman Kardan or something more high end than Pioneer. __________________ -- Eric Jessie: And we got him a marble headstone. It had his name on it, and underneath, we had them put, "In the Fullness of His Years." Is that all right with you? John Russell: I'll settle for that. I'm not on the slab. Jessie: Well, what do you figure yours is going to read? John Russell: "Shot Dead," probably. Jessie: Don't people take to you, Mr. Russell? John Russell: It only takes one who doesn't. Dialog from the movie "Hombre"

06-21-2007, 10:51 PM	#9
LordGamer Lord of Gaming Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,795	The Pioneer DVR w/ DVD recorder I own is nice, but nothing special. I used to own a Pioneer CD player that was of great quality. As far the BR player is concern, I get marketing to a different crowd, but what is it bringing to the table that the less expensive models aren't... Doesn't seem like there is anything worth the extra $400-500. __________________ LordGamer Profile - George Carlin, R.I.P. 06.22.08 HD Qualifications... -- Westinghouse 47" 1080p LCD (LVM-47w1) -- Scientific Atlanta HD Receiver & DVR (8300HD), Comcast -- Sony Playstation 3 -- Microsoft Xbox 360

06-24-2007, 12:10 AM	#11
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	I have three Elite products as you can see in my equipment list and all have worked perfectly with no problems except doing a firmware update on the blu-ray so it will work with Java based menus and an upgrade to Dolby THD audio. In several comparison reviews (Home Theater and TPV come to mind) the hd1 was rated as having the best video quality of the groups. Sorry Eric that you had such a bad experience but Pioneer products are generally well regarded. __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One

06-29-2007, 02:08 PM	#12
crybabiz High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 64	I think one's non elite Pioneer model BDP-HD50k http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna...440980,00.html

06-29-2007, 03:46 PM	#13
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 31,304	That is the Canadian site for Pioneer so it might be a different model than can be bought in the USA. I tried to see how much it cost but it is not listed under the dropdown for the model when I went through the "where to Buy link". I wonder what this model costs, and if it will be cheaper being a non-Elite model. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

06-29-2007, 06:46 PM	#14
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tejas Baby Posts: 9,187	I had a Pioneer Elite 5 disk DVD player and it worked great for about 2 years, then the disk drawer stopped opening... actually, it would open then close immediately.. it was out of warranty and no one would take a look at it. I haven't owned a Pioneer since. I feel they are over priced for what they are, but that is just my opinion. __________________ ___________________________________

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