With HDMI 1.4 on the Way...Is It Wise to Wait to Buy a New Player?

Has anyone seen this information yet?

http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...dmi-1-4-626951

Seems pretty soon, our beloved HDMI 1.3a equipped gear may be ready to go the way of the Do Do Bird...is it wise to wait for this new standard and application to arrive before going out and investing in a Blu-ray player now?

Does anyone think 1.4 will be that ground breaking outside of the 3D implementation?

I am not worried about it at all, because there's no format that supports 3840 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz, 25Hz and 30Hz or 4096 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz. Even if there was do you think the local HD channels and Dish Network are going to follow suit?

The official word from HDMI.org is that "most of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4 will require a new HDMI chip to enable, and cannot be upgraded via firmware." That said, with 3D TV in its infancy and 720p/1080p HD TV only just gaining a consumer foothold, HDMI 1.3 still delivers the goods. You could argue that you don't even need an integrated data channel, as new TVs and set-top boxes are now including Ethernet jacks as standard.

All I see useful in the beginning is not having to have an ethernet cable and an HDMI 1.3 for your Blu-ray player.

•4K x 2K Resolution support
And you thought Full HD was the best resolution a TV could get. Something called the RED camera is doing the rounds at the moment, which shoots footage up to 4K (4x that of 1080p), which is so clear it will make your eyes bleed.

Give it a few years and 4K sets will be in the home market place, with some projectors already capable of showing this type of content.

HDMI 1.4 will allow support for 4K x 2K. With formats supported including: 3840 x 2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096 x 2160 24Hz.


The digital transition just started, consumers are still trying to keep up with 1080p flat panel TV's and ditching their old analog TV's. The economy is very bad right now, I expect all this support for 4K x 2K HDTV resolutions to be quite a bit longer than a few years! With the 100Mbps specification I feel sorry for all those people that purchased HDMI cables from Monster Cable at their monster price! :lol:

I sure can't say that I know what is going to happen so I don't know whether or not having HDMI 1.4 devices will be essential in one year or ten years or ever. I can only say I considered the issue and decided I wouldn't wait and now have HDMI 1.3a audio processing, HDMI 1.3 displays and HDMI 1.3 sources so if something happens and I regret that, I will just have to live with it. After all, all of my collection of DVD-V/CD/Blu-ray/HD DVD/SACD/DVD-A discs will not benefit from HDMI 1.4 to the best of my knowledge. HDMI 1.3a added the last features that can mean anything to my existing software and hardware collection.

There are a lot of factors that might impact what happens, not the least of which is that the consumer electronics companies are all battling for marketshare with profit margins almost non-existent so I am sure they all want to leave this situation and move on to something that can actually generate adequate profits. Blu-ray players offer the slimmest of margins and HDTV's aren't high profit products any longer either. My guess is that HDMI 1.4 equipment with the new features will linger at high prices with very low demand for some number of years. I don't even remember all of the things that HDMI 1.4 will mean are possible and don't care.

Chris

The demand for HDMI 1.4 will target the ultra high-end front projectors, acceptance of HDMI 1.4 will take longer than people think. You must first have HD content capable of 4096 x 2160 resolution, then you need the displays capable of this very high resolution. Look at how long it took for the acceptance of HDTV's, remember it all started before 2001. There is no market ultra high resolution flat panel displays, look at how long its taking for consumers to go out and finely buy that HDTV.

The demand for HDMI 1.4 will target the ultra high-end front projectors, acceptance of HDMI 1.4 will take longer than people think. You must first have HD content capable of 4096 x 2160 resolution, then you need the displays capable of this very high resolution. Look at how long it took for the acceptance of HDTV's, remember it all started before 2001. There is no market ultra high resolution flat panel displays, look at how long its taking for consumers to go out and finely buy that HDTV.

I think the US is now at about 50% of homes with an HDTV, which means despite the economy, growth is robust. As far as how quickly the market will move to Ultra HD, or whatever it will be called, I don't have any idea. It will certainly be a lot slower than the move to the current HDTV standard has been.

I really expect it to be a high priced tiny niche market for a long time and give the companies participating good profit margins on small quantities sold. That is fine with me, I think the benefit/cost ratio will be minimal for most of us. I don't have a room large enough to use a 200" screen.

As long as it takes Peter to make a decision on a new player, I think he should start focusing on what will come after HDMI 1.4 and 4096 x 2160 resolution. He surely can't make a decision before that becomes obsolete.

Chris

While I'll leave Chris and his ongoing tirade of continuously bashing my indecisiveness in terms of a new BD player (which I am glad I can boast of due to the fact that excellent players like the Oppo are arriving), I will say this to the argument of HDMI 1.4...it seems the higher resolutions it is capable of carrying are tempting; IMO, 1080p can still be yet improved upon.

But do we have to worry about our current 1.3a-equipped receivers, processors and gear being obsolete in the very soon future?

While I'll leave Chris and his ongoing tirade of continuously bashing my indecisiveness in terms of a new BD player (which I am glad I can boast of due to the fact that excellent players like the Oppo are arriving), I will say this to the argument of HDMI 1.4...it seems the higher resolutions it is capable of carrying are tempting; IMO, 1080p can still be yet improved upon.

But do we have to worry about our current 1.3a-equipped receivers, processors and gear being obsolete in the very soon future?

Nope.. IMO, as long as we can watch/listen to the systems we have now, then it is not obsolete. Heck, even analog stereo isn't obsolete to those only wanting stereo

While I'll leave Chris and his ongoing tirade of continuously bashing my indecisiveness in terms of a new BD player (which I am glad I can boast of due to the fact that excellent players like the Oppo are arriving), I will say this to the argument of HDMI 1.4...it seems the higher resolutions it is capable of carrying are tempting; IMO, 1080p can still be yet improved upon.

But do we have to worry about our current 1.3a-equipped receivers, processors and gear being obsolete in the very soon future?

Ha, you consider my statements a tirade? You have been asking the same questions for over two years trying to decide what to buy to replace your Panasonic DMP-BD10A apparently because it offers subpar DVD performance. Now, you are considering the future transition to HDMI 1.4 as reason to wait a few more years. It is all fine with me, it is one of the funniest ongoing forum sagas ever to me, having started at High Def Digest and continuing here. Next week another new player will be released and that one will require the same questions once again.

Chris

Nope.. IMO, as long as we can watch/listen to the systems we have now, then it is not obsolete. Heck, even analog stereo isn't obsolete to those only wanting stereo

Well, of course that's true, Stew, but what I meant was, with the advent of HDMI 1.4 on the horizon, will what we purchased recently (such as 1.3 equipped receivers) no longer serve a function once that new standard arrives?

HDMI versions are backward compatible so your HDMI 1.3 gear will work to the limits of what the HDMI 1.3 spec allows.

There is always something new coming down the pike so the mfg can get us propeller heads to buy it, so if you keep waiting for the next thing, you will never have a buy in point as electronics change all the time. ;)

It is just like computers in the 90s and everyone who didn't have a computer worried that anything they buy now will become obsolete in a matter of months. If they waited they would still be waiting today. I just told them you need to jump in sometime and now is as good a time as any. :D

HDMI versions are backward compatible so your HDMI 1.3 gear will work to the limits of what the HDMI 1.3 spec allows.

There is always something new coming down the pike so the mfg can get us propeller heads to buy it, so if you keep waiting for the next thing, you will never have a buy in point as electronics change all the time. ;)

It is just like computers in the 90s and everyone who didn't have a computer worried that anything they buy now will become obsolete in a matter of months. If they waited they would still be waiting today. I just told them you need to jump in sometime and now is as good a time as any. :D

You don't think maybe if someone would wait for HDMI 1.5 players, they would be safe and not have to worry about further player revisions improving on the HDMI 1.5 possibilities? I don't know but I was thinking HDMI 1.5 is the standard that Peter should wait for and settle on.

If not HDMI 1.5, surely HDMI 1.6 is safe.

Chris

If you have the bread to take home a display that requires 1.4 in the next few years, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to swing a new BD at that time.

Is BD even capable of doing anything(essential, not just a tad more convenient like ethernet) that can't be done with 1.3?

There is always something new coming down the pike so the mfg can get us propeller heads to buy it, so if you keep waiting for the next thing, you will never have a buy in point as electronics change all the time. ;)

It is just like computers in the 90s and everyone who didn't have a computer worried that anything they buy now will become obsolete in a matter of months. If they waited they would still be waiting today. I just told them you need to jump in sometime and now is as good a time as any. :D

You took the words right out of my mouth PFC5!

Peter, buy the Oppo BD player and start to enjoy it now and whatever comes next year might not even be worth buying. I played this waiting game years ago and it drove me CRAZY, so I had to accept that there will always be something better on the horizon. When I was building my computer 2 years ago I knew that my 8800GTX videocard would become obsolete within a year, there aren't many games that force me to buy another new card at this time.

Let all the early adopters go through the growing pains and wait for manufacturers to refine its future product releases, early adopters usually pay a small fortune for sub par products. LED TV's are the first thing that comes to mind, :lol:!

BTW HDMI 1.5a will pass both multi-channel audio and video without any compression giving you master quality transfers.

HDMI versions are backward compatible so your HDMI 1.3 gear will work to the limits of what the HDMI 1.3 spec allows.

Right...understandable -- but what about reaching those limitations for what the 1.4 spec allows?

it will be most interesting to see how Monster spins this one,,,and what price tag they apply to it.

Right...understandable -- but what about reaching those limitations for what the 1.4 spec allows?

Have you had a chance to read this?

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#18

Since no equipment is capable of delivering anything the new HDMI 1.4 spec calls for, what difference does it make? Answer, none, none at all.

it will be most interesting to see how Monster spins this one,,,and what price tag they apply to it.

Yes it will since their top of the line HDMI cable is capable of only 14.93 Mbps which nothing uses that much now, and HDMI 1.4 is 100Mbps for the ethernet, multi-channel audio and Full 1080p. Monster is claiming that its Ultra High Speed HDMI cable (14.93Mbps) meets next generation high definition, there's a lack of available bandwidth for ethernets 100Mbps.

Peter, buy the Oppo BD player and start to enjoy it now and whatever comes next year might not even be worth buying.

Thank you for your kind and honest input here; it's what I was seeking in the "point" of the thread...I shall indeed consider it. ;)

Let all the early adopters go through the growing pains and wait for manufacturers to refine its future product releases, early adopters usually pay a small fortune for sub par products. LED TV's are the first thing that comes to mind, :lol:!

I sat out the initial "HD wars" between HD DVD and BD, and that indeed paid off what with HD DVD dying and the initial Toshiba players being absolute pieces of shit off the assembly lines; I have no problem waiting for early adopters to fiddle with stuff, I am just concerned after reading about HDMI 1.4 that there are elements here that we will HAVE to get on board with if we want 3D, etc. etc...

BTW HDMI 1.5a will pass both multi-channel audio and video without any compression giving you master quality transfers.

Huh??? HDMI 1.5a??? :eek::eek::confused::huh:huh:huh

Have you had a chance to read this?

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#18

I am reading it now, Lee...thanks; in a nutshell, what is it suggesting about 1.4?

Huh??? HDMI 1.5a??? :eek::eek::confused::huh:huh:huh

Boy I didn't expect to get you on that one! :lol:

I am reading it now, Lee...thanks; in a nutshell, what is it suggesting about 1.4?

Will any of the new HDMI 1.4 features require a new cable?

The HDMI Ethernet Channel feature will require a new cable that supports this functionality, either a Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet or a High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet, depending on the maximum resolution to be supported. The Automotive Connection System will also employ a new class of cable, the Standard Automotive HDMI cable, which is designed specifically for automotive use. All of the other new HDMI 1.4 features will be compatible with the existing categories of cables.

;)

Will any of the new HDMI 1.4 features require a new cable?;)

Yes you will.

The HDMI 1.4 specification adds a data channel to the HDMI connection, enabling high-speed, bi-directional communication. Connected devices that include this feature can send and receive data via 100 Mb/sec Ethernet, making them instantly ready for any IP-based application. The HDMI Ethernet Channel allows internet-enabled HDMI devices to share an internet connection via the HDMI link, with no need for a separate Ethernet cable. It also provides the connection platform that will allow HDMI-enabled components to share content between devices.

More information can be found here >> http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#18

I'm not seeing where you need a new HDMI cable.

3D video requires substantial data throughput, so you’ll want to use a High Speed HDMI cable (with or without Ethernet).

.............

What kind of cable will I need to use for a 4K x 2K display?

A High Speed HDMI Cable (with or without Ethernet).

It's the same cable with the same connectors? Different marketing terms?

I'm not seeing where you need a new HDMI cable.


The reason why you need a new cable is because of the bandwidth required, theres a lot more bandwidth in HDMI 1.4.

The reason why you need a new cable is because of the bandwidth required, theres a lot more bandwidth in HDMI 1.4.

The ONLY 1.4 feature that reqiuires a new cable (for home use) is the combined HDMI and Ethernet feature which comes in 2 flavors; standard speed and high speed.

You do not need a new cable for the 3D or 4K applications. That is why I posted the HDMI FAQ right from HDMI.org.

Are there any pics of this HDMI+Ethernet deal? If they didn't fully integrate it into the existing setup and it uses different cables, I don't really see the point. You'll still end up with different types of cables, which is what HDMI was to solve in the first place. I'd think wireless Ethernet should start becoming common in these devices that can connect to the net.

Are there any pics of this HDMI+Ethernet deal? If they didn't fully integrate it into the existing setup and it uses different cables, I don't really see the point. You'll still end up with different types of cables, which is what HDMI was to solve in the first place. I'd think wireless Ethernet should start becoming common in these devices that can connect to the net.

Here is a diagram how the HDMI+Ethernet is attached:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hec.aspx

I will see if I can find a picture of the connector

EDIT: NG - no pictures available that I can find.

Well, fellas, I'm more confused on this than ever...

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what pans out with HDMI 1.4, but I feel like we've just settled in to stable, tangible results with 1080p and related equipment to handle it, and now there's a new specification for the High Definition Multimedia Interface that involves new cables, perhaps new receivers and processors...probably new players...:rolleyes:

Well, fellas, I'm more confused on this than ever...

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what pans out with HDMI 1.4, but I feel like we've just settled in to stable, tangible results with 1080p and related equipment to handle it, and now there's a new specification for the High Definition Multimedia Interface that involves new cables, perhaps new receivers and processors...probably new players...:rolleyes:

1.4 is a year off, and probably a couple until affordable gear shows up with it. And then, you'll still be able to plug in your old stuff to new stuff. Anything built in the near future will have conventional HDMI support. Absolutely no reason to hold off on buying a current BD player if you need one. CEMs might even go in another direction and start adopting a new standard, such as Displayport(no royalties) since there's not really any reason to stick with a non backwards compatible new HDMI.

Thanks Hatt...

I started the thread just to get everyone's opinion about the new spec; thank you for your concluding thoughts.

Here is a diagram how the HDMI+Ethernet is attached:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hec.aspx

I will see if I can find a picture of the connector

EDIT: NG - no pictures available that I can find.

So your saying HDMI 1.3 can handle 4K x 2K resolutions? That can't be right.

So your saying HDMI 1.3 can handle 4K x 2K resolutions? That can't be right.

No - what they are saying is that you don't need a new HDMI cable when 3D or 4K arrive. You can still use a cheapie Monoprice cable.

The only application where you must use a new HDMI cable is the Ethernet over HDMI feature and there are 2 speed ratings, S & H.

There are two new "features" that will be coming to BD players next year. The first will be the Managed Copy feature which allows you to legally make a copy of your personally owned BD's. There may be a cost involved. The other feature is 3DTV on BD.

They may use HDMI 1.4 with the first one because you will need to use Ethernet to connect to a server that does the Managed Copy verification and transaction (?). The 3DTV BD player will probably also use HDMI 1.4 especially if the Panasonic 3D system is choosen for 3D which looks very probable.

The confusion is a new version of HDMI (1.4) versus any new required HDMI cable (only for Ethernet over HDMI)

........

........

I couldn't have said it better. :D :lol:













That is morse code right? :p

I couldn't have said it better. :D :lol:













That is morse code right? :p
I keep getting conflicting info the more I read about this 1.4 stuff. I'll just wait a couple of years until something shows up that needs it to figure it out I guess.:)

There are two new "features" that will be coming to BD players next year. The first will be the Managed Copy feature which allows you to legally make a copy of your personally owned BD's. There may be a cost involved. The other feature is 3DTV on BD.

They may use HDMI 1.4 with the first one because you will need to use Ethernet to connect to a server that does the Managed Copy verification and transaction (?). The 3DTV BD player will probably also use HDMI 1.4 especially if the Panasonic 3D system is choosen for 3D which looks very probable.

The confusion is a new version of HDMI (1.4) versus any new required HDMI cable (only for Ethernet over HDMI)

So HDMI version 1.4 is only for 3DTV on BD and ethernet, but not 4K resolution? Most AV gear includes a wireless connection to your wireless network.

So HDMI version 1.4 is only for 3DTV on BD and ethernet, but not 4K resolution? Most AV gear includes a wireless connection to your wireless network.

Yes it's for 4K but I sincerely doubt we will see any soon.

Yes it's for 4K but I sincerely doubt we will see any soon.

I do not even think that there are 50% of house holds that own an HDTV, this 4K won't be for a long time to come. Take a look at Blu-ray, its hasn't even taken off like DVD did in 1998.

So HDMI version 1.4 is only for 3DTV on BD and ethernet, but not 4K resolution? Most AV gear includes a wireless connection to your wireless network.

Since when?? The only thing I have that includes a wireless connection was my PS3.

Since when?? The only thing I have that includes a wireless connection was my PS3.

Samsung offers an optional wireless adapter for their flat panels that connects to your wireless network, so you don't have to run a long ethernet cable long distances. Some new AV receivers have wireless network capabilities built-in, Denon to name a few.

I do not even think that there are 50% of house holds that own an HDTV, this 4K won't be for a long time to come. Take a look at Blu-ray, its hasn't even taken off like DVD did in 1998.

Certainly worldwide, nowhere near 50% of households have an HDTV, but in the US, I read we just reached that milestone recently. Blu-ray is probably in 10% to 15% of US households by now but I haven't been following that number closely. Blu-ray is riding the coattails of HDTV growth and doing really well.

Chris

Samsung offers an optional wireless adapter for their flat panels that connects to your wireless network, so you don't have to run a long ethernet cable long distances. Some new AV receivers have wireless network capabilities built-in, Denon to name a few.

Ok, so not "most" as you said. Samsung is offering an optional adapter. And Denon only names one. Not a few.

Please don't misunderstand, I just want to make sure we keep everything as factual as possible. ;)

From what I've been seeing, we're just now getting to the point where ethernet inputs are being included in most A/V gear. And that's only been as of this years models. Why they're NOT including Wi-Fi is beyond me. It can't possibly raise the cost of the end product that significantly.

From what I've been seeing, we're just now getting to the point where ethernet inputs are being included in most A/V gear. And that's only been as of this years models. Why they're NOT including Wi-Fi is beyond me. It can't possibly raise the cost of the end product that significantly.
I guess they want to sell the after market wireless kits for serious profits. Do any of the Xbox360 have built in wireless yet?

I guess they want to sell the after market wireless kits for serious profits. Do any of the Xbox360 have built in wireless yet?

Nope.

Ok, so not "most" as you said. Samsung is offering an optional adapter. And Denon only names one. Not a few.

Please don't misunderstand, I just want to make sure we keep everything as factual as possible. ;)

From what I've been seeing, we're just now getting to the point where ethernet inputs are being included in most A/V gear. And that's only been as of this years models. Why they're NOT including Wi-Fi is beyond me. It can't possibly raise the cost of the end product that significantly.

The LGBD390 also has a wireless card.

The LGBD390 also has a wireless card.

And from what I can tell only two SA players have built in Wi-Fi. The LG you stated above and the BD-S560 from Sony.

Of course the cost of adding wireless is material to the profits of any of these budget priced Blu-ray players. Immaterial to the total cost doesn't matter at all, the profits on a $200 Blu-ray player are not much and the cost of wireless internet might easily be 50% of the profits.

Chris

Of course the cost of adding wireless is material to the profits of any of these budget priced Blu-ray players. Immaterial to the total cost doesn't matter at all, the profits on a $200 Blu-ray player are not much and the cost of wireless internet might easily be 50% of the profits.

Chris

Assuming about a total $40.00 profit if that 50% of profits number is accurate, then they can just raise the price of the wifi units by $20-30.00 over the non-wifi models, and still keep the same or better margins.

I would certainly like to see more wifi components come out especially for bedrooms that tend to be on the top floor of houses and hard to run wired Ethernet to. As BD takes over from SD DVD having network access will be more important for updates and for BD-Live if they get something good content for this feature eventually.

I guess they want to sell the after market wireless kits for serious profits. Do any of the Xbox360 have built in wireless yet?

I would never go wireless on a gaming PC or Xbox360 gaming system!

I would never go wireless on a gaming PC or Xbox360 gaming system!
My PS3 worked just fine at gaming with the wireless option. Maybe I just wasn't good enough to know the difference however.:o

My PS3 worked just fine at gaming with the wireless option. Maybe I just wasn't good enough to know the difference however.:o

I have had many friends try wireless networks while PC gaming online, they aways hop and teleport around. I had a wireless lazer mouse that would cut in and out every few seconds, never again!

I have had many friends try wireless networks while PC gaming online, they aways hop and teleport around. I had a wireless lazer mouse that would cut in and out every few seconds, never again!
Buy better stuff I guess. I've never had any trouble with a wireless mouse.:what:

Buy better stuff I guess. I've never had any trouble with a wireless mouse.:what:

Me neither and I have been using one for years (wireless KB too)

Now - the wireless Ethernet in my PC?

:banghead:

Finally hard wired it (PIA)

Me neither and I have been using one for years (wireless KB too)


Well we certainly know your keyboard's working just fine... Just look at your post count! :lol::lol::lol:

:busy::busy::busy::busy::busy::busy:

;)

Well we certainly your keyboard's working just fine... Just look at your post count! :lol::lol::lol:

:busy::busy::busy::busy::busy::busy:

;)

:roflmao: Lee can be one of testers for equipment like that. No need to design special machines for that task.:thumbsup:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/LOL-Calvin_and_Hobbes.jpg

Guys,

In trying to get the thread back on topic a bit, so what's everyone's concluding concensus on 1.4? Do we need to just wait and see what pans out with the specification? There's no need to "panic" right now regarding our current equipment, is there?

Don't worry about it or delay any purchases because of it is my opinion, and I am sure most everyone else's as well.

Things are always changing and if you wait for that to stop before buying you will not buy until a format is already dead, and then the wait start agains with no end.

It will likely be 2-3 years before affordable equipment will be available and remember. To utilize this 1.4 version you have to replace ALL the equipment in the chain (i.e. display, BD player, receiver, etc) to benefit from it so just forget about it. ;)

Guys,

In trying to get the thread back on topic a bit, so what's everyone's concluding concensus on 1.4? Do we need to just wait and see what pans out with the specification? There's no need to "panic" right now regarding our current equipment, is there?

I still have plans to buy an Oppo Blu-ray player on September 3, I will not be an early adopter of new technology ever again! When DVD first started out I remember it took quite a while for it to takeoff, look at Blu-ray, it's still gaining momentum but still slower than even DVD. Do you really want to be the first person to take 3D HDTV home with little software support and the growing pains that comes with new technology?

Don't worry about it or delay any purchases because of it is my opinion, and I am sure most everyone else's as well.

Things are always changing and if you wait for that to stop before buying you will not buy until a format is already dead, and then the wait start agains with no end.

It will likely be 2-3 years before affordable equipment will be available and remember. To utilize this 1.4 version you have to replace ALL the equipment in the chain (i.e. display, BD player, receiver, etc) to benefit from it so just forget about it. ;)

I agree with you 100% PFC5, at some point you have to start enjoying what you have. I have a top of the line Denon AV receiver that CAN NOT ever pass through 480p component video let aloan any HDMI inputs, yet I still enjoy it. I'm a believer in taking the video feed directly to the display and PCM/bitstream audio to the AV receiver.

This way each input on my display is custom set to the source instead of everything on one input. I have had my Denon receiver for almost 9 years and plan on upgrading it when I need to, probably when HDMI 1.4 gets everything worked out and most AV receiver have it.

Quit torchering yourself!

...To utilize this 1.4 version you have to replace ALL the equipment in the chain (i.e. display, BD player, receiver, etc) to benefit from it so just forget about it. ;)

That's exactly what I'm concerned with...:rolleyes::banghead:

Quit torchering yourself!

...I believe that's torturing yourself...;)

Just gettin' back at 'cha for your comments about my Onkyo and gear! :crying::crying:

It's all in good fun.

Are HDMI 1.4 devices going to be backwards-compatible with older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices?

Yes, devices built to the HDMI 1.4 specification will be fully backwards-compatible with existing HDMI devices and their features.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#6

That's exactly what I'm concerned with...:rolleyes::banghead:

So unless you are planning to replace all your gear connected through an HDMI connection, I wouldn't worry about one piece of equipment you buy now that matches what you have now for the other gear (1.3) (except your HDTV). If you wait for a HDMI 1.4 BD player to be released at a price you can afford you will likely be waiting 1-2 more years and going without an up to date BD player. By the time you plan to replace all components to HDMI 1.4 the BD players will likely cost much less than they do now, so just enjoy the Oppo now and worry about everything else when you plan on replacing all other components. ;)


Are HDMI 1.4 devices going to be backwards-compatible with older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices?


http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#6

Yes so if you later connect a HDMI 1.4 device to a 1.3 version device you will still get all the features of that 1.3 device but will just not get the 1.4 features which are really not going to change the quality much if any IMO.

Yes so if you later connect a HDMI 1.4 device to a 1.3 version device you will still get all the features of that 1.3 device but will just not get the 1.4 features which are really not going to change the quality much if any IMO.

The issue is the receiver as an HDMI controller as I see it.

If I have a 1.4 BD player (for 3D) and a 1.4 3D equipped HDTV - will I be able to use my current 1.3 spec'd receiver and still have the 3D signal pass through the receiver and get to the 3DTV with no issues?

AFAIK - yes - that will work.

The issue is the receiver as an HDMI controller as I see it.

If I have a 1.4 BD player (for 3D) and a 1.4 3D equipped HDTV - will I be able to use my current 1.3 spec'd receiver and still have the 3D signal pass through the receiver and get to the 3DTV with no issues?

AFAIK - yes - that will work.

I have always believed that when connecting a BD player to an HDTV, go from the BD player directly to the HDTV, then send the multi-channel audio to the AV receiver. I like to be able to fine tune each input on your HDTV individually, this way I don't have to make changes to the controls between HD broadcasting and Blu-ray. In the past I had to adjust the brightness a little everytime I change from one source to another.

I have always believed that when connecting a BD player to an HDTV, go from the BD player directly to the HDTV, then send the multi-channel audio to the AV receiver. I like to be able to fine tune each input on your HDTV individually, this way I don't have to make changes to the controls between HD broadcasting and Blu-ray. In the past I had to adjust the brightness a little everytime I change from one source to another.

One very nice thing about the Oppo is that you can adjust the Oppo picture so that it can match the gamma, contrast, brightness, color saturation levels are a match for how you have your display adjusted for cable/sat sources inside the player.

If you think you can get all channels to match up or look the same, you will be disappointed. They seem to differ quite a bit so adjusting for each channel will likely drive you crazy. I have gotten beyond that point myself. At some point it still comes back to being about the content first and most importantly. ;)

EDIT:

Another thing that is different when you use a digital connection like HDMI is that you usually will not get any data lost like with analog connections running through the receivers.

One very nice thing about the Oppo is that you can adjust the Oppo picture so that it can match the gamma, contrast, brightness, color saturation levels are a match for how you have your display adjusted for cable/sat sources inside the player.

If you think you can get all channels to match up or look the same, you will be disappointed. They seem to differ quite a bit so adjusting for each channel will likely drive you crazy. I have gotten beyond that point myself. At some point it still comes back to being about the content first and most importantly. ;)

EDIT:

Another thing that is different when you use a digital connection like HDMI is that you usually will not get any data lost like with analog connections running through the receivers.

I don't have an issue with HD channels looking abit different from channel to channel, only from source to source. Once I have my HDTV LCD the way I want it to look, I can simply mess with the Oppo's settings and fine tune abit, right?

I don't have an issue with HD channels looking abit different from channel to channel, only from source to source. Once I have my HDTV LCD the way I want it to look, I can simply mess with the Oppo's settings and fine tune abit, right?

Yes you can match the Oppo output to the other sources since the player has these options in the player. I think this is a great feature and it is really necessary when we run our devices through the receivert for the HD audio and cannot use independent input picture settings because of this.

I have always believed that when connecting a BD player to an HDTV, go from the BD player directly to the HDTV, then send the multi-channel audio to the AV receiver. I like to be able to fine tune each input on your HDTV individually, this way I don't have to make changes to the controls between HD broadcasting and Blu-ray. In the past I had to adjust the brightness a little everytime I change from one source to another.

I too prefer the multichannel analog audio, especially with the Oppo, it does sound better and there have been many great discussions about this particular topic. :D

I too prefer the multichannel analog audio, especially with the Oppo, it does sound better and there have been many great discussions about this particular topic. :D

Are you saying that the multichannel audio through HDMI doesn't sound as good as the multichannel via analog output?

Are you saying that the multichannel audio through HDMI doesn't sound as good as the multichannel via analog output?

Sometimes, that is true...particularly with music.

This is beginning to bring up the whole "separating audio from video" out of a source debacle again, so video can be passed via HDMI for 1080p resolution, and audio can then be passed via multichannel analog in order to get the high resolution formats passed to a receiver or processor (assuming the source deck can decode these into multichannel analog)...

So, now, are we to believe that people like me, who send their audio and video over one HDMI cable to a processor/receiver, where the audio is processed onboard but the video is then passed to a display, are not really hearing what we're supposed to? :huh:what::banghead:

This is beginning to bring up the whole "separating audio from video" out of a source debacle again, so video can be passed via HDMI for 1080p resolution, and audio can then be passed via multichannel analog in order to get the high resolution formats passed to a receiver or processor (assuming the source deck can decode these into multichannel analog)...

So, now, are we to believe that people like me, who send their audio and video over one HDMI cable to a processor/receiver, where the audio is processed onboard but the video is then passed to a display, are not really hearing what we're supposed to? :huh:what::banghead:

The only reason why I choose to have my Dish Network HD programing on HDMI input #1 and my Blu-ray on HDMI input #2 is because each input allows for two separate calibrations. I don't expect HD programing to look exactly the same as Blu-ray, brightness and contrast settings might need to be different. My old Panasonic 27" inch HDTV I had to share inputs with two sources and changing the brightness everytime I switch between the two, I don't like that.

This is beginning to bring up the whole "separating audio from video" out of a source debacle again, so video can be passed via HDMI for 1080p resolution, and audio can then be passed via multichannel analog in order to get the high resolution formats passed to a receiver or processor (assuming the source deck can decode these into multichannel analog)...

So, now, are we to believe that people like me, who send their audio and video over one HDMI cable to a processor/receiver, where the audio is processed onboard but the video is then passed to a display, are not really hearing what we're supposed to? :huh:what::banghead:

Not necessarily. HDMI delivers audio just fine. With the Oppo though, multichannel audio via analog cable inputs/outputs just sounds a bit better, especially if you are an audiophile. This is only true for some soundtracks but in particular for DVD Audio discs. The analog multichannel audio section of the Oppo is a step ahead of most all other Blu-ray players. The everyday, normal user may not or probably wont even notice a difference as the HDMI multichannel audio is as good as any.

Hope that clears things up a bit for you.

Not necessarily. HDMI delivers audio just fine. With the Oppo though, multichannel audio via analog cable inputs/outputs just sounds a bit better, especially if you are an audiophile. This is only true for some soundtracks but in particular for DVD Audio discs. The analog multichannel audio section of the Oppo is a step ahead of most all other Blu-ray players. The everyday, normal user may not or probably wont even notice a difference as the HDMI multichannel audio is as good as any.

Hope that clears things up a bit for you.

So, am I to understand that the Oppo's multichannel output is better suited and sonically adept at DVD-Audio and SACD?

Blu-ray and DVD-V audio will pass just as good as it does on any other source deck via the Oppo's HDMI out?

So, am I to understand that the Oppo's multichannel output is better suited and sonically adept at DVD-Audio and SACD?

Blu-ray and DVD-V audio will pass just as good as it does on any other source deck via the Oppo's HDMI out?

I think he means that the multichannel 7.1 analog output sounds better than via HDMI when listening to DVD Audio discs. There's only a handle full of receivers out there that can pass DSD (Sony's Direct Stream Digital) through HDMI.

I think he means that the multichannel 7.1 analog output sounds better than via HDMI when listening to DVD Audio discs.

That's what I thought.

There's only a handle full of receivers out there that can pass DSD (Sony's Direct Stream Digital) through HDMI.

I know. ;)

I think he means that the multichannel 7.1 analog output sounds better than via HDMI when listening to DVD Audio discs. There's only a handle full of receivers out there that can pass DSD (Sony's Direct Stream Digital) through HDMI.

And on many Blu-ray discs as well but it is not a problem with the HDMI audio output as the Oppo performs just as well as any other player using multichannel audio via HDMI. The point here is that using the analog multichannel audio can be better, and that is saying a lot.

Are you saying that the multichannel audio through HDMI doesn't sound as good as the multichannel via analog output?This is highly dependent on the specific equipment involved. The Oppo's analog output will likely outperform some receivers, but not others.

This is highly dependent on the specific equipment involved. The Oppo's analog output will likely outperform some receivers, but not others.

I totally agree with you on this, those of you out there with even entry level to mid-end receivers might very well fine the Oppo doing a better job through its multichannel analog outputs. This is one area where the Oppo has an advantage over many BD players! I wouldn't be surprised if the Oppo outperformed my high-end Denon receiver.

Anyone recommend a 5.1 analog cables package of good quality?

Sorry 'bout the double post, not my fault though...

I totally agree with you on this, those of you out there with even entry level to mid-end receivers might very well fine the Oppo doing a better job through its multichannel analog outputs. This is one area where the Oppo has an advantage over many BD players! I wouldn't be surprised if the Oppo outperformed my high-end Denon receiver.

Anyone recommend a 5.1 analog cables package of good quality?

www.monoprice.com where I get all of my cables, and they work as intended!

The point here is that using the analog multichannel audio can be better, and that is saying a lot.

I'm curious, though, as to what characteristic physically or theoretically creates the notion that the analog multichannel audio can be "better" -- it's a very vague reference, just looking at it on paper, so to speak.

I'm curious, though, as to what characteristic physically or theoretically creates the notion that the analog multichannel audio can be "better" -- it's a very vague reference, just looking at it on paper, so to speak.

It is not a notion, it is a fact. Read the reviews, better yet audition one for yourself.

I'm tired of this thread, seez ya laterz...

It is not a notion, it is a fact. Read the reviews, better yet audition one for yourself.

I'm tired of this thread, seez ya laterz...

L2W...

The statement of "multichannel audio sounds better..." is indeed a notion; I'm sure it's perception. I just wanted to know what is sounding "better" over the multichannel outs. I'm not running SACD or DVD-A, so if that's the only loss on that front, I'm okay with multichannel audio over HDMI -- actually, I'll be bitstreaming all the codecs, so the point is moot.

Well, see ya lata...:hithere:

It is not a notion, it is a fact. Read the reviews, better yet audition one for yourself.

I'm tired of this thread, seez ya laterz...

I don't think Peter even wants to buy another BD player let aloan the Oppo BDP-83, no matter how many times we tell him that it has the best sound, best video playback of any BD player on the market, its never enough!

Peter you read all the owner's reviews including Amazon, right? You have heard from actual owners of the Oppo being the best BD player on the market even when compared to the extremely expensive Denon BD player, whats the problem? Why haven't you acted on all we have given you? It never seems enough for you, it seems all you want to do is talk. Its been 2 years now, at some point you have to buy.

I just wanted to know what is sounding "better" over the multichannel outs.

Buy one and findout, thats half the fun Peter!

I don't think Peter even wants to buy another BD player let aloan the Oppo BDP-83, no matter how many times we tell him that it has the best sound, best video playback of any BD player on the market, its never enough!

This is untrue. "Think" is the operative word in your first sentence -- and what you're thinking is incorrect. I do want to buy a new player; just need to make sure it's the right one.

Peter you read all the owner's reviews including Amazon, right? You have heard from actual owners of the Oppo being the best BD player on the market even when compared to the extremely expensive Denon BD player, whats the problem? Why haven't you acted on all we have given you? It never seems enough for you, it seems all you want to do is talk. Its been 2 years now, at some point you have to buy.



Buy one and findout, thats half the fun Peter!

While this borders on a bit of insulting, I will address the last statement here -- I wish we could all just "buy one" to find out if the hoopla surrounding a player is true. Unfortunately, it costs real-world dollars. I don't have a trust fund sitting around, do you? I'm being sarcastic and fecicious here, but you understand my point, I hope.

This is untrue. "Think" is the operative word in your first sentence -- and what you're thinking is incorrect. I do want to buy a new player; just need to make sure it's the right one.

You haven't done anything in the last 2 years to make us think otherwise, even now. I am not the only person here that thinks you have no intention of buying a BD player.

I will address the last statement here -- I wish we could all just "buy one" to find out if the hoopla surrounding a player is true. Unfortunately, it costs real-world dollars. I don't have a trust fund sitting around, do you? I'm being sarcastic and fecicious here, but you understand my point, I hope.

You obviously have not read the reviews at Amazon reviewed by actual owners giving the Oppo 35 five Star ratings out of 36, on top of this is Home Theater magazine's full review and still you act as though you don't have enough information to make an intelligent decision to buy. I wish you would address "everything" and not just the stuff you can twist into words against me. You seem to be only addressing the questions which are easy to twist into your web of logic, which seriously is flawed.

If you keep adding players to compare you will NEVER buy one Peter. At some point you should think about narrowing your choice with process of elimination, but you seem to be doing the opposite.


The statement directly above is the flawed logic I am referring to. Tell you what, you give me a list of features you are looking for in a BD player and we'll see if the Oppo covers them all. Either give me a list of features you would like to have on a new BD player or we can sit here and talk about BD players for 2 more years. :hithere:

The absolute best, most feature packed and capable BD player will be released a little before BD is replaced by something else that's better. Maybe that's a good time to buy one.:error Hope this helps.:D

I could spend all day going back and forth with Tech -- who has become increasingly more hostile with the more people like Hatt who egg and soldier him on -- defending my position about how I'm genuinely in the questioning stage of a new player and how it just doesn't seem to matter to anyone that the budget is a huge concern here, but it's just going to fall on blind eyes and then concurrently on "broken fingertips."

Once the "gang" mentality of this forum begins to rear its ugly head, it's time to merely ignore such commentary by saying it's blatantly obvious what some members are doing to others on here -- PAINFULLY so at times -- and hit the "unsubscribe" option.

Sad. Truly. Because some people really ARE attempting to research all there is about HDMI 1.4 and arriving Blu-ray players. :rolleyes:

I could spend all day going back and forth with Tech -- who has become increasingly more hostile with the more people like Hatt who egg and soldier him on -- defending my position about how I'm genuinely in the questioning stage of a new player and how it just doesn't seem to matter to anyone that the budget is a huge concern here, but it's just going to fall on blind eyes and then concurrently on "broken fingertips."

Once the "gang" mentality of this forum begins to rear its ugly head, it's time to merely ignore such commentary by saying it's blatantly obvious what some members are doing to others on here -- PAINFULLY so at times -- and hit the "unsubscribe" option.

Sad. Truly. Because some people really ARE attempting to research all there is about HDMI 1.4 and arriving Blu-ray players. :rolleyes:

I have become increasingly more frustrated with your endless questions and inability to act on informed reviews and other posters advice that you continue to disagree with, why are you even hear if your going to be doing that? I'm not the only one thats frustrated with you Peter, I have been here what 2 months and in that time I have made an informed intelligent decision to buy the Oppo BDP-83 in just a few hours from now.

Answer these questions Peter, does the Oppo do everything that you want in a BD player? (1) You want a BD player that upscales DVD's with pristine HD picture quality, (2) Fast load times, (3) You want all of the HD audio formats such as DTS HD MA and Dolby TrueHD, and excellent build quality. The Oppo offers that and more, thats what everyone is saying to you. Yet you still can't make a decision to by a BD player, even after 2 years. You seem to be ignoring my previous posts and refuse to address them, is it because they tell the truth and make sense? The truth is there making sense and theres no way to address them without looking... I see right through you Peter. :hithere: