Cables and Surge Protector

Hello everybody at the forum:hithere:. I am about to go true HD for the first time and am just looking for a little help.

I am going to buy a Sony KDL 46 Z5100. I have an Xbox 360, PS3, and have Optimum from Cablevision so will be getting a HD Cable Box once I get the TV. In a few months I will get a sound system too but don't have the money right now.

I just want to know what cables will be best for my TV and hardware. I've seen all over this forum to avoid monster and order from monoprice. I took a look at the site but I'm not sure which cables would be best for me. I 'm going to use all HDMI and they only need to be at most 6ft each.

My other question is what kind of surge protector should I get. I have APC's on my computers and Big Screen (Sony 53 in Rear Projection 4:3 720p thats why I say this will be my first true HDTV) but I'm not sure if they're what I really need. I lost a computer in my house to a surge, had one on there but it was nothing special thats why I bought the APC's but it was kind of a rush buy w/ no research. I just want good protection for a good price.

If you value your TV get an APC 1500 UPS, connect your TV and cable box to it. Throw away your surge protectors they are junk.

I have APC BR1500's for my tvs. With the up and down power cycles during thunderstorms here I never see the TV shut down due to lack of power. If the outage is longer than a minute or so I turn off the TVs. These are a must if you get these types of power problems.
BD

Thank you. I looked at the APC 1500 UPS and I see they are a few hundred dollars. I know I am asking for you're help so don't want to act like I'm not taking it seriously but I do not have the money for a $350 UPS. Is there is anything more reasonable or should I wait until I can buy that.

Also can anyone help w/ letting me know which rated cables I should get?

This would certainly do the trick for you - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FBK3QK/ref=nosim/panandscathed-20

Also have you considered plasma TV's? They would give you a picture more like your projection set and are superior to any LCD, PQ wise...

This would certainly do the trick for you - *had to take link out of quote since i only have 3 posts.

Also have you considered plasma TV's? They would give you a picture more like your projection set and are superior to any LCD, PQ wise...
Thank you, that is a more reasonable solution.

Honestly when I first went into the market for a flatpanel screen I didn't look at Plasmas at all because I heard they were power hogs w/ a shorter life span and that even manufacturers were abandoning the technology. I almost looked exclusively at LCD's unitl the last month. After doing research, reading reviews, and comparing the techs I have seen like you said plasmas offer better PQ, viewing angles, and match or are better in most catergories than LCD's usually for a lower price. I just feel totally lost when looking at Plasamas though because I spent so much time comparing and reading reviews on LCD's.

The TV I really want is the Sony 46z5100. I got a price match w 10%off the difference from Sears for $1549. What Plasmas in that size for around that price are comparable or better.

You don't necessarily need something that big. I got one of mine from Amazon for $150 with free shipping last year. You have to search for deals. Anything with a battery backup that can give you a few minutes of power should work.
BD

Thank you. I looked at the APC 1500 UPS and I see they are a few hundred dollars. I know I am asking for you're help so don't want to act like I'm not taking it seriously but I do not have the money for a $350 UPS. Is there is anything more reasonable or should I wait until I can buy that.

Also can anyone help w/ letting me know which rated cables I should get?

You can a price search on the web for much less- Go ahead and cheap out , It's your TV so if it's not worth that to protect it, save the $350 and get your TV repaired for less.

If you hold out maybe the tax payers will buy you one.

Thank you, that is a more reasonable solution.

Honestly when I first went into the market for a flatpanel screen I didn't look at Plasmas at all because I heard they were power hogs w/ a shorter life span and that even manufacturers were abandoning the technology. I almost looked exclusively at LCD's unitl the last month. After doing research, reading reviews, and comparing the techs I have seen like you said plasmas offer better PQ, viewing angles, and match or are better in most catergories than LCD's usually for a lower price. I just feel totally lost when looking at Plasamas though because I spent so much time comparing and reading reviews on LCD's.

The TV I really want is the Sony 46z5100. I got a price match w 10%off the difference from Sears for $1549. What Plasmas in that size for around that price are comparable or better.

This would be the bomb for you (2 options) - This 50" at 1349.99 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05775579000P?vName=Computers+%26+Ele ctronics&cName=Televisions&sName=Flat+Panel

OR

This 46" for 1149.99 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05775539000P?vName=Computers+%26+Ele ctronics&cName=Televisions&sName=Flat+Panel

In either case it would give you a picture quality more like you are used to, only much better...

http://www.photosnag.com/img/4210/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gifThis would certainly do the trick for you - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FBK3QK/ref=nosim/panandscathed-20

Also have you considered plasma TV's? They would give you a picture more like your projection set and are superior to any LCD, PQ wise...

thats one bad mama jama

I bought the 46Z5100 today. getting it tomorrow, can't wait!! I went ahead and ordered the Cyberpower UPS and 3 year squaretrade warranty from amazon. All I need now are my cables.

Tomorrow is going to be the longest work day ever.

I bought the 46Z5100 today. getting it tomorrow, can't wait!! I went ahead and ordered the Cyberpower UPS and 3 year squaretrade warranty from amazon. All I need now are my cables.

Tomorrow is going to be the longest work day ever.

For all of your cable needs go to www.monoprice.com.

I bought the 46Z5100 today. getting it tomorrow, can't wait!! I went ahead and ordered the Cyberpower UPS and 3 year squaretrade warranty from amazon. All I need now are my cables.

Tomorrow is going to be the longest work day ever.

As for the HDMI cables, these 6 foot, 28 AWG (gauge), cables should fit your needs nicely @ $2.67 each or, you can go buy Monster cables at $49 (or more) and get no better picture :D

Congrats on your TV purchase and welcome to the world of HI-Def!! :hithere:

My other question is what kind of surge protector should I get. ... I lost a computer in my house to a surge, had one on there but it was nothing special thats why I bought the APC's but it was kind of a rush buy w/ no research. I just want good protection for a good price.
View the manufacturer's numeric specifications. See where it lists each type of surge and protection from that surge? Nothing? Exactly. The UPS does not claim protection from typically destructive surges. It has the same protector circuit also found in power strip protectors - but smaller. That means the UPS could even connect a surge to earth destructively through the adjacent computer.

Plug-in UPSes have the same protector circuit. Some ten cent parts. How many joules? A few hundred? How does that absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It does not. But that few hundred joules is enough to claim 'surge protection' in a color glossy sales brochure. A subjective claim is enough for many to assume 100% protection. That is what you have done. Assume.

Where are those protection claims in the manufacturer's specs? Do not exist.

Surge protection means surges do not enter the building. Surges seek earth ground. A surge that is absorbed harmlessly in earth need not go hunting for earth destructively via your computer or TV.

Why do telcos all over the world not waste money on what you have installed? They suffer maybe 100 surges with each thunderstorm and not have damage. How often has your town been without phone service for four days? They install earthed protectors. They waste no money on the power strip protector circuit that is also inside your UPS.

You need one 'whole house' protector from far more responsible companies such as General Electric, Siemens, Keison, Intermatic, Polyphaser, or Leviton. The Cutler Hammer solution sells in Lowes from less than $50. Of course, building earthing must be upgraded to both meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code.

Where does that UPS discuss earthing? They are not selling a solution. A few hundred joules - near zero - was enough to sell you something that does not even provide protection. You saw that yourself - your damaged computer.

Protection is about earthing. Every wire that enter the building must first connect to earth. Connect directly - cable TV, satellite dish. Or connect to earth via a 'whole house' protector - AC electric, telephone. Protection is only as effective as earth ground. A surge that does not enter building - does not hunt for earth via your appliances - is harmlessly earthed before it enters the building.

Great post. I wonder how many die hard believers will read it carefully and learn something.

View the manufacturer's numeric specifications. See where it lists each type of surge and protection from that surge? Nothing? Exactly. The UPS does not claim protection from typically destructive surges. It has the same protector circuit also found in power strip protectors - but smaller. That means the UPS could even connect a surge to earth destructively through the adjacent computer.
I would add to this, since most of those who favor UPS say it is because of protection against brownouts:
All AV equipment operates on low voltage DC or, in the case of flourescent backlights, at least regulated power.
The low voltage DC and regulated power circuits are designed to provide stable outputs over a very wide range of input supply voltages.
It is likely that most UPS or other system with so-called brownout protection is doing nothing better than your modern AV equipment is already capable of managing quite well on it's own.
I can't imagine more than a very few reasons why a normal homeowner would have a need to spend extra money on either UPS or brownout protection for AV equipment. Brownouts do not harm AV equipment.

Point of Information: Since I was unable to find any published information to confirm some of what I wrote above, I decided to run my own experiment.
I plugged my TV into a real cheap elcrappo light dimmer switch (these are the ones that take a perfectly clean 120V 60Hz sine wave as input and deliver a clipped, chopped, nasty ass ugly undefineable waveform on the output to simulate reduced voltage - actually, most of them simply clip the sine wave which does simulate low voltage).
Anyway, the output of these things can't be measured with a standard AC voltmeter, so as an alternative, I plugged a standard incandescent light into the thing as a "control".
As I dimmed the light (noticeably) I could detect no reduction in either picture or audio quality. When the light reached about 25% of it's original luminisity the TV simply shut down. After applying normal power, the TV returned to standby mode and when I pressed the power button, it came on as normal.
Conclusion: brownout protection is a myth.

So, my advise to the OP: If you feel that you must have a surge protector in your stable, find one for $15-$30; buy it based on joule rating and equipment protection warranty (which they may or may not honor), then enjoy your AV.
Then if you feel the need for greater protection, follow westom's advice above and install proper whole house protection.

As I dimmed the light (noticeably) I could detect no reduction in either picture or audio quality. When the light reached about 25% of it's original luminisity the TV simply shut down. Which is a routine test of all electronics. Not to test for damage. To confirm that electronics will operate even at a 25% voltage reduction.

More than 5% reduction may be harmful to electric motors. Just one reason why we know brownouts never exceed normal electronics voltage levels.

A problems with power strip protectors: it does not even claim to protect from typically destructive surges. And costs more money. If electronics need protection, then so does everything else including dishwasher, furnace, and (most important if surges exist) smoke detectors. The effective solution is about $1 per appliance.

Plug-in protectors have a history of contributing to appliance damage. After all, what does it do? Simply give the surge more paths to earth ground. If too far from earth ground, one of those paths can be destructively through the appliance. As engineers, we even traced damage created by plug-in protectors through a network of powered off computers.

Another problem is demonstrated by these scary pictures: (but the system will not yet me provide those examples that most every fire department has seen).

Facilities such as telcos do not use plug-in protectors that cost more money and do not even claim to provide protection. Protection means a typically destructive surge is harmlessly absorbed in earth. Does not enter the building. Otherwise it will hunt for earth destructively via appliances.

Here is a very interesting article.

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/infsurgeprotect.html

I still think it is a bit to friendly toward the idea of point of use suppressors, but one thing for certain is that
the notion of spending a lot of $$$ for a UPS and thinking that something is gained is rather silly.

I have lost count of the amount of times computer and CE power supplies have been damaged due to power outages (actually the surge when the power is restored) which has since been eliminated by using a UPS.

I have lost count of the amount of times computer and CE power supplies have been damaged due to power outages (actually the surge when the power is restored) which has since been eliminated by using a UPS.
How many dishwashers, bathroom GFCIs, clock radios, etc have been destroyed by power outages? Those are also electronics. They also had no protection. For your logic to be honest, all those other electronics must be damaged because they are not on UPSes.

First, power outages are preceded by surges. ‘Power on’ does not create a voltage surge. The most aggressive ‘power on’ (sharpest voltage rise) occurs when one appliance is the only thing powered. The most gentle ‘power on’ is when power is restored – everything powers on simultaneously. That is not what popular myths claim. That is just reality.

If you know power off caused the damage, then you have identified the damaged component and can say what is damaged by power off. I don't know until I have done that analysis at that level. How do you know if you do not learn what has failed? Speculation?

How detailed is the analysis? A network of ‘powered off’ computers were damaged. A surge was incoming on AC mains. Bypassed protection inside both computers because both were plugged into power strip protectors. Through motherboard, network cards, and network. Into a third computer's NIC, through that computer to earth ground via the telephone line 'whole house' protector. Surge is an electrical current. To have a surge, the current must have an incoming and outgoing path. We traced that path. Only then did we know anything.

Did you know all phone lines already have a 'whole house' protector? Most who recommend solutions do not even know about a protector that existed on every home decades before PCs have existed. Few actually know by first learning this stuff.

The point: power strip protectors earthed a surge destructively through the computers. A problem seen often – the reason why in the next paragraph. We replaced those semiconductors to make all computers working again. We did not know anything until an analysis was performed AND then fixed the defects.

What does a protector do? Connects a surge harmlessly to earth. What happens when a protector has no earthing connection? It gives that surge more paths to find earth destructively via appliances. Why do telcos all over the world not waste money on plug-in protectors? Telcos suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm - and must never have damage. Telcos only use protectors that have earthing.

Where is every telco protector to have no damage? It connects a wire to earth - as short as possible. A protector is best located up to 50 meters separated from electronics to further increase protection.

What is done for effective protection is contrary to what is taught in retails stores – urban myths. No protector provides protection. Not even the ‘whole house’ protector. From the NIST (US government research agency):
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
> What these protective devices do is neither suppress nor
> arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground, where it can
> do no harm.

Surge protection has always been about earthing before that energy can enter the building. A surge permitted inside a building will hunt for earth destructively. The above analysis – plug-in protectors earthed a surge through the network of powered off computers. A protector too far from earth and too close to appliances will simply provide surges more paths to find earth destructively via appliances.

Where are protection claims in each plug-in protector’s numeric specs? Post those protection spec numbers? Nobody can. Protection specs do not exist. So why is that plug-in protector promoted? So many know only from what they have heard – junk science reasons – urban myths.

No earth ground means the protector does nothing useful – may even contribute to appliance damage. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Where is energy harmlessly absorbed? In earth.

Here is a very interesting article.
That is full of subjective claims. Where are the numbers? And where does it quote the plug-in protector spec numbers that actually claim protection? No numbers are provided because no plug-in protectors make those claims. Meanwhile an IEEE Standard does put numbers to it.

From IEEE Green Book (Standard 142):
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted
> to a path which will, if well designed and constructed, not result in
> damage. Even this means is not positive, providing only 99.5-99.9%
> protection. ...
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes
> from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...

Let's see. We properly earth one 'whole house' protector to have only 99.5% protection. That costs about $1 per protected appliance. Then we install a $25 or $150 per appliance protector to add how much more protection? 0.2%?

Even telcos, that must suffer 100 surges with each storm and must not have damage, do not waste money on that plug-in protector. Why do so many 'subjectively' promote it? No facts. No numbers.

Essential to protect the home from protector fire (scary pictures will be provided when the board permits those pictures to be posted) - one 'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance.

Numbers say how effective. Money says plug-in protectors are obscenely overpriced. Money better spent to upgrade earthing. Why? You have the numbers. You have the pictures.

Scams are promoted by subjective claims. Believed because a majority recommends it? Provided are damning numbers from responsible sources. Where are numbers from any plug-in protector that claims protection? Never provided.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

How many dishwashers, bathroom GFCIs, clock radios, etc have been destroyed by power outages? Those are also electronics. They also had no protection. For your logic to be honest, all those other electronics must be damaged because they are not on UPSes.

First, power outages are preceded by surges. ‘Power on’ does not create a voltage surge. The most aggressive ‘power on’ (sharpest voltage rise) occurs when one appliance is the only thing powered. The most gentle ‘power on’ is when power is restored – everything powers on simultaneously. That is not what popular myths claim. That is just reality.

If you know power off caused the damage, then you have identified the damaged component and can say what is damaged by power off. I don't know until I have done that analysis at that level. How do you know if you do not learn what has failed? Speculation?

How detailed is the analysis? A network of ‘powered off’ computers were damaged. A surge was incoming on AC mains. Bypassed protection inside both computers because both were plugged into power strip protectors. Through motherboard, network cards, and network. Into a third computer's NIC, through that computer to earth ground via the telephone line 'whole house' protector. Surge is an electrical current. To have a surge, the current must have an incoming and outgoing path. We traced that path. Only then did we know anything.

Did you know all phone lines already have a 'whole house' protector? Most who recommend solutions do not even know about a protector that existed on every home decades before PCs have existed. Few actually know by first learning this stuff.

The point: power strip protectors earthed a surge destructively through the computers. A problem seen often – the reason why in the next paragraph. We replaced those semiconductors to make all computers working again. We did not know anything until an analysis was performed AND then fixed the defects.

What does a protector do? Connects a surge harmlessly to earth. What happens when a protector has no earthing connection? It gives that surge more paths to find earth destructively via appliances. Why do telcos all over the world not waste money on plug-in protectors? Telcos suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm - and must never have damage. Telcos only use protectors that have earthing.

Where is every telco protector to have no damage? It connects a wire to earth - as short as possible. A protector is best located up to 50 meters separated from electronics to further increase protection.

What is done for effective protection is contrary to what is taught in retails stores – urban myths. No protector provides protection. Not even the ‘whole house’ protector. From the NIST (US government research agency):
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
> What these protective devices do is neither suppress nor
> arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground, where it can
> do no harm.

Surge protection has always been about earthing before that energy can enter the building. A surge permitted inside a building will hunt for earth destructively. The above analysis – plug-in protectors earthed a surge through the network of powered off computers. A protector too far from earth and too close to appliances will simply provide surges more paths to find earth destructively via appliances.

Where are protection claims in each plug-in protector’s numeric specs? Post those protection spec numbers? Nobody can. Protection specs do not exist. So why is that plug-in protector promoted? So many know only from what they have heard – junk science reasons – urban myths.

No earth ground means the protector does nothing useful – may even contribute to appliance damage. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Where is energy harmlessly absorbed? In earth.

While your "theory" might be solid your conclusions are not. This is the real world and in my quite extensive designing. planning, troubleshooting and implementation, CE devices are much more susceptible to minor voltage spikes than large appliances. GFCI's may help but a good UPS that absorbs the surge in the battery is a very good solution no matter what you may opine.

While your "theory" might be solid your conclusions are not. This is the real world and in my quite extensive designing. planning, troubleshooting and implementation, CE devices are much more susceptible to minor voltage spikes than large appliances.
First, I'm not yet convinced that CE devices are susceptible to minor spikes at all.
If so, what's the definition of "minor".

Second, susceptibility of CE devices as opposed to large appliances may certainly have been the case in the past (I still have a refigerator with manual controls, for example). However most new large appliances contain microprocessor controllers and there would be no rational reason for them to be any less susceptible than a CE device. Lest we forget, the first stage in any of these devices is an AC to DC power supply to power the rest of the goodies; that's the equipment's "first line of defense", whether it be a CE device or an appliance.

GFCI's may help but a good UPS that absorbs the surge in the battery is a very good solution no matter what you may opine.
Either I am woefully misinformed or that's a smoke and mirrors gimmick.
A UPS will "kick in" in low power conditions; at other times, the the battery is out of the circuit and on "trickle charge".
If you're suggesting that there is some "super circuitry" in UPSs that senses a surge and then reacts fast enough to place the battery in harms way, rather than shutting down, I find that extremely difficult to believe.
If you're suggesting that the battery is in-line 100% of the time, that's equally difficult to believe.
In either case, I would have to see some proof in the form of specifications to get me to think any further on it.

While your "theory" might be solid your conclusions are not. This is the real world and in my quite extensive designing. planning, troubleshooting and implementation, CE devices are much more susceptible to minor voltage spikes than large appliances. GFCI's may help but a good UPS that absorbs the surge in the battery is a very good solution no matter what you may opine.

With basic electrical knowledge, obviously, GFCIs do nothing for surge protection, do not absorb anything, and, well, tell us what a GFCI does? That alone says zero design knowledge is behind those claims.

UPS also does not absorb surges. Popular myths routinely make that claim. If it did absorb surges, well, post those manufacturer spec numbers that claim "absorbing". The typical UPS connects an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. UPS in battery backup mode also outputs power so dirty as to be harmful even to small motors and power strip protectors. You would know that with electrical knowledge, by reading manufacturer's specs, or by using an oscilloscope. You did none. But somehow you know a GFCI absorbs surges?

Now, if that UPS does surge protection, you will post manufacturer numbers that make that claim. You cannot. Those numbers do not exist. You would not have posted if you had first confirmed what is preached in retail stores. One views numeric specifications for that UPS to know the salesman is lying. One who actual does designing would know this common knowledge.

As for a GFCI that "absorbs surges" - I will not even ask for those specs. Tell us: what does a GFCI do? Does that silly little box absorb what three miles of sky could not? In a real world, one would never make that claim.

First, I'm not yet convinced that CE devices are susceptible to minor spikes at all. Numbers that support your suspicions.

Long before PCs existed, 120 volt electronics were required to withstand voltages as high as 600 volts. Even Intel specs have long required computers to withstand thousands of volts without damage. Computers are some of the most robust devices in the house.

A typical UPS can output power (in battery backup mode) that is harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. But every computer - even the original IBM PC - contained internal protection that made 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant. All appliances contain surge protection. Protection that can be overwhelmed by a rare and so destructive surge. If that surge is earthed (harmlessly absorbed) before entering a building, then protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.

Meanwhile, innovators march on. Computer internal protection is now even better. International standard (IEC1000-4-2) require computers withstand 2000 and 15,000 volts without damage. For those who learn by doing this stuff (which means consulting numbers and specs), a datasheet details that number on its first page:
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

Knowledge from experience and datasheets says CE must be some of the most robust in a building. Everything contains internal protection. CE must be even more robust. 1) Claim made based in well proven science. 2) Numbers that demonstrate reality also provided.

Junk science is knowledge from observation, no numbers, and the resulting speculation. Junk science claims CE is easily damaged and that a UPS (or a GFCI) somehow provides effective surge protection. Well, anything is easily damaged if the homeowner lets typically surges go hunting for earth ground inside the building.

Surge protection means surges are earthed; do not enter the building; do not overwhelm protection inside all appliances. Properly earth one 'whole house' protector so that protection inside all appliances (including CE) is not overwhelmed.

Oooh, the electrical engineers come to the rescue :rolleyes:

So, you guys would trust your expensive electronics to the wall plate and the internal power supplies to protect you instead of a UPS during loss of power and restart? Go for it. I am quite happy with my UPS.

Why not just answer the fricken question instead of throwing 1,000 words into a discussion?

Great post. I wonder how many die hard believers will read it carefully and learn something.


I actually read both posts and simply would like to say thank you! I have felt this was the case, but had zero proof, as I have not performed tests as you did. Once again, thank you!

So, you guys would trust your expensive electronics to the wall plate and the internal power supplies to protect you
In a word, yes.
Especially as regards UPS, since the UPS provides no additional protection beyond what a well made surge protector might provide.

. . . instead of a UPS during loss of power and restart?
Go for it.
I am quite happy with my UPS.
If you have made up you mind, that's fine.
Those who are uncertain or prefer the "better-safe-than-sorry" approach may wish to make an informed decision based in information presented.

So, you guys would trust your expensive electronics to the wall plate and the internal power supplies to protect you instead of a UPS during loss of power and restart? Go for it. I am quite happy with my UPS.


You understand unless you have an online UPS that there is going to be a brownout when your UPS switches from external to internal power? You won't notice this, but when I observed PCs rebooting when unplugging the UPS, and noticing the problem going away when I upgraded to a different power supply with bigger caps, I could kind of see how the sucker worked.

I have had one monitor failure do to a bad UPS, though that was one of those cheap-o KDS wonders.

UPSs tend to have only rudimentary surge protection, and once their MOVs fail they tend to not work anymore. A basic $3.50 wall unit will go far to protect a cheap UPS from failure that wouldn't phase modern gear.

In a word, yes.
Especially as regards UPS, since the UPS provides no additional protection beyond what a well made surge protector might provide.


If you have made up you mind, that's fine.
Those who are uncertain or prefer the "better-safe-than-sorry" approach may wish to make an informed decision based in information presented.

:confused::confused: I disagree and have seen proof that the UPS I have does more than that. We are very prone to power drops, dips and power outages in my neighborhood. I have seen the lights go out in the rest of the house but my equipment never even blinked other than the UPS switching. That is certainly FAR MORE protection than just a "well made surge protector" and, again, FAR MORE protection than the wall plate.

I don't understand how the 2 of you, westom and yourself, can sit there and say a UPS does not do anything to protect a system but instead say that the UPS does nothing more than plugging direstly into the wallplate.

Maybe we have different definitions of what protection is?

:confused::confused: I disagree and have seen proof that the UPS I have does more than that.
Not sure what you mean by "proof"; you mean like technical data and such.
What UPS do you have (make/model)?

We are very prone to power drops, dips and power outages in my neighborhood. I have seen the lights go out in the rest of the house but my equipment never even blinked other than the UPS switching. That is certainly FAR MORE protection than just a "well made surge protector" and, again, FAR MORE protection than the wall plate.
Perhaps there's some misunderstanding here regarding the word "protection", but keeping it simple:
"Protection" = preventing voltage spikes and surges from damaging equipment.
You seem to be talking about "drops, dips and power outages", none of which inherently contain or produce spikes and surges.
Also there is no data to indicate that "drops, dips and power outages" are harmful to equipment.
If your UPS is kicking in frequently, then the electrical service in your area may indeed be sub par, in which case you may wish to use an UPS for convenience reasons. But an UPS kicking in during a drop, dip or power outage is not "protecting" anything.

I don't understand how the 2 of you, westom and yourself, can sit there and say a UPS does not do anything to protect a system but instead say that the UPS does nothing more than plugging direstly into the wallplate.
Umm - cuz it's true?? :what:

Maybe we have different definitions of what protection is?
I offered a brief definition above. Again; protection = prevention of equipment damage.
Does yours differ.

Sorry, I do not care to go around in circles with you.

I will continue to feel safe and secure with my UPS and you can sit there and feel protected by connecting your valuable equipment to the directly wallplate.

I have now been through a hurricane and many, many severe thunderstorms and my equipment is fine. To me, that is what I measure my protection by, not by what the IEEE or NEC says. (Yes, this area of the city I live in has SUB PAR service :( )

Until I am proven otherwise, I will continue to recommend surge protectors (WOW, back to the OP) and a UPS when conditions warrant it.

I will continue to feel safe and secure with my UPS and you can sit there and feel protected by connecting your valuable equipment to the directly wallplate.

I have now been through a hurricane and many, many severe thunderstorms and my equipment is fine. To me, that is what I measure my protection by, not by what the IEEE or NEC says.
Happy for ya.

And, likewise, I too have been through many severe thunderstorms, power outages and etc.
And my equipment is also fine.

Of course, these two seemingly contradictory anecdotal bits prove absolutely nothing.

Until I am proven otherwise, I will continue to recommend surge protectors (WOW, back to the OP) and a UPS when conditions warrant it.
Well the evidence has been presented to you, but you have rejected it. That is your prerogative.
What exactly would you accept as "proof"?

I don't understand how the 2 of you, westom and yourself, can sit there and say a UPS does not do anything to protect a system but instead say that the UPS does nothing more than plugging direstly into the wallplate.

Maybe we have different definitions of what protection is?

I read the same things you did, and to be honest I've had to adjust my thinking a little bit, but here is what is NOT adjusted.

Do you have an Online UPS? If not, and I'd wager you don't, do you understand while power is normal the batteries are NOT part of the equation? In fact your base models, including APC, don't offer anything more than a cheap-o surge protector. In fact, you'd be wise to invest in a cheap-o wall mount style surge protector to protect the UPS. Minor spikes that won't phase modern gear will deteriorate the MOVs over time and poof, your $50, $100, $200 unit loses a 17 cent part rending the main feature you bought it for useless, or worse the whole thing doesn't work.

ETA: I just looked at it looks like the sub $5.00 range is only rated for 100~200 joules. Still, they provide "some" indication that there actually was measurable surge.

I have the APC AV Black 1.5kVA H Type Power Conditioner. LINK (http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/products/index.cfm?action=detail&base_sku=H15BLK)

On that note, I am done with this thread. Seeing someone here try and tell the rest of us that I (or anyone else) gets no more protection from a UPS than just plugging their equipment straight into a power receptacle is quite absurd.

I have the APC AV Black 1.5kVA H Type Power Conditioner.
Can't help myself.

OK, the APC has decent surge protections - about as good as a $25 surge protector would provide.

It has a cute "AVR" or automatic voltage control which actually does nothing since:
in narrow range it will regulate a 102-132 input voltage range to 114-126 output volts and :
in wide range it will regulate a 92-145 input voltage range to 102-138 output volts.
Most public service utilities operate at much tighter limits that this unit is capable of providing.
It should be noted that in the "wide range" the regulated output voltage is almost exactly the same as running under "narrow range" input conditions.
But more to the point, APC is selling protection, and they are selling you a unit that is guaranteed to provide an output voltage (that's input voltage to your equipment) of 102-138 volts (when the AVR is set to wide range).
First: in the area where I live the AVR would serve no functional purpose since the voltage at my house is always (I've measured it over years) 116-124V - never higher never lower, since that's tighter than the unit can perform even in low range I would have no use for the function - thus it has no value.
Second: if you think you need AVR because you believe your power company is not as good as mine, then you must operate in high range. But, wait; in high range the unit is only guaranted to regulate the output voltage (again, that's input to your equipment) to 102-138V . . .
by this they are implicitly telling you that your equipment will perform just fine and with no harm or damage over this voltage range.
Well, I believe that they are correct, but I also believe that even with the worst public service utility in the country would never see a high voltage as high as 138V nor low voltage as low as 102V except in a short-lived brownout (at which point, the UPS would kick in anyway), but it has already been established that there is no mechanism by which low voltage conditions can be harmful to CE equipment.
Summary: the AVR feature is cute, but of no value and offers no "protection".

Basically what you are getting is $25 worth of surge protection plus a battery backup for whatever price you might have paid for this (list price) $449.99 product.
So the "protection value" of this product is $25; the balance is paid for bells, whistles, and (possibly) convenience.

If you think it's worth the price and it gives you peace of mind, so be it.

You may have all the opinions you want about the subject but a surge suppressor IS necessary and a UPS is better.

You can quote what you will in regs. etc. but the fact remains they do save valuable CE equipment daily that would have been damaged had they not been in place.

You may have all the opinions you want about the subject but a surge suppressor IS necessary and a UPS is better.

That's rather an opinion, and actually you seem to be confusing what a function of a UPS is. A UPS in it self doesn't do anything more than provide a battery in the event the power goes out. A UPS isn't better, a UPS is a separate entity. A UPS might have additional functions onboard, but it's foolish to spend $50, $100... or more on something when spending less actually provides better protection. Burn out your MOV or pop a thermal fuse in your $250 UPS, and unless you can dig in and replace it you're out $250 for a failure of a 10~33cent part, a part DESIGNED TO FAIL.

Unless it's an online UPS, it generates a small brownout. You can observe this if your PC has a power supply with smaller than adequate caps. If you've got an old school volt meter, you might see a dip.

Whether one is "necessary" is a matter of opinion. As indicated, most modern gear has provisions for this. But whether YOU need one is something you can actually observe. Buy a cheap wall mount one. If that neon light goes out under a year, you really need to invest in some whole house protection.

You can quote what you will in regs. etc. but the fact remains they do save valuable CE equipment daily that would have been damaged had they not been in place.

Daily? That's quite a strong statement, easily debunked with basic observation. It's generally not an issue.

Second: if you think you need AVR because you believe your power company is not as good as mine, then you must operate in high range. But, wait; in high range the unit is only guaranted to regulate the output voltage (again, that's input to your equipment) to 102-138V . . .
by this they are implicitly telling you that your equipment will perform just fine and with no harm or damage over this voltage range.

Keep in mind that we are talking about primary Japanese equipment. Gear that is designed for 120v 50-60hz is common place, though some north American units do employ different power supplies. Also somewhat common are switching power supplies designed for 50-60hz 100v-240v. Not everything, but some manufactures have opted to mass produce a planetary power supply. Some still make special North American units.

So not only would I believe 102~140V as a non issue, in many cases 100~260V is not an issue, lol.

At least we were able to help the OP before the BS started flying... it's funny how the same guy seems to derail every post about surge protection and then seems to think he knows what is best for everyone else :rolleyes:

"... excuse me sir, will you pay me 3 farthings for a lump of shit?"
"..3 FARTHINGS FOR A LUMP OF SHIT???..."..."here, I'll give you 2.. now bugger off"... Yellowbeard (the best movie no one saw)

You may have all the opinions you want about the subject . . .
Thanks.
And I prefer "opinions" based on technical understanding, and review of manufacturer's specifications over those based on unfounded claims.

. . . a surge suppressor IS necessary . . .
Some, any, even one independent source citation to confirm this would be helpful.

. . . and a UPS is better.
Agan, even one independent source citation to suggest any possible reason why a UPS is "better" than . . .

. . . the fact remains they do save valuable CE equipment daily that would have been damaged had they not been in place.
Even one independent source citation to confirm this would add a little credibility to "bad" opinion.

Thanks.
And I prefer "opinions" based on technical understanding, and review of manufacturer's specifications over those based on unfounded claims.


Some, any, even one independent source citation to confirm this would be helpful.


Agan, even one independent source citation to suggest any possible reason why a UPS is "better" than . . .


Even one independent source citation to confirm this would add a little credibility to "bad" opinion.

More useless BS from the BS master :banghead:

Are you really that fricken dense???? You think proof is needed that a surge protector IS helpful and/or necessary? Just because YOU "think" they are of no help. You've shown no proof what-so-ever that surge protectors do not help.

You sir, seem to be only posting contrary posts based on your beliefs.

I don't argue that a UPS is necessary. I have one and KNOW I am protected. I don't give a damn if you think my UPS model is a waste on money.

At least we were able to help the OP before the BS started flying... it's funny how the same guy seems to derail every post about surge protection and then seems to think he knows what is best for everyone else :rolleyes:


Well, I can say when I put a vacuum on the same circuit as my APC basic backup, it kicks out and goes into battery mode. Obviously I'm not in the habit of sharing a vacuum with my gear, but I moved stuff around and didn't mark that outlet. It's either responding to a brownout condition, or noise from the motor. Not sure which since I don't have a scope.

I can also say I've observed some very robust protection with PC motherboards, them kicking out when the supply is slightly out of spec. Problems like this were easily resolved by swapping out the stock case supply, which tend to be from that one lame manufacturer in China.

What might be valid is the switch to switching supplies, but I can't say I've observed this to actually be an issue in over 10 years.

Monster does make an AV UPS, which has provisions to use IR to turn off your HDTV in the event of power failure. Kind of handy for units that have fans, except how often do you keep your TV running when you're not around?

Well, I can say when I put a vacuum on the same circuit as my APC basic backup, it kicks out and goes into battery mode. Obviously I'm not in the habit of sharing a vacuum with my gear, but I moved stuff around and didn't mark that outlet. It's either responding to a brownout condition, or noise from the motor. Not sure which since I don't have a scope.

I can also say I've observed some very robust protection with PC motherboards, them kicking out when the supply is slightly out of spec. Problems like this were easily resolved by swapping out the stock case supply, which tend to be from that one lame manufacturer in China.

What might be valid is the switch to switching supplies, but I can't say I've observed this to actually be an issue in over 10 years.

Monster does make an AV UPS, which has provisions to use IR to turn off your HDTV in the event of power failure. Kind of handy for units that have fans, except how often do you keep your TV running when you're not around?

A vacuum is an inductive device (as are all motors) and they will have a high amperage start up current, which is why you saw the UPS kick in. I see a dimming of my lights when my AC kicks off.

More useless BS from the BS master :banghead:
I'm sorry if you are confused by facts, data and technical specifications. Many people are.

Are you really that fricken dense???? You think proof is needed that a surge protector IS helpful and/or necessary?
Yes, pretty much the same as I would like to see proof when some guy tries to sell me a small brown bottle of "Magic Cure" and tells me that it will cure all cancers.

Just because YOU "think" they are of no help.
I KNOW that a UPS provides no more "protection" to CE equipment than a $30 surge protector might provide.
I know this by simply comparing the specifications of both.

But, you are correct, based on my knowledge of electronics equipment, power sources, industry expericnce in the semiconductor and CATV industries, and a modicum of research on this topic, I do not believe (and I guess it is fair to say "do not "think") that either a surge protector or a UPS is necessary.

As for UPS:
Historical note: UPS first became of interest to consumers with the advent of personal computers and were marketed as protection against data loss in the event of a power loss. The history and development of UPS has always been directed at the issue of an unexpected power disruption that might result in injuries, fatalities, serious business disruption or data loss . . . period.
The UPS alone was never designed or intended to provide any protection to equipment; only to provide uninterupted operation of the equipment. That is not an opinion - that is a FACT.
Some "surge protection" or "supression" can be added to any UPS design for a minimal cost.

It is correct that I have in the past and will continue to express my "opinion" that purchase of a UPS for the purpose of protecting your equipment is a waste of money.
If you want one to protect data, or avoid interruption of recording activities, or to be able to watch the last 15 minutes of a movie if the power goes out, that's fine and a matter of personal convience.

As for surge surpressors:
Good and/or decent units are available for $25-$30.
Specifications associated with surge surpressors are "clamping voltage" and "joule rating". The rule-of-thumb is buy the highest rated product; that's fine, only be aware that since there is no standardized way to measure "joule rating", manufacturer's claims may not be accurate or meaningful.

Again, I do not use them, because I do not believe they are necessary where I live, and I have never experienced any condition other than an occasional power loss during a storm.
I have never advised others not to purchase an inexpensive surge surpression product if it gave them the "warm fuzzies".
I have even pointed out that manufacturer's of these products seem to offer equipment protection warrantees that may (if honored) be worth the cost of the product as a form of insurance against possible loss in the event of a catastrophic surge.

To summarize: A decent "non-protected" power strip costs about $10 while a decent surge protected power strip costs only $15-20 more.
I choose to use the standard power strip.
Others may choose to spend the extra few $$$, and I have never said that they shouldn't.
For the few $$$ difference between the two choices, there nothing whatsoever to argue about.

You've shown no proof what-so-ever that surge protectors do not help.
And you have shown no proof that they do help.

However, I think the link that I posted in #17 above provides rather compelling agruments that suggest if you are concerned about surges and spikes you should first consider whole-house protection, and then point-of-use after that.
Once again, I have never had occasion to argue with those that might address their concerns in this manner.

You sir, seem to be only posting contrary posts based on your beliefs.
That's a great opening for turning this into a discussion of semantics.
What exactly constitues a "belief".
Should a person who "believes" the earth is flat be considered as reliable as a person who believes it to be spheroid?
Yes, I am posting based on my educated and informed beliefs, just like everyone else; and I am not afraid to post facts, citations, specifications and analysis.

I don't argue that a UPS it is necessary.
Perhaps you have not argued that is necessary.
But you have argued, quite strongly, that a UPS offers additional protection for equipment . . . and that is simply not true.
(see your next statement, for example, where you strongly imply that it is the UPS that is providing the protection)

I have one and KNOW I am protected. I don't give a damn if you think my UPS model is a waste on money.
And I KNOW that when I spill the salt, and then throw some of it over my shoulder I will not have bad luck.
I just don't try to sell that idea to other people.

The OP was obviously a newbe.
He thought that he needed surge protection.
He indicated that he was on a restricted budget.
I would expect a BB sales guy to make every effort to sell him a $500 UPS.
I would hope that he would get something better from this forum. His needs could have been met with a $30 item.
Yes, it bothers me that he received no better from this forum than he might have received from BB or Monster.

more useless drivel ... You type much, say nothing

more useless drivel ... You type much, say nothing

Here's the bottom line, said one again.

UPSs tend to have surge protection. This protection tends to be on par with a cheap strips. It's foolish to use a UPS as a surge protector because the whole point of a surge protector is to fail. Whether it's a big surge, or several tiny ones, you blow a $5 to $20 part to protect a $200 to $2000 part. That's the whole point. If you pop a thermal fuse in your $50, $100, $200 unit, unless it's under warranty or you can open it up and replace it, you now own a $50, $100, $200 brick.

Here is what you don't seem to be getting, the parts that actually do the protection are trivial 10cent 33cent components. Unless you can replace them on your $300 unit, you're acting foolishly.

I just love these wanna-be experts ... NOT

A vacuum is an inductive device (as are all motors) and they will have a high amperage start up current, which is why you saw the UPS kick in. I see a dimming of my lights when my AC kicks off.

D00d, there are two possibilities.
1) Brownout condition
2) Noise condition

You're assuming a definitive stance with no real evidence. A real test, in lue of test equipment, would be whether or not a similar device with a high amp start up, let's say a HP LJ II, would result in the same condition, which I can tell you it does not. Not definitive, but at least something.

Now the sad thing is, this is one case where you could actually cite where "some" UPS models, actually perform a design function. But that's actually not really a UPS function, that's line conditioning and power filter. Whether this would phase modern gear with switching power supplies is another matter. But you, or rather I, shouldn't be running a large AC motor on the same circuit.

Whether YOUR unit actually does this is something you don't actually know. Sure it's a line conditioner, but what is it conditioning? Some only handle high frequency noise ignore low frequency.

As a point of interest, my lights rarely dim. I don't have the best electrical network in the world, but the big appliances have their own circuit, the kitchen a 20amp circuit. You "might" consider actually mapping your circuits from your breaker box, and jacking in accordingly.

I just love these wanna-be experts ... NOT

And I just love people who ignore facts.

A UPS typically does not offer any more in the way of surge protection than a dedicated surge protector. In fact, a dedicated surge protector, depending on the model, is often rated much higher than the UPS on board protection. Why? Because it's a freaking battery backup.

I could give a flying f^%k what you like or don't like.

For some reason, you guys have blown this WAY the hell out of proportion and I am sick of your bullshit. I bought a UPS to help with the bad incoming power we have here, the frequent power drops and brown outs.

A UPS DOES add a level of surge protection that is equivelent to surge protector but the one I have goes up to 5,000 Joules... which is a lot better than most surge protectors.

You can argue until the cows come home that a UPS doesn't help, isn't worth the money..etc... but you are wasting your words.

I could give a flying f^%k what you like or don't like.

For some reason, you guys have blown this WAY the hell out of proportion and I am sick of your bullshit. I bought a UPS to help with the bad incoming power we have here, the frequent power drops and brown outs.

If your power is that bad, you need whole house protection. Really. If your power is that bad, you're going to be popping surge protectors every other week.

That being said, these APC AVs look like nice battery backups, and at $80ish it's almost (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4197031&Sku=A75-2071) worth it just for the battery.


A UPS DOES add a level of surge protection


A UPS DOES NOT add ANY level of surge protection. A UPS is just a fucking battery, charger, inverter, and switch. THAT'S IT. Many, if not most, UPSes have surge protectors on board.

In fact, the line conditioning on your unit and the APC AV series is rudimentary.

that is equivelent to surge protector but the one I have goes up to 5,000 Joules... which is a lot better than most surge protectors.

5,000 Joules? Really? Is that total or per device? Sounds like an inflated number to me, mainly because I don't see those sorts of numbers on rack equipment that costs several grand. You dun bought yourself some snake oil son.

There is this magic device that would actually serve you in the event of such a strike. It's called a thermal fuse. It's so magic that the filament vaporizes in the the event of being exposed to that much power, which is good because otherwise your equipment would vaporize, or rather they will get hot and start to ignite things around it.


You can argue until the cows come home that a UPS doesn't help, isn't worth the money..etc... but you are wasting your words.

You have no idea what I'm saying because you are so defensive. I'll say it again. You DO NOT WANT TO DEPEND ON YOUR UPS AS A SURGE PROTECTOR. In the very unlikely event you actually get a destructive surge, what would you rather blow, a $5 unit, a $20 unit, or a $300 unit? Did you say $5 unit? Thank you for playing. If you are blowing $5 units, $20 units, and $300 units you've got a serious problem and you need a fucking electrician. You either NEED whole house protection, or you need someone smarter than you to troubleshoot what in your pad is popping your gear.

If that's not an option, and problems are as serious as you say, you need a real power conditioner, and not this mickey mouse one. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice backup, in fact I'd buy one if I didn't already replace mine, but it's not an online UPS.

ETA: For my gear I do have a rack mount surge protector with a high rating. Someone else spent $2000 on it, I spent $20. I have to replace the MOVs and a touchy breaker that kicks out at 112v.

I give up.. you just don't get it. YOU so believe YOu are right that you ignore what I say. I trust APC's word over yours 110%.

have a nice day, now piss off.

I give up.. you just don't get it. YOU so believe YOu are right that you ignore what I say. I trust APC's word over yours 110%.

have a nice day, now piss off.

You're not actually saying anything, except that you have "faith" in APC. You ignore the reality of the situation, and in fact you have no understanding of the reality of the situation. You are promoting using a UPS AS A SURGE PROTECTOR. This is simply foolishness since Surge Protectors are exactly the sorts of things you want to explode in the very very very very unlikely event of a destructive surge. You want them to explode and not your gear.

Here's the deal, you shouldn't take my word for it. You shouldn't take APCs word for it. That's the fucking problem. You should research it on your own and actually make your own judgment.

If your power is as bad as you say, you have a fucking problem. You either need whole house protection, or you need to get an electrician to actually troubleshoot what the problem is.

You might have "faith" in APC, but the problem is you don't understand what they are offering. The line conditioning is rather rudimentary. It's not converting AC, to DC, and back to perfect AC. It's not actually doing ANYTHING more than a $20~$30 surge protector other than have a battery backup.

If you want a battery backup, here you go. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4197031&Sku=A75-2071&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=X3Th4gZi_iQ-PE2tKbAeKaUYj2DEkfZkyA)$80 for the APC H10 AV 1000VA. Two of these will provide more juice than one $300 unit. Personally, in the unlikely event of a power outage, I power down my PC and hook up a lamp, so I can find the candles. That's sort of what a battery backup is for.

It's nice to know that you know my fucking problem. Wow, finally, someone has shown me the light!:rolleyes:

Dood (as you put it), you know nothing about me, what I do for a living or anything else. You have no idea what I researched, what I didn't. Take your condescending opinions, comments and recommendations and shove them up your ass.

I choose to buy what I buy, have faith in little green men if I want.. so what? You do as you please.

And then I ask myself.. what the hell am I doing even answering you? 'nuff said? :cool:

For more on the subject of UPS's (if anyone is interested) check out this discussion (http://www./archive/index.php/t-104984.html) and this one for varying viewpoints (http://www./avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-277384.html)

For more on the subject of UPS's (if anyone is interested) check out this discussion (http://www./archive/index.php/t-104984.html) and this one for varying viewpoints (http://www./avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-277384.html)

Your links are broke. Just fyi.

Thanks for the feedback.. just can't link to other forums.... Oh well. this thread is so badly derailed anyway

Thanks for the feedback.. just can't link to other forums.... Oh well. this thread is so badly derailed anyway

Yep, pretty much lost relevancy about the end of the first page. Wonder why.....:lol:

Yep, pretty much lost relevancy about the end of the first page. Wonder why.....:lol:

Us reasonable people know why...That's it for me, I'm outta here.

Maybe these electrical professionals should go to work for BOSE...

Us reasonable people know why...That's it for me, I'm outta here.

Maybe these electrical professionals should go to work for BOSE...
:lol: Maybe they do! :yippee:

Yep, pretty much lost relevancy about the end of the first page. Wonder why.....:lol:
Yes, I wonder why as well:

The OP was obviously a newbe.

He thought that he needed surge protection.

He indicated that he was on a restricted budget.

I would expect a BB sales guy to make every effort to sell him a $500 UPS.

I would hope that he would get something better from this forum.

His needs for surge protection could have been met with a $30 item.

Odd that he received no better from this forum than he might have received from BB or Monster.

Us reasonable people know why...That's it for me, I'm outta here.

Maybe these electrical professionals should go to work for BOSE...

No highs, no lows, it must be Bose!! LOL!!! Quote from one of my college electronics teachers.

Yes, I wonder why as well:

The OP was obviously a newbe.

He thought that he needed surge protection.

He indicated that he was on a restricted budget.

I would expect a BB sales guy to make every effort to sell him a $500 UPS.

I would hope that he would get something better from this forum.

His needs for surge protection could have been met with a $30 item.

Odd that he received no better from this forum than he might have received from BB or Monster.

Please note that your misguided/misdirected information is right at the top. :haha:

FYI, the OP seemed very happy with the info we gave him and he dropped out... then.. *cough* the real fun began... :eek:

No highs, no lows, it must be Bose!! LOL!!! Quote from one of my college electronics teachers.

:lol: Perfect description! :D

No highs, no lows, it must be Bose!! LOL!!! Quote from one of my college electronics teachers.

Or Buy Other Sound Equipment

FYI, the OP seemed very happy with the info we gave him and he dropped out... then.. *cough* the real fun began... :eek:
Sorry, I don't see it that way.

No way to know if he is happy or not, since we have not heard from him.

In any event, because his options were not explained to him, he did purchase a Cyber power CPR1500AVRLCD at a cost of $170.
He got a UPS with claimed surge protection of 1,500 Joules.

An option that he was not made aware of, until after the fact, was that he could have purchased similar stand-alone surge protector for $30.

Perhaps the truth is that you misguided individuals all work for BB or Monster.

Sorry, I don't see it that way.

No way to know if he is happy or not, since we have not heard from him.

In any event, because his options were not explained to him, he did purchase a Cyber power CPR1500AVRLCD at a cost of $170.
He got a UPS with claimed surge protection of 1,500 Joules.

An option that he was not made aware of, until after the fact, was that he could have purchased similar stand-alone surge protector for $30.

Perhaps the truth is that you misguided individuals all work for BB or Monster.

Better be careful there...

Better be careful there...

Indeed! Maybe I work for APC instead... :D

To answer Scott's question regarding the OP's satisfaction.. call it experience on my (and other's) part in knowing that the UPS he ordered is going to provide him with what he was asking for.

Sure, he could have bought a cheapo power strip... with a few Joules protection.. but he opted for more and will, in all probabilty, be pleased and feel that his investment is protected.... ah, peace of mind!

To answer Scott's question regarding the OP's satisfaction.. call it experience on my (and other's) part in knowing that the UPS he ordered is going to provide him with what he was asking for.
I know from experience and because I just know that when a witch doctor blesses my house, then robberies never happen. Observation is always enough to *know*.

Post those manufacturer's numeric specs that you read to *know* it provides protection. That was all you need do. Why did you not? Because even the manufacturer does not claim to provide that protection that you *know* exists.


So how did that 1500 joules in a UPS absorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? You said you know. How does that energy just magically disappear without doing damage?

Indeed! Maybe I work for APC instead... :D
Hadn't thought of that, but yes, it is a possibility.

To answer Scott's question regarding the OP's satisfaction.. call it experience on my (and other's) part in knowing that the UPS he ordered is going to provide him with what he was asking for.
Must admit, I too assume that he is "satisfied" . . .
but I also know that he is out $140 for his experience . . .
unless he also wanted a BBU, but he wasn't around long enough to answer that question.

Sure, he could have bought a cheapo power strip... with a few Joules protection.. but he opted for more and will, in all probabilty, be pleased and feel that his investment is protected.... ah, peace of mind!
If $30 means "cheapo", ok; however in terms of surge protection, he didn't get more . . . he got what the manufacturer claims is 1,500 Joules of protection; he could have easily purchased a $30 power strip with the same manufacturer's claim.