other than buying extron's (expensive) rca compression connectors and the tool to terminate this cable... Anyone have any suggestions on a cheaper solution?
I'm using (and have already wired a house project) with extron mhr-5 cable. If I have too then I must, but I would rather use something cheaper if possible.
Would some rg59 rca compression connectors like this listed here (http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-RG59-Compression-Connectors-QTY-50-with-Tool_W0QQitemZ320405321744QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Co nnectors_Switches_Wire?hash=item4a99a53810&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) on ebay work fine?
I saw this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G36nhcObllg) video on youtube and got curious...
Its 26g stranded wire x 5 for the MHR-5 RGBHV cable i've run
What is the application for this wire type? Are you using it for speaker wire? It looks like it is made for BNC connectors and made to run multi conductors from source to end devices.
I can see the trouble it could be to terminate it with 5 mini coax's.
Scottnot
08-02-2009, 09:45 AM
You're probably going to have to get the crimp tool.
The cable is 75 Ohm, and they do sell RG59 adaptor ferrules, so you could use standard RG59 connectors.
If you are using the cable to distribute Component video + audio, you might want to try some high quality RCA connectors which could be carefully soldered to the cable.
gclg2000
08-02-2009, 10:58 AM
You're probably going to have to get the crimp tool.
The cable is 75 Ohm, and they do sell RG59 adaptor ferrules, so you could use standard RG59 connectors.
If you are using the cable to distribute Component video + audio, you might want to try some high quality RCA connectors which could be carefully soldered to the cable.
Yes they are being used for component video plus audio....
Only problem is that there is 70 connections to solder.........:helpme
I'd rather just crimp them on. I've seen this cable work perfectly with crimped RCA connectors display HDTV over long runs.
Know what I mean?
Scottnot
08-02-2009, 11:27 AM
I've seen this cable work perfectly with crimped RCA connectors display HDTV over long runs.
Sorry, I'd forgotten that they do made crimp-on RCA connectors - I'd certainly go ahead and use them.
Ok, did a little googleing and see that there are many crimp-on RCA connectors available but primarily for RG59 and RG6.
I'd use the ones made for RG59, since they have a smaller OD to begin with, then you'll still want to get the adaptor ferrules from extron, and may still need their crimp tool for the ferrule-to-cable crimp, unless you can find a general purpose crimper that is either adjustable or has a very close standard position. Good luck.
gclg2000
08-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Sorry, I'd forgotten that they do made crimp-on RCA connectors - I'd certainly go ahead and use them.
Ok, did a little googleing and see that there are many crimp-on RCA connectors available but primarily for RG59 and RG6.
I'd use the ones made for RG59, since they have a smaller OD to begin with, then you'll still want to get the adaptor ferrules from extron, and may still need their crimp tool for the ferrule-to-cable crimp, unless you can find a general purpose crimper that is either adjustable or has a very close standard position. Good luck.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-RG59-Compression-Connectors-QTY-50-with-Tool_W0QQitemZ320405321744QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Co nnectors_Switches_Wire?hash=item4a99a53810&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Yes, but sorta expensive at a buck apiece (including the tool).
You'd have to order two, so that's $100.
You could pick them up for about 35 cents each at a place like this: http://www.deepsurplus.com/Network-Structured-Wiring/RCA-Coaxial-Connectors-for-RG59/RG59-Crimp-Connector-RCA-Male-with-1-4-Ring and get a tool for ~$20 at monoprice.
It's your call.
gclg2000
08-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Yes, but sorta expensive at a buck apiece (including the tool).
You'd have to order two, so that's $100.
You could pick them up for about 35 cents each at a place like this: http://www.deepsurplus.com/Network-Structured-Wiring/RCA-Coaxial-Connectors-for-RG59/RG59-Crimp-Connector-RCA-Male-with-1-4-Ring and get a tool for ~$20 at monoprice.
It's your call.
What about this compression tool versus crimping?
Would this tool work?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3356&seq=1&format=2
What compression end pieces would you suggest to use from monoprice for this cable?
Scottnot
08-02-2009, 02:46 PM
Would this tool work?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3356&seq=1&format=2
Might work - it is adjustable. The only issue is if it will adjust small enough to crimp the connection between the extron ferrule and the MHR-5 cable. Buy it; if it doesn't work, you can always return it.
What compression end pieces would you suggest to use from monoprice for this cable?
None; they only carry RG6 fittings. Not that they almost certainly would work, but I'm thinking of "best solution".*
You could certainly use these http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10424&cs_id=1042404&p_id=5908&seq=1&format=2 at 40 cents each along with the extron RG6 ferrules.
* In signal transmission theory there is something known as a "discontinuity" that occurs at any interface or transition in the system, such as connectors, cable to board attachments, and even in the case of a kinked cable. Although MHR-5, RG59 and RG6 are all 75 Ohm (impedance) cables, they all have different ODs (outside diameter) and the OD is a first order term in determing impedance of any cable. Likewise, no RCA connector is truely 75 Ohms because of its ratio of inside diameter to outside diameter. So, no matter what approach you take there will be a transition and a discontinuity - this results in a signal reflection which can be best described as attenuation of loss of some of the signal.
In "theory" the discontinuity between RG59 and MHR-5 should be less that that between RG6 and MHR-5. But, quite frankly, I don't think it will matter which you use; the actual difference is probably in the "theoretical noise".
Sorry for making this more difficult that it needs to be.
Use the monoprice stuff.
gclg2000
08-02-2009, 08:22 PM
So is RG59 and the MHR-5 essentially the same cable?
The 5 cables that compose the MHR-5 are all stranded cables. Not solid wire like RG-6 is...right???
kegobeer
08-02-2009, 09:05 PM
MHR-5 is just a cable that has five 75 ohm coaxial conductors in it. They are not stranded - they are coax cables. MHR-5 cables are excellent for in-wall use, due to their small size. The only real downsize is having to terminate the ends after installation.
Have you called Extron? Call their tech support and ask them if there are compatible connectors available. Personally, I would use the recommended tools and connectors, unless I knew for certain that another brand/tool would do the same job with the same results. Don't go cheap on the tools - you'll regret it in the end.
Scottnot
08-02-2009, 09:11 PM
So is RG59 and the MHR-5 essentially the same cable?
The same, in that they are both 75 Ohm cables.
The main difference is attenuation (signal loss) especially at higher frequency (1,000 mHz):
RG6 attenuation is typically 6-8dB/100' at 1 gHz.
RG59 attenuation is typically 8-10dB/100' at 1 gHz.
MHR-5 is speced at 20dB/100' at 1 gHz.
As long as your runs are all under 50' I would not anticipate any problems.
If you do have long runs or experience problems, you may need to add a distribution amp at some point - not a big problem.
The 5 cables that compose the MHR-5 are all stranded cables. Not solid wire like RG-6 is...right???
That's correct, most (but not all) RG59 and RG6 use solid wire for the center conductor;
while MHR-5 does, in fact, use stranded wire for the center conductor.
Again, this is not an issue. Stranded is how they get it so thin without having the attenuation get even worse,
and of course make it more flexible.
ericspencer
08-03-2009, 10:22 AM
RG59 connectors will not work on this cable. This is not a place you want to compromise quality.
Scottnot
08-03-2009, 10:50 AM
RG59 connectors will not work on this cable. This is not a place you want to compromise quality.
Rather arrogant and uninformative post.
Care to explain why, and why Extron sells ferrules for just that purpose?
It might be enlightening.
ericspencer
08-03-2009, 11:11 AM
Rather arrogant and uninformative post.
Care to explain why, and why Extron sells ferrules for just that purpose?
It might be enlightening.
Extron sells replacement ferrules because sometimes a ferrule is damaged or lost .. MHR ferrules work with the MHR connectors, their RG59 ferrules work only with their RG59 connectos etc. You cannot buy MHR ferrules and center pins and use with an RG59 connector
the center conductor insulator OD on this extron cable is considerably smaller than that of RG59 as is the center conductor. Standard RG59 RCA/BNC connectors are made to accommodate a 20awg solid center, extron is a 26ga stranded center, too small and not rigid enough to be properly captured by the contacts with-in the standard rg59 connector. ICM makes a good quality RCA and BNC for mini-hi res cables .. odds are this is where extron buys their compression connectors
Scottnot
08-03-2009, 01:08 PM
ICM makes a good quality RCA and BNC for mini-hi res cables .. odds are this is where extron buys their compression connectors
Now, that's the sort of info that would have been helpful in the first place.
Indeed, RCA to MHR-5 can be obtained directly from Extron as well.
http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=rcamalegoldcomp&subtype=153
http://www.extron.com/product/listbytype.aspx?id=14&subtype=153#14
OP - damn the cost, use the connector designed specifically for the task.
IGExpandingPan
08-04-2009, 06:06 PM
other than buying extron's (expensive) rca compression connectors and the tool to terminate this cable... Anyone have any suggestions on a cheaper solution?
In your other thread where you talked about soldering, I tossed you links for RatShacks keystone connectors. (yellow-278-2075). As keystone solder in jacks go, they are the cheapest I've found @ $1.79. But that involves a whole lot of work, and they don't offer a blue jack.
Anything else I "could" recommend would be a mickey mouse solution. You're looking at about $2/per for the termination plus a wall coupler. Perhaps extra if you have to buy color coded rings.
Presuming $2.10 plus .72c per each coupler (monoprice $3.60), we're looking at $197.40. Plus the gang box, at least 7 for the rooms @ $1.66 (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100160916) per if you go home depot gang bracket. And the distrubtion side, I'm not sure what you want to do, 4 gang boxes with a decora 4x plate?
gclg2000
08-05-2009, 01:04 PM
In your other thread where you talked about soldering, I tossed you links for RatShacks keystone connectors. (yellow-278-2075). As keystone solder in jacks go, they are the cheapest I've found @ $1.79. But that involves a whole lot of work, and they don't offer a blue jack.
Anything else I "could" recommend would be a mickey mouse solution. You're looking at about $2/per for the termination plus a wall coupler. Perhaps extra if you have to buy color coded rings.
Presuming $2.10 plus .72c per each coupler (monoprice $3.60), we're looking at $197.40. Plus the gang box, at least 7 for the rooms @ $1.66 (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100160916) per if you go home depot gang bracket. And the distrubtion side, I'm not sure what you want to do, 4 gang boxes with a decora 4x plate?
Well, there are framed in (dry wall, granite countertop cabinets) entertainment centers in the living room and master bedroom. So I'm just running the wire straight out of the gang boxes inside the entertainment cabinets because they will be covered up. I will probably just use these
For the TV's that will be in the house immediately....living room, mster bed, mster bath. Be a better signal and cheaper just run the wires straight into the TV's.
For the Kitchen, Patio, Office and guest bedrooms I plan on using 6 port keystone jacks with a single RJ45 connector for the IR remote extenders. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that I could run the wires from the IR receiver into a RJ45 end piece and crimp it down like network cable. I'll just wire then keystone receptacle to be the same order when it feeds the cat5e cable into the connecting block.
For sure the kitchen because it will be easier IMO to clean things up with wires that can be unplugged quickly to wipe the counter tops down.
Basically these parts for all the other rooms that won't have a TV in them immediately....
Well, there are framed in (dry wall, granite countertop cabinets) entertainment centers in the living room and master bedroom. So I'm just running the wire straight out of the gang boxes inside the entertainment cabinets because they will be covered up. I will probably just use these
Your choice is up to you, but I'm thinking that it would be cheaper and more functional to go with the monoprice 5 RCA wall plate with couplers onboard, and fish up the Cat5e cable for your IR sensor.
The price difference is minor, $4.68 plus RJ-45 ($1.27) vs $3.60.
For the IR sensor, IIRC the ones your using are nice brass wall mount ones. You can
1) Wall mount your IR Sensor
2) Mount it in a standard F-type plate
3) Mount it in a keystone f-type socket (17 cents) and keystone plate (34 cents)
4) Mount it in a old work box, and use (2) or (3).
If you decide to go with the 6 port keystone with detachible sensor, you might consider a blank insert and mono 1/8th jacks. Ratshack ones (274-251 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103453)) are $4 / 3 pack ($1.34/per) so a little more than monoprice rj-45s, but 1/8 mono is the standard for IR sensors and you don't have to mickey mouse with a network cable outside the box. The holes on these jacks are too small for anything more than 3 28gauge wires, so you'll have to twist the 4th on outside the hole and let the solder roll downhill. I've done this my self for a 25ft + 6ft + 3ft run.
But (1) has the benefit of being the least obtrusive, lower cost, and decent fuctionality.
gclg2000
08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
Your choice is up to you, but I'm thinking that it would be cheaper and more functional to go with the monoprice 5 RCA wall plate with couplers onboard, and fish up the Cat5e cable for your IR sensor.
The price difference is minor, $4.68 plus RJ-45 ($1.27) vs $3.60.
For the IR sensor, IIRC the ones your using are nice brass wall mount ones. You can
1) Wall mount your IR Sensor
2) Mount it in a standard F-type plate
3) Mount it in a keystone f-type socket (17 cents) and keystone plate (34 cents)
4) Mount it in a old work box, and use (2) or (3).
If you decide to go with the 6 port keystone with detachible sensor, you might consider a blank insert and mono 1/8th jacks. Ratshack ones (274-251 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103453)) are $4 / 3 pack ($1.34/per) so a little more than monoprice rj-45s, but 1/8 mono is the standard for IR sensors and you don't have to mickey mouse with a network cable outside the box. The holes on these jacks are too small for anything more than 3 28gauge wires, so you'll have to twist the 4th on outside the hole and let the solder roll downhill. I've done this my self for a 25ft + 6ft + 3ft run.
But (1) has the benefit of being the least obtrusive, lower cost, and decent fuctionality.
The only problem is that my IR sensors (surface mount ALR's) are here new in box but are the bare 4 wire version
IGExpandingPan
08-06-2009, 06:38 PM
The only problem is that my IR sensors (surface mount ALR's) are here new in box but are the bare 4 wire version
Really, I thought you were using the panel mount, which now I look more closely uses a TRRS connector.
Why the hell does the surface mount use bare wires to a wiring block and the panel mount use a TRRS?
Okay, looks like your only choices are
1) TRRS plug and Jack (about $5 x 2 each, less for surplus).
2) RJ-45
3) wiring block, no connector, perhaps a gasket on the hole.
I "would" say a pair of TR (mono 1/8th inch) jacks, but looking at the wiring it's IR out, Status, GND, +12v. Using RJ-45 might be mickey mouse, and I'd encourage you to see the pinout for POE (802.3af). Pins 4/5/7/8 (blue and brown IIRC) are not used for 100baseT, but that looks like a good bet.
The only thing you might want to consider is labeling it not Ethernet.
gclg2000
08-06-2009, 11:37 PM
Really, I thought you were using the panel mount, which now I look more closely uses a TRRS connector.
Why the hell does the surface mount use bare wires to a wiring block and the panel mount use a TRRS?
Okay, looks like your only choices are
1) TRRS plug and Jack (about $5 x 2 each, less for surplus).
2) RJ-45
3) wiring block, no connector, perhaps a gasket on the hole.
I "would" say a pair of TR (mono 1/8th inch) jacks, but looking at the wiring it's IR out, Status, GND, +12v. Using RJ-45 might be mickey mouse, and I'd encourage you to see the pinout for POE (802.3af). Pins 4/5/7/8 (blue and brown IIRC) are not used for 100baseT, but that looks like a good bet.
The only thing you might want to consider is labeling it not Ethernet.
Ok cool. Ya labeling it "non-ethernet" is what I would do. The networking for the house is all being run back to a seperate location from the media cabinet as well. Its not that complicated though... I think there are only 8 total network drops in the house dedicated for computer use.
IGExpandingPan
08-07-2009, 09:14 AM
Ok cool. Ya labeling it "non-ethernet" is what I would do. The networking for the house is all being run back to a seperate location from the media cabinet as well. Its not that complicated though... I think there are only 8 total network drops in the house dedicated for computer use.
Ratshack 6 port plate (278-2009 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102880)). It's $2.70, so like $2.20 more than a Monoprice one, but it has a slot for paper which can serve to easily identify your non-network RJ-45 jack running 12v.
NZMaverick
08-21-2009, 10:19 PM
Hey, not sure if ur still looking for the tool, but...
I have a bunch of connectors on eBay right now as I am changing the connector I use. I cant post the link cos I'm new here.
Just search eBay for Extron BNC or RCA compression and it should come up.
If you use the buy now, I'll thro in the $200 tool for you to use - but you have to send it back within 4-6 weeks! I could be persuaded to sell it to you for a bargain also!
How's that for a deal?!
I also have any of the connector cables you may need.
