Which HD DVD player is the best???

Hey guys first off I have been reading some of the older blogs and the Blue ray bashing is great. I just ordered a 360 add on from Frys. I could not pass their recent deal up. So I was wondering if we listed the top 10 players which ones would be on it. Anyone got any ideas? I just might replace my A2 since its possessed.

oh and if anyone is looking for cheap HD DVD and Blue rays try half.com you can find some good deals.

Hey guys first off I have been reading some of the older blogs and the Blue ray bashing is great. I just ordered a 360 add on from Frys. I could not pass their recent deal up. So I was wondering if we listed the top 10 players which ones would be on it. Anyone got any ideas? I just might replace my A2 since its possessed.

oh and if anyone is looking for cheap HD DVD and Blue rays try half.com you can find some good deals.

The XA2 is easily the best HD DVD player made and it has one of the best SD DVD upconverters on the market. Right behind it is the A35 followed by the A20. You won't find an A35 or XA2 for cheap at this point and the cheapest I have seen them for is around $300-400 on eBay. I was able to get my A20 on eBay for $70 after shipping though. If you want a 1080p HD DVD player then I would go for an XA2 or A35, but if you don't want to spend that much then the A20 will fit the bill. Also, the A20 does support 24 fps.

I certainly agree the HD-XA2 or Onkyo and Integra clones are the best HD DVD players. I prefer the HD-XA2 to the Onkyo DV-HD805 only because it comes with a better remote control, otherwise except for cosmetic differences and case weight, there is no difference. I haven't ever seen the Integra clone so I don't know if it is exactly the same as the Onkyo DV-HD805 but I suspect it is.

Chris

Where would you say that stands ratings wise?

Where would you say that stands ratings wise?

The HD A2 is an excellent upscaler as well.

I certainly agree the HD-XA2 or Onkyo and Integra clones are the best HD DVD players. I prefer the HD-XA2 to the Onkyo DV-HD805 only because it comes with a better remote control, otherwise except for cosmetic differences and case weight, there is no difference. I haven't ever seen the Integra clone so I don't know if it is exactly the same as the Onkyo DV-HD805 but I suspect it is.

Chris

The Integra is exactly the same as the Onkyo, just the nameplate is different (and a few other minor things not worth mentioning). I opened the XA2, Onkyo and Integra and they are the same inside. The main difference is that the XA2 cover and sideplates weigh 5.7 pounds vs. 1.75 pounds for the clones. As for components, the clones have a more recent build date (my XA2s say Jan '07 and both the Onkyo and Integra Oct '07), so there could be some newer (and maybe improved, such as the Reon chip) components in the clones.

Where would you say that stands ratings wise?

I rank the HD DVD players as follows from best to worst (top to bottom):

HD-XA2/XA1
HD-A35
HD-A20
HD-A2/A1
HD-30
HD-A3/D3

The A30/A3/D3 are of much lesser build quality compared to the first and second generation players. The best SD DVD upconverters can be found in the XA1, XA2, and A35, followed closely by the A20 and A2.

The Integra is exactly the same as the Onkyo, just the nameplate is different (and a few other minor things not worth mentioning). I opened the XA2, Onkyo and Integra and they are the same inside. The main difference is that the XA2 cover and sideplates weigh 5.7 pounds vs. 1.75 pounds for the clones. As for components, the clones have a more recent build date (my XA2s say Jan '07 and both the Onkyo and Integra Oct '07), so there could be some newer (and maybe improved, such as the Reon chip) components in the clones.

It is my understanding the chips are all the same, not newer versions and likely not even manufactured later although it might be that the manufacturing process was improved for later models. I don't know if all HD-XA2's were manufactured before the Onkyo/Integra clones or not but I doubt it. Toshiba adding all of the weight with the heavy case was an odd choice, it added transportation cost but provides an illusion of better build quality.

Chris

It is my understanding the chips are all the same, not newer versions and likely not even manufactured later although it might be that the manufacturing process was improved for later models. I don't know if all HD-XA2's were manufactured before the Onkyo/Integra clones or not but I doubt it. Toshiba adding all of the weight with the heavy case was an odd choice, it added transportation cost but provides an illusion of better build quality.

Chris

I thought the main purpose of the heavy case (other than the obvious benefits of protection and stability) is to reduce vibration. The housing is a component of the build quality. Are you saying a heavy case serves no useful purpose?

I thought the main purpose of the heavy case (other than the obvious benefits of protection and stability) is to reduce vibration. The housing is a component of the build quality. Are you saying a heavy case serves no useful purpose?

No, I am saying the DV-HD805 case is heavy enough for that purpose and believe the HD-XA2 is so heavy for appearance purposes only and giving the feel of better build quality. Obviously, manufacturers could put 4" of solid steel case around each player but that wouldn't help performance at all but it would weigh a couple hundred pounds. I think any benefit to be gained by a sturdy case reducing vibration has been accomplished by the metal case for the DV-HD805 which I believe is heavier than the HD-A20 and quiet a bit heavier than the HD-A30, all of which I own. You might compare all of them to the XD-E500 for an example of lightweight and even that player performs well despite its light weight.

I just checked weights of a few of my best players from online specs, the Oppo DV-983H, weighs about 6lbs, the Onkyo DV-HD805 weighs about 9lbs and the HD-XA2 weighs 13lbs. I don't believe the 4lbs extra means anything at all for player performance and of course is achieved by the heavier case. I believe all three of those players have no performance issues that can be improved on with a heavier case.

Some of these inexpensive players that weigh in at around 3lbs might very well do better with a heavier case. I can't say what weight is best and it probably depends on other factors inherrent with each product.

Chris

No, I am saying the DV-HD805 case is heavy enough for that purpose and believe the HD-XA2 is so heavy for appearance purposes only and giving the feel of better build quality. Obviously, manufacturers could put 4" of solid steel case around each player but that wouldn't help performance at all but it would weigh a couple hundred pounds. I think any benefit to be gained by a sturdy case reducing vibration has been accomplished by the metal case for the DV-HD805 which I believe is heavier than the HD-A20 and quiet a bit heavier than the HD-A30, all of which I own. You might compare all of them to the XD-E500 for an example of lightweight and even that player performs well despite its light weight.

I just checked weights of a few of my best players from online specs, the Oppo DV-983H, weighs about 6lbs, the Onkyo DV-HD805 weighs about 9lbs and the HD-XA2 weighs 13lbs. I don't believe the 4lbs extra means anything at all for player performance and of course is achieved by the heavier case. I believe all three of those players have no performance issues that can be improved on with a heavier case.

Some of these inexpensive players that weigh in at around 3lbs might very well do better with a heavier case. I can't say what weight is best and it probably depends on other factors inherrent with each product.

Chris

I guess neither of us know much about if a solid chassis improves performance, but here's a post (http://www.highdefforum.com/151905-post1.html)from a member here written a few years back regarding the XA1, that seems to know what he talking about regarding vibration. Personally, I think the heavy brushed metal cover and side plates and thick front door satisfy my 'illusions' quite nicely. :cool:

I guess neither of us know much about if a solid chassis improves performance, but here's a post (http://www.highdefforum.com/151905-post1.html)from a member here written a few years back regarding the XA1, that seems to know what he talking about regarding vibration. Personally, I think the heavy brushed metal cover and side plates and thick front door satisfy my 'illusions' quite nicely. :cool:

I just tried to find objective evidence that an extremely heavy case would provide a measurable difference in sound or video quality and could find nothing at all. If it is real that the 4 extra pounds from the same player weighing 9 pounds compared to the same player with a 4 lb heavier case weighing 13 lbs could make a difference, I would think somebody would have proven it. My conclusion remains, vibration caused by the tiny motors in these players or subwoofers in the home theater or other vibration enducing factors will end at some point and I think it is south of the 9 lb weight figure. If you are living next to a railroad track and vibration from that source could cause problems, maybe there is some possible way it could make a difference but I sure doubt it.

That post provided nothing that makes me conclude the extremely heavy case of the HD-XA1 or HD-XA2 make it better than the same player with a 4 lb lighter case. I am extremely skeptical of the ultra light players that feel like they would fly off the shelf if I sneezed but the DV-HD805 isn't in that group and it performs identically to the HD-XA2 in my opinion.

I do agree other than my need to have a player that feels solid and is adequate in weight, I know nothing about the effect of chassis weight on player performance.

Chris

So where do you rank the 360 AO? I know it does not have the sound quality due to the 360 only being 5.1 DD but its pretty good. Just curious.

I would put the AO at the bottom of the list because of the sound quality, but I hear the PQ is on par with the A2/A3. Others that own both can better tell this though.

I just tried to find objective evidence that an extremely heavy case would provide a measurable difference in sound or video quality and could find nothing at all. If it is real that the 4 extra pounds from the same player weighing 9 pounds compared to the same player with a 4 lb heavier case weighing 13 lbs could make a difference, I would think somebody would have proven it. My conclusion remains, vibration caused by the tiny motors in these players or subwoofers in the home theater or other vibration enducing factors will end at some point and I think it is south of the 9 lb weight figure. If you are living next to a railroad track and vibration from that source could cause problems, maybe there is some possible way it could make a difference but I sure doubt it.

That post provided nothing that makes me conclude the extremely heavy case of the HD-XA1 or HD-XA2 make it better than the same player with a 4 lb lighter case. I am extremely skeptical of the ultra light players that feel like they would fly off the shelf if I sneezed but the DV-HD805 isn't in that group and it performs identically to the HD-XA2 in my opinion.

I do agree other than my need to have a player that feels solid and is adequate in weight, I know nothing about the effect of chassis weight on player performance.

Chris

Well that HDMI Fantastic guy does seem to know what he's talking about at least as regards to high end CD players, and the importance of minimizing vibration. I really don't believe the XA2 offers greater PQ because of the heavy case, but there does seem to be a lower number of defective units (apart from the shutdown bug), especially compared to the A20 and A2, which have the lighter case. At least I haven't noticed any non-functional XA2s being sold on ebay. At the very least the player looks nicer and feels more solid and offers another layer of protection. I have no problem stacking other players on top of it, it's alway on the bottom of the players I have on my table (I'm still working on my rack, maybe someday I'll have the ambition to finish it).

Well that HDMI Fantastic guy does seem to know what he's talking about at least as regards to high end CD players, and the importance of minimizing vibration. I really don't believe the XA2 offers greater PQ because of the heavy case, but there does seem to be a lower number of defective units (apart from the shutdown bug), especially compared to the A20 and A2, which have the lighter case. At least I haven't noticed any non-functional XA2s being sold on ebay. At the very least the player looks nicer and feels more solid and offers another layer of protection. I have no problem stacking other players on top of it, it's alway on the bottom of the players I have on my table (I'm still working on my rack, maybe someday I'll have the ambition to finish it).

I hadn't thought about a heavier case making it better able to have components stacked on top of it and that would be true. Of course, it also means it can't be stacked on top of another player. I don't know the reason the DV-HD805 had so many DOA out of the box but I suspect a problem with manufacturing during the brief period those players were manufactured and doubt it has anything to do with the lighter case compared to the HD-XA2. For whatever reason, the HD-XA2 did have a lower percentage DOA based on what I have read.

I have an open Bell'o audio video rack which has space for 6 components without stacking and I have two other pieces with space for 2 each without stacking. I only have a couple of components I am comfortable stacking things on top of and the HD-XA2 would be one of those. I have 3 pieces that must be in the open and well ventilated with nothing stacked on top.

Chris

I hadn't thought about a heavier case making it better able to have components stacked on top of it and that would be true. Of course, it also means it can't be stacked on top of another player. I don't know the reason the DV-HD805 had so many DOA out of the box but I suspect a problem with manufacturing during the brief period those players were manufactured and doubt it has anything to do with the lighter case compared to the HD-XA2. For whatever reason, the HD-XA2 did have a lower percentage DOA based on what I have read.

I have an open Bell'o audio video rack which has space for 6 components without stacking and I have two other pieces with space for 2 each without stacking. I only have a couple of components I am comfortable stacking things on top of and the HD-XA2 would be one of those. I have 3 pieces that must be in the open and well ventilated with nothing stacked on top.

Chris

I've got the 16.5 lb A1 stacked on top of the Samsung BD-P1200, and it hasn't buckled yet. ;)

The A2 and A20 have a lot of surface area on top and seems to be very flexible, so it wouldn't surprise me if some of the failures are being caused by less than adequate housing (at least, there would have been fewer damaged units if they had the XA2 case). The Onkyo is basically just an XA2 with an A2 cover (in fact, the covers and housing are identical). The only difference is the Onkyo has some padding where the cover slides under the faceplate.

Here's a pic of the Onkyo
http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc429/th_54973_HD_DVD_007_122_429lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=54973_HD_DVD_007_122_429lo.jpg)

and the A20
http://img198.imagevenue.com/loc993/th_55077_HD_DVD_011_122_993lo.jpg (http://img198.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=55077_HD_DVD_011_122_993lo.jpg)

The padding near the faceplate really seems to reduce flexibility around the joint, especially right above the drive.

Thanks for the pics Bruce. So Onkyo does appear to use the A20 chassis. Do you happen to have a pic of the XA2 also for comparison?

Thanks!

Thanks for the pics Bruce. So Onkyo does appear to use the A20 chassis. Do you happen to have a pic of the XA2 also for comparison?

Thanks!

Sure, here's the XA2
http://img229.imagevenue.com/loc3/th_60298_HD_DVD_009_122_3lo.jpg (http://img229.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=60298_HD_DVD_009_122_3lo.jpg)


Integra (same as Onkyo)
http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc583/th_59850_HD_DVD_006_122_583lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=59850_HD_DVD_006_122_583lo.jpg)

There's no difference I can see on the inside, between the XA2 and the Onkyo.

To add to the above about the flimsy case, I bought 3 A20s cheap on ebay, and one turned out to be defective. The seller (Dealtree) refunded my money and said keep the player (because it wasn't worth returning), but the drive is bad (only plays DVD) and there is no sound. On this player and on one of the others, there are a few dents on the cover. I think some of the issues we're seeing with the defective A2 and A20 units are related to an inadequate top protection. First the player has too much surface area for the thickness of the cover, and second there is no enough support underneath the cover where it slips under the faceplate. The Onkyo does have padding there, which helps, but it seems there are more problems with the A2 and A20 than any other HD DVD player. Of course, it could be just that there were more A2 and A20 units made and that they are older than the A3 and A30/A35. Also perhaps most of the non-functional units sold on ebay are abused demo units, so it's hard to say really if the cover was adequate for the player or not.

I have had no issues with the covers on my A2x players at all. On my A2 it just won't play HD DVD discs but still plays SD DVDs. Not sure if it is the drive or the memory with the A2.

I got a A20 from Dealtime and mine was also defective just like my A2 and they paid return shipping and refunded my player cost. I stopped bidding on their players because of this. I got a A20 from an individual seller on eBay that works fine.

I have had no issues with the covers on my A2x players at all. On my A2 it just won't play HD DVD discs but still plays SD DVDs. Not sure if it is the drive or the memory with the A2.

I got a A20 from Dealtime and mine was also defective just like my A2 and they paid return shipping and refunded my player cost. I stopped bidding on their players because of this. I got a A20 from an individual seller on eBay that works fine.

It's the drive. I swapped out a drive from a player with the same issue to make sure and the new drive worked in it.

I'm not saying the covers are causing any problems, it's just that perhaps we see more problems due to abuse and bad shipping more than anything. Of course, once you get a working unit and take care of it, then the cover will have no effect on how long it lasts. The issue is getting a good player to begin with from ebay or elsewhere, and I haven't noticed any defective XA2s sold on ebay AFAIK, so maybe the heavy cover helps make sure the players survive some of the abuse that may cause the other players to fail. I'm just speculating though.

When I sent my A1 in for repairs with the shutdown bug on HD DVDs they said it was the memory module, but then it died again with the same symptoms, and I have not gotten it repaired. I do have a MACK extended warranty and will eventually ask for coverage and hopefully a refund. I paid $450.00 for it back then, so getting a check would be much preferred to me.

When I sent my A1 in for repairs with the shutdown bug on HD DVDs they said it was the memory module, but then it died again with the same symptoms, and I have not gotten it repaired. I do have a MACK extended warranty and will eventually ask for coverage and hopefully a refund. I paid $450.00 for it back then, so getting a check would be much preferred to me.

I didn't know the A1 has a shutdown bug as well. I was just aware of it on the XA2. My XA2 (the first one I bought 2 years ago for $800) has the shutdown bug, but I just leave the player at 1080i, since my Panny plasma is 1080p/60 so I'll get 1080p in any event. When I do get a 1080p/24hz TV, then I'll either need to use another player, or set the player at 1080p/24 and make sure I turn the TV input on first.

Hopefully you'll get a refund on the A1, that's a much better option at this point, given what you can buy them for on ebay. :lol:

In my opnion,the japanese guys really do a good job in this fields.
Mitishubish,Pioneer,Sony,Sanyo and so on.:hithere: