Federal bailout

WE WOULD PROBABLY BE IN BETTER HANDS IF:...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1X6RQLZtoA

That's pretty funny. I missed that speech from our President and I can see I didn't miss much. If the chances are so good that there will be a return of investment to the American taxpayers, let's see if somebody other than the American taxpayer is willing to spend the $700 Billion. My $2,000 could be better spent on more Blu-ray discs.

Chris

When was the last time the Government did anything to reap a profit for the average American taxpayer?........Hmmmmmm, I dont have a clue

When was the last time the Government did anything to reap a profit for the average American taxpayer?........Hmmmmmm, I dont have a clue

The last time your avatar went to the dentist. :hithere:

Shazam!....

What a mess! Going to take more than 8 years to get out of this one! I think tax free $10,000 for married couples and $5,000 for each kid you got should be given to each legal americans every quarter during the year instead of giving it to wall street!

Tax free
$6,000 for single guys and gals.
$8,000 for single mothers
Free health care run by the US government for all legal americans.
$5,000 aid for home heating oil customers during the winter months

Government control of fuel prices caps.. $1.99 a gallon for unleaded
$5,000 tax credit if you buy car or SUV that saves you at lease 30mpg.

I think if the gov't doesn't do something, that we WILL likely have a domino effect just like in 1929, and banks will fail one by one with people making runs on the banks when they hear a local bank fails.

Real scary stuff for the economy and I am not sure what the solution is at this point. Hindsight is always 20/20, but we are beyond that at this point. The solution is not letting it happen again.

I think if the gov't doesn't do something, that we WILL likely have a domino effect just like in 1929, and banks will fail one by one with people making runs on the banks when they hear a local bank fails.

Real scary stuff for the economy and I am not sure what the solution is at this point. Hindsight is always 20/20, but we are beyond that at this point. The solution is not letting it happen again.

The country survived 29 it will survive this without our own government going socialist on us and bailing out the people who deserve to go to jail. If this is passed it will be the biggest robbery in history.

The country survived 29 it will survive this without our own government going socialist on us and bailing out the people who deserve to go to jail. If this is passed it will be the biggest robbery in history.

+1 :yippee:

The country survived 29 it will survive this without our own government going socialist on us and bailing out the people who deserve to go to jail. If this is passed it will be the biggest robbery in history.

Agreed. This bailout is the biggest theft/transfer of wealth ever.

Let's point out that the money is being transferred to the wealthiest people in the Country that have already made billions fleecing the taxpayers and the government. Jail time seems like the next step here.

The country survived 29 it will survive this without our own government going socialist on us and bailing out the people who deserve to go to jail. If this is passed it will be the biggest robbery in history.

-1
WTF !

So it's OK with you if we have another 1929 ?
:rolleyes:

Is it only me or does anyone else feel that the seated current leaders and management of all these crumbling giant banking and Stock corporations should be required to surrender their Giant balloon payments and ridiculous salaries, and be held responsible for these short comings. And shareholders should be protected to their original investments and not realize any profit or payment related to this BAILOUT. I feel we all better be ready to get the royal shaft and now is the time to let all these Bullshit politicians that we DEMAND they do the job for which we elected them. I believe that if I were the money manager for a company that was driven into the ground and created heartache and headaches,I certainly would not be rewarded with a "BALLOON Payment"(a gift for fukin' up).Only in America where the rich get richer and the mid class guy get the shaft could this happen. I think it's time we all use our combined strength to let all these politicians know how we feel. Contact your local political leaders by phone, by e-mail, by written letters and express your displeasure and disappointment in the way they are representing us, and demand they do their job rather than just signing away the future of our children and probably their children, before it's to late.

This has been a long time coming. We knew this was coming months ago and no one did shit about it. The government waited until it turned into a major crisis before deciding to do something about it when they should've stepped in sooner.

I think in certain circumstances white collar crimes like this should be punishable by execution.

Sad thing about this, no administration will sit by and let crooks pay for their crime. If they did that, the economy would be a worse mess than it is now. No administration wants that on their hands. The best looking resolution, as they preceive it, is to bail out the troubled areas and continue business as usual. This practice has been going on for years by several different administrations and it seems each time it gets worse. Unfortunately, I beleive we need to go after these corporate leaders, prosecute them, and let economy take it's course. Yes, it will be rough for awhile, but this needs to happen to deter future corporations taking advantage of "goverment bailout charities". :rolleyes:

-1
WTF !

So it's OK with you if we have another 1929 ?
:rolleyes:

I didn't say that, I said the country survived it then and will do so again. this time they are useing scare tactics to steal from the taxpayer again.The government has no clue what they are doing and if they did we wouldn't be in this position. Also nobody knows for sure if throwing good money after bad will solve the problem.:2cents

I didn't say that, I said the country survived it then and will do so again. this time they are useing scare tactics to steal from the taxpayer again.The government has no clue what they are doing and if they did we wouldn't be in this position. Also nobody knows for sure if throwing good money after bad will solve the problem.:2cents

It's to bad you're not in charge.

Don't any politicians remember that President Hoover bailed out the banks in 1931? And guess what? They failed the next year anyway. Then FDR bought up mortgages and gave homeowners 30 year/ 3% interest mortgages. THAT worked.

Its funny how we ignore history and repeat our mistakes. Now the new President Hoover (Bush) is doing exactly what didn't work 77 years ago.

Hoover and Bush are also members of the same party.
Restrictions that were put in place by FDR after the depression were removed in 1999. That prompted Sen. Byron Dorgan to comment "the American taxpayer will be bailing out these financial institutions in 10 years." Missed it by a year.

Hoover and Bush are also members of the same party.
Restrictions that were put in place by FDR after the depression were removed in 1999. That prompted Sen. Byron Dorgan to comment "the American taxpayer will be bailing out these financial institutions in 10 years." Missed it by a year.

Thanks to John McCain's chief financial advisor.

Whats up with the new programs with home loans? I hear from my broker that there are some new programs out there?..I know Nada about what to do.

Phil "Americans are whiners" Gramm? THAT financial advisor?

Thanks to John McCain's chief financial advisor.

Well they approved the bailout and the Dow dropped 800 points in one day! Well that did a lot of good, didn't it?

Give us all the money and forget the system. 100,000 to each US paying tax payer. Well okay maybe married couples would get that if you still pay on your home and earn less than $250,000 a year.

Phil "Americans are whiners" Gramm? THAT financial advisor?

Yeah! Hey look, the Dow is below 10,000! Must be another "Mental Recession!"

Well they approved the bailout and the Dow dropped 800 points in one day! Well that did a lot of good, didn't it?


I guess it would have dropped 2,000 points without it so it was a great bailout plan!:confused:

The lawmakers all seemed to have agreed, the American taxpayer didn't want this idiotic bailout, the cost is too great and the benefit too small, but like usual, the idiots pay no attention to us.

Chris

I guess it would have dropped 2,000 points without it so it was a great bailout plan!:confused:

The lawmakers all seemed to have agreed, the American taxpayer didn't want this idiotic bailout, the cost is too great and the benefit too small, but like usual, the idiots pay no attention to us.

Chris

Thats what happens when special interests run our government. I mean come on, the CEO of Goldmann Sach's is our Treasury Secretary for god's sake!!!

This "bailout" is just hilarious when you look at the process. You'd think they'd take the time to investigate the possible outcomes before rushing through a 700 billion dollar plan... But nope. Even now, nobody who signed onto it will tell you whether or not this will even work. The answer to that question: "we don't know." You don't know??? Honestly, who does that? Spend seven hundred billion dollars if you DON'T KNOW if it will work?

Too many folks went out on a limb with these risky loans and the limb broke....We need to go back to a system with less credit... if ya want it, pay me for it today!

I can't remember the name of the ex treasury official who said the bail out just takes the bad loans off the books of the banking institutions, and puts them on the books of the tax payers. It doesn't fix anything.

And to those AIG execs who recently spent around $500,000 on a getaway party to quote "we're just rewarding them for a job well done". It must be great to do well when your company is doing well, and still do well, when your company is failing. In their arrogance, they said they have another getaway planned for December.

Its the new "Buy High, Sell Low" strategy, courtesy of America's new financial planner, Hank Paulson!

Its the new "Buy High, Sell Low" strategy, courtesy of America's new financial planner, Hank Paulson!
Buy High ? Sell Low ? it don't make a difference, if you lose the government will bail you out if your a big time Stock investor. It's a can't lose situation.

Thats what the taxpayers are going to be doing; buying up bad assets at an inflated value, then selling them off cheap.

Selling them to who? If banks go under and Euro is in the same boat.. Worthless bonds, stock, 401K etc.. Welcome to the United Chineese Empire Former the United States of America. This is what's going to happen if China will own USA if we keep on getting loans from them. How did we get into that mess in the first place?

That is a rhetorical question right?
Trade barriers and tariffs were lifted in the spirit of "free trade".
Banking regulations that were put in place after the great Depression were removed in 1999 in the spirit of "less regulation is good".
Tax burdens were moved away from corporations and firmly on to the middle class under the guise of "trickle down" economics.
Real wages declined or remained stagnant.
TADA!!!!!

I hope people are mad as hell.......I am.....and at our Congress. I believe they are the root of all our evils. I would like to start a movement across America to VOTE out of office EVERY one of our 535 Congressmen. They have proven to me that they cannot do the job of looking out for America. I am tired of pointing fingers at who did what to get us to this point . the way I see it , both parties are at fault. I would like to see which ever Senator is elected has a brand new Congress to work with. the one's there have lost site of their duties to protect this country. Today, The World Bank and The International Monatary Fund meets with the leaders or the G-7 to propose that the countries government begin takeing over "assets" as they begin bailing out failed banks. That is the way socialism begins, taking control of the banks. Can we take back America......how can we expect change if we keep sending back the same people to Washington that helped get us here to start with.......any thoughts......

I hope people are mad as hell.......I am.....and at our Congress. I believe they are the root of all our evils. I would like to start a movement across America to VOTE out of office EVERY one of our 535 Congressmen. They have proven to me that they cannot do the job of looking out for America. I am tired of pointing fingers at who did what to get us to this point . the way I see it , both parties are at fault. I would like to see which ever Senator is elected has a brand new Congress to work with. the one's there have lost site of their duties to protect this country. Today, The World Bank and The International Monatary Fund meets with the leaders or the G-7 to propose that the countries government begin takeing over "assets" as they begin bailing out failed banks. That is the way socialism begins, taking control of the banks. Can we take back America......how can we expect change if we keep sending back the same people to Washington that helped get us here to start with.......any thoughts......

I would have to agree with you on sending everyone packing. That would send a clear message to congress....Do your job or be replaced.

I would have to agree with you on sending everyone packing. That would send a clear message to congress....Do your job or be replaced.

That's what needs to be done, but I doubt if you'd ever see it.
It reminds me of the Lehman Bros. CEO testifying last week.
They asked him how can he justify the $480 million he made over the last eight years, when the company is failing?
He said that figure is not correct.
Well, what is correct?
I was paid $250 million plus around $30 million in other compensation.
Oh, and who awarded you this huge compensation?
Well, it was the compensation committee.
And who appointed the compensation committee?
Pause for about 10 seconds, then kind of quiet, "I had a hand in it"
It seems to me, the ones at the top got each other's back most of the time.

For the exact testimony, here's some of it :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKsixRnJwj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkEkxGsXmPI

That is a rhetorical question right?
Trade barriers and tariffs were lifted in the spirit of "free trade".
Banking regulations that were put in place after the great Depression were removed in 1999 in the spirit of "less regulation is good".
Tax burdens were moved away from corporations and firmly on to the middle class under the guise of "trickle down" economics.
Real wages declined or remained stagnant.
TADA!!!!!

R U a Scientist? How were you able to connect THOSE dots!?!!??!!!???:confused::confused:

:lol:

You're wrong though, our entire economic crisis is because Democrats wanted to get poor minorities to buy big expensive houses. :lol:

I stand corrected, oh Great One!:bowdown:

R U a Scientist? How were you able to connect THOSE dots!?!!??!!!???:confused::confused:

:lol:

You're wrong though, our entire economic crisis is because Democrats wanted to get poor minorities to buy big expensive houses. :lol:

I stand corrected, oh Great One!:bowdown:

Trickle down economics work, McCain swears. You know what they say, "forth time is a charm." Just give it another few chances. (until they can figure out a new way to consolidate America's wealth at the top) :duh::duh::dunce:

Too many folks went out on a limb with these risky loans and the limb broke....We need to go back to a system with less credit... if ya want it, pay me for it today!

Sadly, it's hindsight, but nonetheless correct. What the gov should do is probably nothing. As the old adage goes, if you want to know how to handle your money do the opposite of the government.

But since they will not just stand back, for less than 700B the gov could have set up negotiations with the financial institutions (instead of bailing them out with more money) to re-write mortgage loans and giving stretched out buyers some relief. Maybe on some kind of sliding scale. A plan that will allow the backers to keep getting monthly payments and most folks in dire straits stay in their home without going through the torturous foreclosure process which becomes a negative and sustaining cycle of failure for everyone involved.

Of course, along with that needs to be curtailment on personal credit. Lower the credit ceiling, and stiffen any new loan requirements.

Throwing money on Wall Street just delays the inevitable. Unless they expect some miracle to turn things around, no one has learned anything new. Just screw up and a government already in huge debt will print more money and save your butts while devaluing the dollar even more.

Here's what we are really seeing, but you aren't hearing. Americans buying power has bottomed out. The reason people use so much credit? They need it. Americans have the lowest saving rates in our history because it takes everything they make to survive. Wages are flat and have been flat for about 8 years, with some segments declining. Now, quadruple gas prices over that period of time and triple natural gas. Funny how the crisis manifested itself after oil spiked. Think of the billions of dollars that came OUT of our economy and went to Big Oil. That money came from somewhere, and retailers can tell you where. The fact that there are some bad sub-prime loans doesn't approach the cause of this mess, not by a long shot.

The problem with the govt is similar to the problem with the average US citizen: living above their means thanks to credit. I agree with ron paul when he said that the fed should be eliminated and go back to the gold standard. The federal reserve bank is designed to keep you in perpetual debt. It is nearly everywhere in the world. The fed is the bank of banks.

Here's what we are really seeing, but you aren't hearing. Americans buying power has bottomed out. The reason people use so much credit? They need it. Americans have the lowest saving rates in our history because it takes everything they make to survive. Wages are flat and have been flat for about 8 years, with some segments declining. Now, quadruple gas prices over that period of time and triple natural gas. Funny how the crisis manifested itself after oil spiked. Think of the billions of dollars that came OUT of our economy and went to Big Oil. That money came from somewhere, and retailers can tell you where. The fact that there are some bad sub-prime loans doesn't approach the cause of this mess, not by a long shot.

Its very simple when you actually think about it. What happens when productivity and purchasing keeps increasing, but wages stagnate? DEBT to the purchasers (middle class via credit) and wealth for the owners and shareholders.

Oh, believe me. I get it.

Here's what we are really seeing, but you aren't hearing. Americans buying power has bottomed out. The reason people use so much credit? They need it. Americans have the lowest saving rates in our history because it takes everything they make to survive. Wages are flat and have been flat for about 8 years, with some segments declining. Now, quadruple gas prices over that period of time and triple natural gas. Funny how the crisis manifested itself after oil spiked. Think of the billions of dollars that came OUT of our economy and went to Big Oil. That money came from somewhere, and retailers can tell you where. The fact that there are some bad sub-prime loans doesn't approach the cause of this mess, not by a long shot.

While it's true the devaluation of the dollar, oil dependence, along with low wages does leave the consumer with fewer options to make purchases, extending credit only perpetuates the problem.
Low wages is a serious problem, but it is not an excuse to spend more than you can afford.

Make credit easier to get, of course folks will take advantage of it. That's human nature, except for those wise enough to see the pitfalls of virtual money.

Limit credit's availability, business and the feds will have to come up with something else to sell goods. Like higher wages and lower taxes to make more cash available. Limit credit, you limit bad choices. People will be forced to only spend what they have.

You can turn a blind eye to credit debt as long as you make monthly payments but you always know how much cash you have on hand.

Oh, believe me. I get it.

:lol: Sorry, its rare to find someone that my words don't just bounce off of. I should have known, considering you haven't called me an American hating terrorist yet. (Thats usually where conversations go when you outsmart a dumb person)

For all of you with any money left, be aware of the next expected mergers so that you can get in on the ground floor and make some BIG bucks.

Watch for these consolidations in 2008:

1. Hale Business Systems, Mary Kay Cosmetics, Fuller Brush, and W. R. Grace Co. Will merge and become: Hale, Mary, Fuller, Grace.

2. PolygramRecords, Warner Bros., and ZestaCrackers join forces and become: Poly, Warner Cracker.

3. 3M will merge with Goodyear and become:
MMMGood.

4. ZippoManufacturing, AudiMotors, Dofasco, and Dakota Mining will merge and become: ZipudiDoDa.

5. FedEx is expected to join its competitor, UPS, and become: FedUP.

6. Fairchild Electronics and Honeywell Computers will become: Fairwell Honeychild.

7. Grey Poupon and Docker Pants are expected to become: PouponPants.

8. Knotts Berry Farm and the National Organization of Women will become: Knott NOW!

And finally....

9. Victoria 's Secret and Smith & Wesson will merge under the new name: TittyTittyBangBang

a simplfied version of where we are as a nation.........Joe 6pack brings home 2500 dollars a month but his bills are 3000 a month... Well, Joe has a little put back and he is able to tread water for a while but now the savings are gone and Joe is teetering on the edge of financial collapse..now joe has a good neighbor who steps in and tells joe that he will give him 500 a month for 1 year to keep his head above water.....So you see the problem dont ya? In one year Joe will still go belly up.... Joe's good neighbor didnt fix the problem only delayed the inevitable.....you have to cut out the cancer.....

Maybe this system of living on credit needs to collapse.....what I would like to hear our politicians say is that we are going to stop all overseas manufaturing and give our US based company large tax incintives to build and manufacture here in the good ol' USA put a large number of our people back to work and have made in the USA mean something again!... Do away with the Unions that insisted on a man earning $30.00 an hour to turn one screw in the assembly line.... I say pay a man an honest wage for an honest days work...tighten credit so folks dont overextend and limit the import of foriegn goods....it will take time but eventually people will have real money in their pockets and the economy will once again have stable legs to stand on.....

P.S. I have a total of $310.00 in credit card debt

Wow- I was completely with you up till the Union stuff.
Do away with the unions? Uh.... The same greedy corporate assholes that raped this country into bankruptcy are the same assholes you are insisting pay us an "honest wage for an honest days work". Less than 17% of Americas workers are Union members. Find another scapegoat. Seriously.

PS- We are paying off our home on Wednesday, then determine how much we owe on the wifes car and paying that off. Zero credit Card balance as of next month. Well, technically, zero debt next month.

I find these words to be very timely......







1802 prediction happening now.
Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

From Thomas Jefferson,3rd President of US(1743-1826)



Quote of the Week
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson 1802

Wow- I was completely with you up till the Union stuff.
Do away with the unions? Uh.... The same greedy corporate assholes that raped this country into bankruptcy are the same assholes you are insisting pay us an "honest wage for an honest days work". Less than 17% of Americas workers are Union members. Find another scapegoat. Seriously.

PS- We are paying off our home on Wednesday, then determine how much we owe on the wifes car and paying that off. Zero credit Card balance as of next month. Well, technically, zero debt next month.


from an article dated sept 2007,

The United Auto Workers are once again threatenting to hold the struggling American auto industry hostage for a bunch of "benefits" they don't deserve. If they don't get their way they are supposed to walk off the assembly lines at 11:00 today. Name another industry in which you can demand and get absurdly generous retirement packages and health care coverage until you die, exorbitant salaries far above what the labor market would otherwise bear, and no-fault job security? General Motors, and all other U.S. auto makers, have become little more than retirement benefit providers. Here's an exerpt from an article over at National Review about how out of whack the labor union contracts are...

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

Yup, Great for America no wonder companies take thier manufacturing jobs to Mexico and overseas....wouldnt you?
Congrats on the zero debt F91!...I wish more americans were in our shoes....

To put things in perspective, many auto-workers never work a full year due to changes in production, plant closings, etc. So often that $30 an hour does not translate to more than fair wages. Plus, today, many companies cross-train employees to perform multiple tasks.

But I agree that most reasons to have unions are diminishing. Not to say there are still not injustices in the workplace, even though a lot of legislation is in place to improve morale (diversity, sexual harassment, safety & ethics training, etc.) as well as raising the minimum wage.

Child labor is a thing of the past as are unsafe working conditions compared with the workplace only 25 years ago. Not to say some unions were not responsible for pushing many of these issues to the forefront. No argument there.

But loyalty can only go so far...a strike is devastating to all parties, not least the those on strike. And I have seen more than my share of goldbrickers who should be fired but are protected under unions. I say that as a son a of union man, and I have walked a strike line before.

But as the workplace improves and more protections are put in place, ombudsmen and other avenues to mediation can gradually take over the tasks of unions. This way specific issues can be escalated and addressed without affecting an entire workforce. That does away with union dues and the added burearacy to support it.

One the biggest problems I've seen of late are abuses in small businesses.
Obviously no one should have to deal with injustice or abuse in their place of work no matter what the size of the business.

Some form of efficient watchdogging is probably the best thing to incorporate into a business environment. Hopefully, one that can not be easily corrupted.

You all failed to see that gas at the pump, bad mortgages, unemployment, no jobs, buy outs, companies gone under, and tent cities this wasn't the American dream for all us. Everything has to be re-done, the way we all live has changed.
Some here might be okay have a lot of money and some might be middle class, I don't think the poor is here. I had taken a pole last year and found out many in the forum consider themselves cheap, and poor and the others were okay. Percentage was higher for those who where cheap and poor.

Pappy- I like a lot of what you are saying, but honestly, Unions aren't the boogeyman (that Republicans always seem to need. ACORN anyone?)
I was wrong in my early post. The current number of Unionized, private sector workers in America is less than 9%. 9%! During the Reagan years, it was 25%. Hmmmm, what has changed? Trickle down economics anyone?
Unless America imposes tariffs to protect American factories (you know, like Japan and China do), the decline you see in our economy will continue. American worker productivity has increased every year and wages have not. That's a bad thing.
Despite cries for an honest wage for an honest days work, not many people can support a family, or the American dream cutting grass. In fact, anything American workers do, be it build automobiles or enter data at a desk, can be done far cheaper in dozens of other countries. Wages are not, nor ever have been the issue. The driving issue is profit for Corporations.
Lastly, since every other industrialized nation has Government sponsored health care, US businesses are at an immediate disadvantage. Without the burden of supplying health care to it's workers, overseas companies have a built in price advantage, immediately.

Insurance companies would loose there foot hold on us, if US has government control health care service and doctors would get paid by the government so there would be a cap on what they can earn or take that medicare to the next level. I would like to see the US government give us all the same as they get. Every time go see my doctor for 15 minutes it cost me $180, well I only pay $20 for coe-pay it use to be $10 but it keeps going up. For EMS (white van) to pick me up from my house cost over $500 bucks that sounds crazy and I am better off waiting for the wife to take me to the ER. That happen once just like that.. Then it took 2 hrs before someone could look me over. Taking blood was a joke and x-rays weren't any better the staff was fighting on who was going to do it. Just to stay in the ER- private room cost me over $5,000 for 5 hrs.

Tariffs will never work. US is too dependant upon other nations to even try that. It may have been possible 10 years ago but it definitely won't work now. US has really lost its luster over the years; nothing but debt is "made in america" today.

Tariffs will never work. US is too dependant upon other nations to even try that. It may have been possible 10 years ago but it definitely won't work now. US has really lost its luster over the years; nothing but debt is "made in america" today.

No there are stuff made here like Weathertech (Made USA) to name a few.. Take USA out of the picture then what does the world have or could the world survive without the USA. The answer is no..

Never heard of the company, so I did a google on them. They seem to make floor mats for cars... You are joking..rite? ;)

No there are stuff made here like Weathertech (Made USA) to name a few.. Take USA out of the picture then what does the world have or could the world survive without the USA. The answer is no..

Never heard of the company, so I did a google on them. They seem to make floor mats for cars... You are joking..rite? ;)

No I am not kidding! They make them expensive..

I got this from them so far just to carry my two dogs in our new SUV...

cargo liner
http://www.weathertech.com/images/item_groups/thumbnails/medium/41310_07_Yukon_2_DOGs1.jpg

cargo barrier
http://www.weathertech.com/images/item_groups/thumbnails/medium/Pet_Barrier_w_Dog_v14_50.jpg

front/second row mats (most expensive item here)
http://www.weathertech.com/images/item_groups/thumbnails/medium/460661_Yukon_07.jpg

They use computers to give you digital fit, they charge $18 for shipping a box like below...

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1611fb9acb93a17b88111ca166bb80a54g.jpg

But I didn't order the above from them, I got it from Amazon and saved $60 bucks plus $18 for shipping as Amazon does that freebie shipping which I got in less than 2 days.. Just got the Cargo barrier today (tuesday) both pieces still made out cheaper.

I agree with F91; unions and tarrifs are paramount to our country. We have to protect, provide, and encourage American jobs (with tariffs on foreign goods, and tax cuts to US manufacturers and job creators) and then we need to pay those jobs good wages with unions. Unions can ensure that wages increase as a company's profitability and productivity increases. How come when a company doubles its profits, the employees get nothing and the shareholders get rich? We don't value our labor enough in this country. Financial capital is more valuable than labor capital, meaning that you can get more with money than you can with labor.

What people fail to understand, is that a wealthier working class means a stronger economy. If the buyers have more money, they're going to buy more.

Got to be a bargain or no dice!