I don't get it....

I keep hearing about Plasmas superior picture and deeper blacks etc..... well that may be what the numbers say when software is hooked up, but its not what my eyes say.

I do a bit of sound recording and you can tap into the soundboard during a live concert that has been tweaked perfectly and unless you also tweak the tap for your recording with another board, its likely to sound terrible as all the acoustics of the room and equipment cannot get into the wires to make it to your tap so what you "hear" live is different than what gets recorded for later playback.

Likewise, when monitoring plasma with software etc... I don't know exactly how this is done, but I"m guessing the while polarized light that bounces off of the plasma screen and then mixes with the blacks to wash them to grey as well as the other colors, aren't factored in.

Anyone sees how beautiful a photo is when taken with a polarizing filter verses not... I feel like the plasma has lost the filter "so to speak".

I know in the stores there are tons of lights to reflect where in most houses there are few.... but ignoring the reflections mentioned above, when standing next to a LCD 1080P 120Hz "or 60Hz for that matter" and when the plasma is next to it, I just see sharper clearer, brighter more defined pictures in the LCD display?

Especially if they show a shot where there is tiny detail in the distance like a pan of a mountain valley with grass and trees in the bottom.. I feel like if there was an elk down there, I could see it with the LCD even though the shot appears to be a mile away.. I don't get that feeling with the plasma?... not at all in the store anyway.
How about a football game and you see the massive crowd in the distance... I feel I could recognize my friend at the game better with the LCD.

We all know "any" tv looks great when you get it home and there's nothing better right next to it to compare it to in your house.
So, that being the case, how do we "really" know a plasma willl look better once we get it home than a LCD of similar specs?

I went to buy a plasma after tons of research and reading, but I"m sorry, I can't defy what my eyes see and buy what looks worse?>>>> I must go with the LCD?

My living rooms is usually pretty dark with lights behind the viewers most of the time... and I sit about 20 feet away.

Can anyone help clear this up for me as I'm trying to buy but am majorly confused and want to make the best choice as to not have buyers remorse later..
thanks.

LCD's always look better in the stores, always. What TV's were you looking at?

Stores have high intensity lighting that skews your visual perception when comparing LCD to plasma. In real world situations, in home environments, plasma TV's have deeper black levels, more vivid colors, greater shadow detail. That holds true except in brightly lit rooms where LCD shines. The general rule of thumb I go by is if you watched a CRT in the room without any problems or distracting reflections then plasma is for you. If not go for a LCD. I own both and although I really love the picture on my LCD TV's they can't compare with my plasmas.

Dunno . . .

Stores: Hell, the Best Buy near me has a pretty well set up "HD Showroom" with very subdued lighting . . . more subdued than the "average" television household that I have seen lately.
I would say they are set up to demonstrate quite well any performance features that plasma might offer over LCD.
Wall Mart . . . well that's another story.
There's "stores" and then, there's "stores".

As to whether plasmas have "deeper black levels", "more vivid colors" and "greater shadow detail" to a noticeable degree in the home of a normal viewer has yet to be resolved (and probably never will).

I think the OP's comments and opinions were pretty well stated and probably echo those of a large portion of the population. I will say however, that sitting "about 20 feet away" from the TV sort of relegates further comment/discussion to a rather low level . . . except perhaps to add that at that distance the issues of "black level" and "shadow detail" are probably of little significance.
What may be of greater significace in such a viewing situation is perhaps the ability of LCD sets to provide higher "white levels" and screen luminance at that distance.

Why would white levels and screen luminence matter at that distance and black levels not?

The question of what TVs he was looking at should also be taken into consideration.

Why would white levels and screen luminence matter at that distance and black levels not?
White level, aka luminance allows for a "brighter" picture; recall that light source effective brightness (what the human eye perceives) diminishes as the square of the distance (the "Inverse Square Law"), so for a TV to "appear" as bright at a distance of 20 feet as it did at 10 feet, the luminosity must be increased by a factor of 4!
LCD have "brightness" to spare . . . Plasma sets do not.

Similarly, the human eye sensitivity to darker content is much less sensitive than to brighter content . . . both the "absolute black level" and the distinguishing differences between "shades of grey" in shadow detail become much more difficult to perceive as distance increases . . . . again because of the inverse square law.

Your point makes great sense, and its hard to disagree with. But I think the difference one will see with brightness will not be a huge problem, there is always a bigger tv too.

I agree with Windstrings. Every time i looked together and compared a PLASMA and LCD HDTV, i found that LCD has better PQ. I don't understand why in every forum about HDTV, everyone flattering and promote plasma tv. I know that, on paper, plasma has better specifications, but in reality LCD wins.

but in reality LCD wins.

It's mostly a personal choice. I, for one, cannot stand watching LCD in low-light situations. It feels like I have 20 000 flashlights beaming at my eyes. It just hurts. Does not matter which LCD, XBR included, the result is the same.

On the other hand, the PQ on my plasma (pz80), has a "velvety" look. Much less sharp, bright, than a LCD but I find the colors soooooo realistic.

The difference between the two is similar to Altec Lansing speakers compared to Harbeth Monitor speakers. Sound from the first one is crisp, highly compressed, cold, while the second one is smooth, silky. (There's also a phenomenal price difference between the two...).

Interesting finding this thread here. The other day I stopped into the local Circuit City with the express purpose of comparing Plasma with LCD.

The TV area at this CC has the lighting somewhat subdued. I was looking at Samsung, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sony, and LG in the 46-52" sizes.

I tried real hard to see the better PQ that plasma supposedly offered, but could not. If anything, the plasmas have a softer picture - kind of the affect I would get if I placed slightly frosted glass over an LCD. Reminded me of the fuzzy light one sees around a neon light bulb (like an NE-2, not a neon sign) or one of those electric candles.

In the size range I was looking at, the plasma had a slight price advantage, but I sure couldn't see the superior PQ that everyone seems to rave about.

The question of what TVs he was looking at should also be taken into consideration.

Also WHAT he was watching . . . I have 2 LCD TVs and they are great-- particularly for anything done with computer graphics and cartoons. . . But for something photographed, like Planet Earth, I MUCH prefer plasma; it just looks more REAL.

I suppose it is just a personal preference. Some people have spent hundreds of $ getting a professional calibration, and then readjusted their set to jack up the color, brightness, sharpness to where it was when they started . . . because that is how they like it. There is nothing wrong with that. Some folks just don't want to see things as they really are.

As they say, "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?":lol:

Plasmas TV's reflect background lights and images like crazy, that's also why you like LCD better, like I do, it's the extra glass panel on top of the screen that screws it all up, with LCD all you see is the picture directly with no obstruction.

All I can say from currently owning 2 LCDs, 1 DLP RPTV, and 1 plasma (50pz80u) is that when you turn the lights down low there is no contest for me, but I like things to look as close to natural as possible and do not like real people/things to look like cartoons. I go to many people's houses and most have color saturation way too high for it to look real, and they are often blindingly bright with contrast at 100%.

Even those less bright stores are STILL bright than nearly all home lighting by a good margin from what I have seen. The difference in average nighttime viewing (or daytime with blinds) makes plasmas shine easily over my LCDs or anyone else's LCD I have seen, even after adjusting theirs in an actual home.

Store showrooms are where LCDs shine and is WHY many people think they look better there. In a home the black levels alone on an LCD show the inherent weakness of LCD. If someone has a light meter and find the lighting in their home is even half of what those stores are, then they should go with LCD (and God bless them and their light bill too). :D

I hate to say it, but it depends on whether someone wants their displays to show as close to what real life TRULY looks like or what they WANT real life to look like. If you are the former, then plasma is probably for you. If you like the latter, then LCD is for you. Everyone gets to make up their own mind. It is their eyes and their choice. ;)

Plasmas TV's reflect background lights and images like crazy, that's also why you like LCD better, like I do, it's the extra glass panel on top of the screen that screws it all up, with LCD all you see is the picture directly with no obstruction.

Exactly why if you cannot control your lighting lcd is a better choice. I'll agree with PFC5 Plasmas do a much better job of displaying realistic shadows and color depth, making things look more realistic.

I>>>> I must go with the LCD?

My living rooms is usually pretty dark with lights behind the viewers most of the time... and I sit about 20 feet away.

Can anyone help clear this up for me as I'm trying to buy but am majorly confused and want to make the best choice as to not have buyers remorse later..
thanks.

So, what size LCD are you getting 60"? 65"? Larger?

It is very much a personal preference. No two people see color exactly the same way. They will be highly similar, but never exact. It's kind of like fingerprints. Hence why you can ask two people to look at a 50% mix of red and blue. Some will say it looks more red than blue, some will say more blue than red. Then of course, there are those smart asses that will say it's purple. :lol:

To me, LCD with some HD sources looks too sharp and un-natural. I want HD to look like real life. As though I were right there. Sometimes it ends up looking plastic, too shiny with edges that are too well defined.

Some say they're waiting for video games to look like real life. I say there are instances where TV shows look like a video game. Too much edge enhancment and to me it's MUCH more noticeable on an LCD.

:2cents

It's mostly a personal choice. I, for one, cannot stand watching LCD in low-light situations. It feels like I have 20 000 flashlights beaming at my eyes. It just hurts. Does not matter which LCD, XBR included, the result is the same.

On the other hand, the PQ on my plasma (pz80), has a "velvety" look. Much less sharp, bright, than a LCD but I find the colors soooooo realistic.

The difference between the two is similar to Altec Lansing speakers compared to Harbeth Monitor speakers. Sound from the first one is crisp, highly compressed, cold, while the second one is smooth, silky. (There's also a phenomenal price difference between the two...).

I agree, this may indeed be all about personal choice...
There are many "purest" who don't want to alter or distort the original file or recording.... whereas I see it a bit different, although getting colors to match on every channel for skin tone can be a challenge, I prefer the crispness and detail.

1. I really think some who do not have perfect vision, feel like seeing the work through HD is unrealistic looking.
However, thats why I bought HD.. I want to feel like I'm there, not like I'm watching a perfect film or movie.

Any tricks or enhancements that can be made to the file or recording "thats not perfect" that will make it look like the perfect world, I'm all for it.

I see reality or the world we are viewing outside as "the original", not the film or recording I'm watching.

One viewer the other night said she felt like she was seeing through a magnifying glass because she could see detail she could never see even in real life.

I liken it to looking at the world through my Swarovski 8.5 X 42 binoculars.. the world is crisp, perfect and becomes a wonderland when such detail for the mind to process is presented.

HD Cameras pull in tons of information and have abilities that our natural eyes cannot capture on thier own... Like an eagle, they can see a football player sweat across a pimple at 100yards.. something our eye cannot catch on its own, but if we have the proper HD monitor that can capture what the HD camera can see, our world is transformed!

I was watch CSI Miami the other night and was amazed and the rich blues and greens of the Oceans and hillsides and the descret detail of the city shots where you could see every tiny sign detail and writing and even look into the stores and almost read the ingredients of the box of Kelloggs!.. LOL!

Yes, thats why I bought this monitor.... When I walked in the stores over the last few months.. I didn't realize what I was looking at, but it was the LCD monitors that really captured my attention and made me salivate for one of my own..... not the plasma's.

I agree, Plasma may have an edge in some issues, but when it comes to the final experience, LCD turns my world into a wonderland much better than the soft tones of "forgiving plasma"

In close up photos, you will notice they purposely "soften" the picture to hide imperfections "reality" so as to make the face look more airbrushed with a seeming perfect blemishless look.

I on the other hand, am entertained in the fact the Hollywood has a harder job in thier makeup department as today's LCD Screens show it the way iit really is rather than the way they want you to see it!

I'm certainly not trying to make this a moral issue, its merely preference... but I do like the feeling of "being there!".

Besides, after buying all this, I have to take vacation in my living room for a while as I can't afford the real thing!.. LOL....

BTW.. I bought the Samsung LN52A650A1F and with a little tweaking of the settings, its better than beeing there, as I can see much more on the field from my couch than if I really bought the ticket and hassled with the trip and parking!

As they say, "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?":lol:

Excellent point Bob!.... some folks have different eyes.. some folks are color blind or only slightly, and some walk around with 20/40 vision "or worse" and don't even realize it.. they are not used to seeing the world in High Def.

And then again, to some its sheer preference... Just like I may like a bold red car and another likes grey or white.

Everytime I sit down at a restaurant now and see an LCD on the wall.. I want to go adjust it for them.. but my Wife keeps threatening me if I do!

Excellent point Bob!.... some folks have different eyes.. some folks are color blind or only slightly, and some walk around with 20/40 vision "or worse" and don't even realize it.. they are not used to seeing the world in High Def.

And then again, to some its sheer preference... Just like I may like a bold red car and another likes grey or white.

Everytime I sit down at a restaurant now and see an LCD on the wall.. I want to go adjust it for them.. but my Wife keeps threatening me if I do!

Yup! You sure have the HT bug now and there is no turning back either. :lol: