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Black Friday survey at Best Buy

bruceames
11-23-2007, 06:17 PM
Found this interesting post and wanted to share. I liked that BB was (is) offering $100 off any HD standalone player with the purchase of an HDTV priced $1000 and above. This has apparently helped sell quite a few A3 players, but hardly any BD players.

Judging by the amazingly long lines at all CE B/M locations we visited since 3:30 AM this morning and re-visiting throughout the day, today for CE - it's going to be a big day...Crowds of 1000 person's or more were not uncommon here in the Los Angeles Area with some stores as late as 10 AM PST still having long lines just to get into the doors.

We've taken a break to give up our observations up till now..

An early morning questionnaire that we used while people were waiting in line showed the following today...Sample size was 166 persons, 81% male, the balance, you know. 79% were 18-34 as defined by our demographic profile. The rest, 9% 34-49 were nearly all male, the last percent category was 49-54 and was made up of people that identified themselves as parents getting gifts for persons under the age of 18.

36% came to the store to buy the laptop promotion being offered.

23% came out to buy a new home computer on sale

26% came out to buy a new HD TV including computer monitors valued over $ 1000.

14% cited they specifically came to buy a gaming console or game related accessory.

1% cited software, games, dvd's, music, and other as reasons to shop.

When asked if they were in line to buy a new High Definition DVD player, all 166 respondents replied no. A whopping 78% didn't even no what the formats were when asked if they had heard of "Blu Ray Disc or HD DVD".

So, the so-called value promotions from the HD DVD camp and the Blu Ray Camp showed that today's discounting, from what we found, was not profound enough still, as a whole, to make people camp out on city streets for. This from the group we sampled.

However, once the early bird line waiters filed in as doors opened, hoards more consumers began to wait in lines that stretched in some places over a block long..

Our time spent in the store.. in the Home Theater, DVD hardware and software areas, the Gaming Areas, the checkout counters etc...

The following results became clear as soon as an hour after the doors opened...

Playstation 3's began to move. HD DVD players were selling at a quick pace, XBOX 360 special bundles sold real well, but still the wii was flying out the doors with some stores selling out of product and accessories very early in the morning.

On the negative side for both formats...Terrible software sales, horrible..The HD DVD aisle was active to reflect peoples purchases of the players, but the Blu Ray aisle was all but dead with no interest in it all...Both formats matched the market saturation as far as consumer interest today..( 1% to 2% of the DVD market is HD format buyers) Clearly, DVD is not dead, not by a long shot..That statement should humble some very overly excited talkers in this and other forums to keep their thoughts within their own perspective not speak as if it's from a place of consensus by means of owning a Playstation or HD DVD player.

People were buying PILES of Standard Def films and TONS of standard def DVD players still, in really large numbers...Many people had two or three standard def players in hand, it was not uncommon.

The photo attachments will show the volume standard def DVD's still bolting out the door.

As far as HD DVD and Blu Ray, here's the bottom line folks..

HD DVD clearly, by a very wide margin, outsold Blu Ray in stand alone sales at every single store we went to..Some Blu Ray stacks had sold no units as of 10 AM spot checks so the margin was all red so to speak as Blu was all but dead..

Yes, the playstation's were selling, like crazy? No. Did any store's run out like last year, hardly..But, the XBOX Guitar Hero bundles were selling at the same pace, some BB stores sold out of the Arcade Bundle, so by no mean's did Playstation pull off a huge touchdown..Don't get me wrong, they all sold well, but the wii is still the item to beat in gaming...

No Playstation buyer we interviewed said they were buying it "because" of the Blu Ray player..Some said they liked having it with the player, again, based on price and value...

The offer that Best Buy ran claiming "take another $ 100 off ANY Blu Ray or HDDVD player when you buy a $ 1000 HD TV" deal all but killed Blu Ray way in favor of HD DVD..That promotion appeared to have worked better than the $ 199 deal.

Folks, I saw maybe a couple of thousand standard def players and, I might add, loads of DVR's (another BIG seller) sailing out those automatic doors today...Why?

Conclusion....Price...Both of these camps are going to have a horrible time getting any adoption moving at huge rates without dropping the prices substantially to match what the consumer today thinks of the value of a "dvd" player..The general public's interest in these new formats is still nil I am afraid..It is still stuck in "early adopter" mode but, Toshiba is the only one trying to fix that, you gotta give them credit for making moves but I tell ya people, the $ 99 threshold is the sweet spot..

The other side of it is HD software prices, there were no sales that we saw at ANY store we visited outside of a small deal on the $ 34.99 Live Free Die Hard BD..

With the thousands of people we saw so far, we saw no mass buying of HD DVD titles or Blu Ray, period.

Some ridiculous errors in both content camps...At ANY store visited, we maybe found ONE copy of Transformers HD DVD for sale, and it's Black Friday FGS. I'd be firing people at Paramount HE if I worked there..Same for Disney, Fox, and SONY..Ratatoille same thing, Cars - a few, very large stationary stocks of Spidey and SHREK...Pirates, no titles at any locations...
And no people, we immediately checked the software aisles for stock and sales at store opening times...This was a blunder nearly on all sides of this fence..No retailer had a healthy stock of "must have" titles for that matter outside of Knocked Up, it was in stock in quantity everywhere.
Attached Thumbnails

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 06:28 PM
Uh Oh . . . not good.

I had hoped that retailers would embrace the HD formats. From the observations in the stores visited - the retailers may have stacks of players - but the software selection and quantities don't match.

It almost sounds like the retailers (mentioned) have token amounts of movies only which does not instill confidence in the consumer.

We all know that the high prices of HD Movies is going to be a stumbling block for the formats.

PS: Bruce - big kiss to you from my Mom - she thanks you for the info that allowed her to save almost $40 this morning by calling Amazon and have the A3 price adjusted. She asked me to pass that along to you and wish you and yours a Happy Holidays.:)

niennumb1
11-23-2007, 06:31 PM
Very interesting! Thank you for posting that. That sounds pretty accurate to what I saw at the store today too as far as SD DVDs. And I was quite peeved to see NO STORE HAD HD TITLES ON SALE!!!! That was very disappointing.

Overall I think I'm done physically going out on Black Friday. It's not worth it. For sanity's sake.... it's not worth any savings to wait hours in line at the checkout.

bruceames
11-23-2007, 06:37 PM
Uh Oh . . . not good.

I had hoped that retailers would embrace the HD formats. From the observations in the stores visited - the retailers may have stacks of players - but the software selection and quantities doesn't match.

It almost sounds like the retailers (mentioned) have token amounts of movies only which does not instill confidence in the consumer.

We all know that the high prices of HD Movies is going to be a stumbling block for the formats.

PS: Bruce - big kiss to you from my Mom - she thanks you for the info that allowed her to save almost $40 this morning by calling Amazon and have the A3 price adjusted. She asked me to pass that along to you and wish you and yours a Happy Holidays.:)

Thanks to you and your mom for the kind words. :hithere:

It was too bad that BB couldn't even have a token sale on a few HD DVD/BDs, as it would have helped sell a few players and also more regular-priced movies. If there's no sale, then nobody will even bother to walk down the aisle. :(

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 06:40 PM
Thanks to you and your mom for the kind words. :hithere:

It was too bad that BB couldn't even have a token sale on a few HD DVD/BDs, as it would have helped sell a few players and also more regular-priced movies. If there's no sale, then nobody will even bother to walk down the aisle. :(

What good is a sale if there is no product on the shelves?:(

bruceames
11-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Overall I think I'm done physically going out on Black Friday. It's not worth it. For sanity's sake.... it's not worth any savings to wait hours in line at the checkout.

Same here. Often you can get better deals online these days anyway. It's amazing the time and effort people will spend just to save a few bucks. I think it's all about thinking you got a good deal so you don't have the buyers remorse, more than just reaping the actual savings (which is also nice, but practically speaking, one should consider the costs of saving. :D)

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 07:06 PM
Wow!

I started a thread at AVS with the OP - it lasted 5 minutes - they pulled it.

Thought it was within the new rules - affected both formats the same - bad news for both.

:mad:

MidnightWatche
11-23-2007, 07:08 PM
It shouldn't be any surprise that when compared to standard DVD and standard DVD players, high-def formats are still doing about 2%. Both HD DVD an Blu-ray are still relatively new. What I was glad to read however was just how much more popular HD DVD seemed to be, and HD DVD player sales seemed to reflect that.

Allin4greeN
11-23-2007, 07:17 PM
HDM is destined to follow the path of Laser Disc...

MidnightWatche
11-23-2007, 07:22 PM
HDM is destined to follow the path of Laser Disc...
Laser Disc was quite successful and was around for 20 years.

bruceames
11-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Laser Disc was quite successful and was around for 20 years.

Good point. Lasar discs and players were too expensive anyway to go mainstream. VHS was only mainstream after several years and initially only as rentals (heck, even the players were for rent). DVD never took off for three years and here we are only 1 1/2 into the format and people think HDM is going to fail because it isn't beating DVD yet. As it stands now, HDM accounts for about 5% of optical movie sales by dollar volume, but around 2% or so by units sold. HDM is simply constrained by HDTV adoption and that will happen and HD DVD has already proven that price won't be an issue for their format in the future.

Super XP
11-23-2007, 07:34 PM
IMO, Hi Def is not being advertized properly and people are confusing HD DVD/BD players with DVD up-converting players.

Retailers really do a bad job explaining this to people hence bad sales.

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 07:42 PM
Laser Disc was quite successful and was around for 20 years.

Really? As a niche format I agree.

20 years - USA stats:

18,000 titles

Approx 2 million players (not sure of number - I thought about 1 million - Superman said 3 million - went the middle ground:D )

MikeRox
11-23-2007, 07:46 PM
I'm selfish, but I don't really care about HD DVD or Blu-ray going mainstream, so long as one of em sticks around to give me movie releases for years to come.

Codes20
11-23-2007, 07:52 PM
I personally sold both HD-DVD and Blu-ray today at BB. The deal we had going with $100 off really help to clear out 20 or so A-3s in a matter of a couple hours. I sold a few Samsung 1400 players as well.

But yes, I asked many people who are just there to get the "big screen" TV for cheap if they had an HD source and mentioned HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I got the "deer in headlights" look 50% of the time. That's a lot when you talk to probably 30-50 people an hour about HDTVs.

I try my best to educate people, but I'm only one man.

I'm still trying to figure out what the Blu-ray camp is going to do help people about profiles in players sold this holiday season. Seems like some Blu-ray adopters are going to be irritated after this Christmas when they need to update their player to play a new movie and have no idea in hell of how to do it. I tried to explain this to the Blu-ray buyers but it's hard when all they are doing is trying to get out of the store with their items.

bruceames
11-23-2007, 07:57 PM
I'm selfish, but I don't really care about HD DVD or Blu-ray going mainstream, so long as one of em sticks around to give me movie releases for years to come.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that. :)

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 08:03 PM
I don't think you'll have to worry about that. :)

I wish I had your confidence.

bruceames
11-23-2007, 08:07 PM
I wish I had your confidence.

I just can't imagine an HDTV world without HD optical media, but anything can happen, sure. Paramount already proved that. :D

myturn
11-23-2007, 08:10 PM
I noticed when walmart ran their first $99.00 sale that there were no hd dvd's on the shelves. This is not the way to sell a dvd format. I was also disappointed to see no hd or blu-ray dvd sales from the bm stores on bf, again a major blunder from the industry.

Toshiba & Sony take too long to get out the free dvd's and the sales you do find are usually for older titles or titles you don't want.
Those are just a few observations of the blunders that this industry is not taken seriously.

Recently there was a post from a Disney rep saying they expect a "churn" from the early adapters because the format they chose will render all the early players useless for the new features they are planning on bringing out. Well $500.00 is not suposed to be a "churn" item!
Most people will not tolerate this for too long before they turn on the entire high def dvd format and opt to continue with the standard dvd's instead.

bruceames
11-23-2007, 08:16 PM
Most people will not tolerate this for too long before they turn on the entire high def dvd format and opt to continue with the standard dvd's instead.

I don't know. For most people HD has a 'Tivo' effect. Once you have it there's no going back. It's only a matter of meeting their price point to get them in, and as the poster says, $99 is the 'sweet spot'. HD DVD should hit it with regularity by next fall. But as he also observed, another big stumbling block is awareness. Most people don't even know about the format war to begin with!

DKwhite
11-23-2007, 08:16 PM
Wow!

I started a thread at AVS with the OP - it lasted 5 minutes - they pulled it.

Thought it was within the new rules - affected both formats the same - bad news for both.

:mad:

Dude, I've had so many new posts that fit within their rules pulled that it's not even funny.

The last time I posted was when one of the moderators renewed the old "Format War" thread (Part IV), I asked them how we were supposed to post in that thread if we couldn't discuss player or disk sales and now I can't find that thread. hehe.

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 08:24 PM
Back to the OP - same people - the day before Black Friday . . day after ST-TOS was released:

From the High Def Digest Marketingguru on black friday

My staff and I just returned from an "in-store" tour of 14 Los Angeles area Best Buy stores to evaluate the chain's preparation for Black Friday and the products that are receiving the all important store placement and promotion...

Oh, All stores had sold out of the Star Trek HD DVD packs...Spiderman 3 was readily available in all packages and 10 stores were out of Ratatoille. Close Encounters was sold out at the display at all stores.

Now we can compare BEFORE BF and DURING BF

Some ridiculous errors in both content camps...At ANY store visited, we maybe found ONE copy of Transformers HD DVD for sale, and it's Black Friday FGS. I'd be firing people at Paramount HE if I worked there..Same for Disney, Fox, and SONY..Ratatoille same thing, Cars - a few, very large stationary stocks of Spidey and SHREK...Pirates, no titles at any locations...
And no people, we immediately checked the software aisles for stock and sales at store opening times...This was a blunder nearly on all sides of this fence..No retailer had a healthy stock of "must have" titles for that matter outside of Knocked Up, it was in stock in quantity everywhere.

I am questioning his "ST-TOS Sold Out" claim. IMO - they didn't have any to begin with or they are in the DVD aisle where others have been finding them

DKwhite
11-23-2007, 08:27 PM
IMO, Hi Def is not being advertized properly and people are confusing HD DVD/BD players with DVD up-converting players.

Retailers really do a bad job explaining this to people hence bad sales.

It doesn't help that even Toshiba's own upconverting players are being advertised as HD players. I saw several in different ads yesterday as the wife and I went through them. Talk about confusing.

myturn
11-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Most people don't even know about the format war to begin with!

I will say this much... Those that have an hdtv do know about the two high def dvd formats.

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I will say this much... Those that have an hdtv do know about the two high def dvd formats.

You better hope and pray that you are dead wrong because there are 45+ million HDTV owners right now and less than 750,000 have bought an SAL HD movie player.:(

Lee Stewart
11-23-2007, 08:40 PM
I just can't imagine an HDTV world without HD optical media, but anything can happen, sure. Paramount already proved that. :D

I got into LD in 1983. Stuck with it till 1997. Acquired about 800 titles.

I can't tell you how many movies that came out on VHS DID NOT come out on LD.

I can draw correlation after corelation between LD and VHS when compared to HDM and DVD. They are almost identical with the exception of the player pricing. It is scary how much the two "eras" mimick each other. Some time I will start a thread comparing the two.

LD - 20 years - 18,000 titles (USA)

DVD - 10 years - 77,000 titles (USA)

myturn
11-23-2007, 08:43 PM
I know of several friends who have an hdtv, and when I asked them about a high def dvd player they have all said, "not until there is one format", they don't want to get burned.
The lower price on the players is helping IMO but again if the studios do not get the software out there and advertise it they are going to hurt this industry.

meh130
11-23-2007, 09:00 PM
I noticed when walmart ran their first $99.00 sale that there were no hd dvd's on the shelves.

Huh? The $98.87 Wal-Mart HD-A2 sale was held in conjunction with a selection of HD DVD titles on sale for $14.95. There was a big point of sale display in the aisle right by the HD-A2s where I bought my A2. I bought Casino, Blood Diamond, Backdraft, The Last Samurai, and Seabiscuit. There were several other titles on sale as well (I seem to remember Unforgiven being one of the sale titles).

Codes20
11-23-2007, 09:02 PM
I will say this much... Those that have an hdtv do know about the two high def dvd formats.

I work at BB and half of the people I talk to about TVs and home theater have no idea what HDDVD and/or Blu-ray is. This is regardless of if they have an HDTV or not.

Bravestime
11-23-2007, 09:16 PM
I know of several friends who have an hdtv, and when I asked them about a high def dvd player they have all said, "not until there is one format", they don't want to get burned.
The lower price on the players is helping IMO but again if the studios do not get the software out there and advertise it they are going to hurt this industry.

My brother-in-law feels the same way. He knows about the hi-def war but does not want to commit to either format until the dust settles with one winner.

I did notice the first WM $98 A2 sale, I saw a customer put a A2 in his basket then started looking for HD-DVD dvds to buy. WM had only 2 titles! :eek: Blu-ray about 2 dozen. This is insane! With out hi-def dvds to play in the players, why buy the players! WM will have to do a better job! They have to reduce the hi-def dvd prices down in order to move them. $35 is rediculous! $20-25 has to be the max.

I would hate the HDM to die a slow death. :crying:

I believe if we had only one format then HDM would take off! Too many people are apprehensive about buying any format! What a bummer.

Take Care :hithere:

Bleedgreen71
11-23-2007, 09:50 PM
At a smaller volume sears today I sold one HD-DVD Player and zero blue-ray units. We began the morning with 3 HD-A3's and sold out before 6am (5am open). I don't think that anyone sold a blue-ray other than a PS3.

Another associate(lawn and garden dept.) mentioned that he had read that sony was going to begin releasing future titles in both hd-dvd and blue-ray. anyone heard any rumors of this? Please don't attack me, I know hes an idiot...just following up.

tvine2000
11-23-2007, 10:21 PM
i was in walmart in my area today.
all they had was blu-ray discs on sale.
all titles from 2006
xxx,blackhawk down etc.
no hd dvds on sale.
bestbuy had noting on sales for software.
they did have a stack of bd players for 399.00 [sonybds300].
fye ...noting on sale for software.
seems like the studios will not give any deal on hdm movies this hoilday.i dont get that one. again there not helping there own formats sell players.
maybe next year.

tvine2000
11-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Back to the OP - same people - the day before Black Friday . . day after ST-TOS was released:



Now we can compare BEFORE BF and DURING BF



I am questioning his "ST-TOS Sold Out" claim. IMO - they didn't have any to begin with or they are in the DVD aisle where others have been finding them

yeh me to.
in fact i hit 3 stores nov20,they didnt have one copy of tos in stock.
the stores were
walmart
bestbuy
cc
im sure everyone here has noticed a store like bestbuy doesnt carry every title anyways..just the block busters

tvine2000
11-23-2007, 10:38 PM
At a smaller volume sears today I sold one HD-DVD Player and zero blue-ray units. We began the morning with 3 HD-A3's and sold out before 6am (5am open). I don't think that anyone sold a blue-ray other than a PS3.

Another associate(lawn and garden dept.) mentioned that he had read that sony was going to begin releasing future titles in both hd-dvd and blue-ray. anyone heard any rumors of this? Please don't attack me, I know hes an idiot...just following up.

theres always rumors.
i havent heard that one.all i can say is ask the asso.where he read that.lets us know what he said.
that is a interesting rumor,but i doubt sony would do anything like that unless blu-ray goes bye bye

Dare
11-24-2007, 01:42 AM
They have to reduce the hi-def dvd prices down in order to move them. $35 is rediculous! $20-25 has to be the max.


I couldn't believe how much discs cost at Wal-mart. I just bought a couple of BDs there tonight (off neilsen's radar :D), and they were $25-$35! For a second I thought I was at Best Buy, not Wal-mart. What a disappointment. Also, maybe you can blame Black Friday for this, but their high-def disc display was a shambles.

fmw
11-24-2007, 02:19 AM
DVD will win the format war. Perhaps there will be a successful HD disc format in the future but I don't think it will be these two or any time very soon.

jjufon
11-24-2007, 02:39 AM
Ok, hereís my take on the whole JSP adoption of HDTV; forget about HD DVD and Blu-Ray right now. I have been to several homes in the highland park area of Dallas where folks tend to have quite a few disposable dollars laying around and I gotta tell ya, more than half of the HDTVís Iíve seen are hooked up incorrectly! Using the s-video, or composite, cable boxes setup incorrectly, etc. a young girl I work with was house sitting for a couple that lived next door to her folks; they loved movies and had several hundred DVDís and a descent HDTV. As soon as I turned it on, I knew right away something was up. They had it connected via s-video. I went to work on it using some RCA cable I found in the cabinet below the tv and connected it using the component jacks, set the cable box up and what a differences, but I wasnít done. This thing was so outa tune; colors off, brightness.., well you get the picture.
After their return, they were stunned; they asked my friend to please have me come over and fix the other TVís in the house; which I did and they are now the proud owners of an HD DVD player too.
My point? Most people just un-box and plug it in using the same old connections their old tv was using, and forget about them dialing it in; Iíve never seen such colors in nature. Part of the issue is we like our toys, but we want them cheap, so you no longer get it delivered and get it setup by the store (professional installation). You can but not like it used to be.
They just donít see the need for HDM, because they canít see the differences; how can they when the TVís not connected correctly to see it!!
Anyway, my two cents for the night.

DKwhite
11-24-2007, 03:08 AM
Ok, hereís my take on the whole JSP adoption of HDTV; forget about HD DVD and Blu-Ray right now. I have been to several homes in the highland park area of Dallas where folks tend to have quite a few disposable dollars laying around and I gotta tell ya, more than half of the HDTVís Iíve seen are hooked up incorrectly! Using the s-video, or composite, cable boxes setup incorrectly, etc. a young girl I work with was house sitting for a couple that lived next door to her folks; they loved movies and had several hundred DVDís and a descent HDTV. As soon as I turned it on, I knew right away something was up. They had it connected via s-video. I went to work on it using some RCA cable I found in the cabinet below the tv and connected it using the component jacks, set the cable box up and what a differences, but I wasnít done. This thing was so outa tune; colors off, brightness.., well you get the picture.
After their return, they were stunned; they asked my friend to please have me come over and fix the other TVís in the house; which I did and they are now the proud owners of an HD DVD player too.
My point? Most people just un-box and plug it in using the same old connections their old tv was using, and forget about them dialing it in; Iíve never seen such colors in nature. Part of the issue is we like our toys, but we want them cheap, so you no longer get it delivered and get it setup by the store (professional installation). You can but not like it used to be.
They just donít see the need for HDM, because they canít see the differences; how can they when the TVís not connected correctly to see it!!
Anyway, my two cents for the night.

But isn't that always the case with these types of people though? I mean seriously, these are usually the same types who buy Bose products. hehe.

pearl-drum-man
11-24-2007, 04:40 AM
I know many people with HDTVs, only my brother and I have gone with HD DVD. I don't know anyone with Blu-ray yet. Of the others, many don't know anything about HDM, and those I have discussed it with seem completely un-interested.

My Aunt just bought a 37" Vizio HDTV. She also bought Apacalypto on Blu-ray, assuming it would play on her DVD player. When she found out it would not, she went and bought what she thought was an HD player, but was in fact a $40 up-converter. After finally getting a hold of her and explaining it all to her she completely wrote off Blu-ray due to the $400 price point, but seemed interested in the HD DVD player for less then $200. I'd be surprised if she actually followed through anytime soon though, maybe if the HD DVD players hit that $100 point regularly.

Lastly, I think software for HDM will have to come way down in price, people are spoiled with DVDs in the $10-15 range (with a lot of great titles for $5 now), so I think sub $20 software prices are a must. Even I am not very willing to run out and spend $25-30+ for HD movies, and I am sold on the quality and the concept of HDM. In addition, I think the player update thing is another potential stumbling block for HDM.

pearl-drum-man
11-24-2007, 04:47 AM
Ok, hereís my take on the whole JSP adoption of HDTV; forget about HD DVD and Blu-Ray right now. I have been to several homes in the highland park area of Dallas where folks tend to have quite a few disposable dollars laying around and I gotta tell ya, more than half of the HDTVís Iíve seen are hooked up incorrectly! Using the s-video, or composite, cable boxes setup incorrectly, etc. a young girl I work with was house sitting for a couple that lived next door to her folks; they loved movies and had several hundred DVDís and a descent HDTV. As soon as I turned it on, I knew right away something was up. They had it connected via s-video. I went to work on it using some RCA cable I found in the cabinet below the tv and connected it using the component jacks, set the cable box up and what a differences, but I wasnít done. This thing was so outa tune; colors off, brightness.., well you get the picture.
After their return, they were stunned; they asked my friend to please have me come over and fix the other TVís in the house; which I did and they are now the proud owners of an HD DVD player too.
My point? Most people just un-box and plug it in using the same old connections their old tv was using, and forget about them dialing it in; Iíve never seen such colors in nature. Part of the issue is we like our toys, but we want them cheap, so you no longer get it delivered and get it setup by the store (professional installation). You can but not like it used to be.
They just donít see the need for HDM, because they canít see the differences; how can they when the TVís not connected correctly to see it!!
Anyway, my two cents for the night.

You are so right about this, I've done it several times in recent years as well, the general public just isn't up on things like comonent video cables, and now HDMI. I don't think most people with up-converting players realize they must use HDMI either, they just hook it up like they always have and assume it looks better. And forget about calibrating and setting up the actual HDTV.

myturn
11-24-2007, 06:27 AM
Huh? The $98.87 Wal-Mart HD-A2 sale was held in conjunction with a selection of HD DVD titles on sale for $14.95. There was a big point of sale display in the aisle right by the HD-A2s where I bought my A2. I bought Casino, Blood Diamond, Backdraft, The Last Samurai, and Seabiscuit. There were several other titles on sale as well (I seem to remember Unforgiven being one of the sale titles).

Then you had a lucky walmart since none in this tri-state area had the hd dvd's to go with that sale.
At that time I posted on this board the fact that walmart was lacking in hd dvd's. I have not seen any improvement in that area in the stores yet.
All I am doing is stating the facts. These are areas the industry needs to address if the format is to grow.

Lee Stewart
11-24-2007, 06:31 AM
At a smaller volume sears today I sold one HD-DVD Player and zero blue-ray units. We began the morning with 3 HD-A3's and sold out before 6am (5am open). I don't think that anyone sold a blue-ray other than a PS3.

Another associate(lawn and garden dept.) mentioned that he had read that sony was going to begin releasing future titles in both hd-dvd and blue-ray. anyone heard any rumors of this? Please don't attack me, I know hes an idiot...just following up.

He was confusing Sony with Warner Bros. Their Total HD format is dead - HD DVD on one side - BD on the other. Think of it as an HD Combo.

Lee Stewart
11-24-2007, 06:32 AM
HDM - the Bastard Step Child to DVD:(

myturn
11-24-2007, 06:41 AM
I wish I had your confidence.

You sound a bit discouraged there.
You having doubts about the high def format sticking around?

Bunter
11-24-2007, 06:58 AM
Wow!

I started a thread at AVS with the OP - it lasted 5 minutes - they pulled it.

Thought it was within the new rules - affected both formats the same - bad news for both.

:mad:

The Police State rules!:banghead:

Bunter
11-24-2007, 07:02 AM
Good point. Lasar discs and players were too expensive anyway to go mainstream. VHS was only mainstream after several years and initially only as rentals (heck, even the players were for rent). DVD never took off for three years and here we are only 1 1/2 into the format and people think HDM is going to fail because it isn't beating DVD yet. As it stands now, HDM accounts for about 5% of optical movie sales by dollar volume, but around 2% or so by units sold. HDM is simply constrained by HDTV adoption and that will happen and HD DVD has already proven that price won't be an issue for their format in the future.

In today's ads for Target (Saturday) there are $2 and $3 SD DVDs for sale; $19.95 and $27.95 HD DVDs!:eek:

It will be awhile, but HD DVD will slowly gather momentum--especially if Toshiba continues to pump out those players at great prices and WB pulls its head out of its ass and ends this costly war.

Bunter
11-24-2007, 07:04 AM
I don't know. For most people HD has a 'Tivo' effect. Once you have it there's no going back. It's only a matter of meeting their price point to get them in, and as the poster says, $99 is the 'sweet spot'. HD DVD should hit it with regularity by next fall. But as he also observed, another big stumbling block is awareness. Most people don't even know about the format war to begin with!

Yepper. Good points, fella!:bowdown:

Bunter
11-24-2007, 07:06 AM
Back to the OP - same people - the day before Black Friday . . day after ST-TOS was released:



Now we can compare BEFORE BF and DURING BF



I am questioning his "ST-TOS Sold Out" claim. IMO - they didn't have any to begin with or they are in the DVD aisle where others have been finding them

Thanks for posting this stuff, Lee.:yippee:

Bunter
11-24-2007, 07:10 AM
Then you had a lucky walmart since none in this tri-state area had the hd dvd's to go with that sale.
At that time I posted on this board the fact that walmart was lacking in hd dvd's. I have not seen any improvement in that area in the stores yet.
All I am doing is stating the facts. These are areas the industry needs to address if the format is to grow.

Mine had them when I bought the A2. Only bought one, though, as I already had all of those I wanted from the selection.

Lee Stewart
11-24-2007, 07:35 AM
You sound a bit discouraged there.
You having doubts about the high def format sticking around?

Yes I do. Not so much "sticking around" but more of the great fear that HDM will be LD Part 2 - a niche format(s) never to gain mass adoption - which means limited title releases - for catalog titles.

Sure - all the new movies will be on HDM - if that is your taste - it isn't mine.

With the failure of HDM double dipping - many of the older titles may never make it to HD Disc.

I can go to the movies and see Iron Man or Batman - much better presentation than at Lee's house. But I can't go to the movies and see The Professionals or Lawrence of Arabia or Mckenna's Gold (yes I know the first two are BD onlys).

Cripes! The new Blade Runner Final Cut is NOT coming to Florida in the theater:banghead:

Selection is the key to success - and niche formats do not offer good or deep selection - IMO.

myturn
11-24-2007, 08:15 AM
With the failure of HDM double dipping - many of the older titles may never make it to HD Disc.

I can go to the movies and see Iron Man or Batman - much better presentation than at Lee's house. But I can't go to the movies and see The Professionals or Lawrence of Arabia or Mckenna's Gold (yes I know the first two are BD onlys).

Selection is the key to success - and niche formats do not offer good or deep selection - IMO.

I agree. In fact I've been writing a post, trying to get it well thought out without the fanfare before I put it up that says alot of what your thinking.

PFC5
11-24-2007, 10:19 AM
I noticed when walmart ran their first $99.00 sale that there were no hd dvd's on the shelves. This is not the way to sell a dvd format. I was also disappointed to see no hd or blu-ray dvd sales from the bm stores on bf, again a major blunder from the industry.

Toshiba & Sony take too long to get out the free dvd's and the sales you do find are usually for older titles or titles you don't want.
Those are just a few observations of the blunders that this industry is not taken seriously.

Recently there was a post from a Disney rep saying they expect a "churn" from the early adapters because the format they chose will render all the early players useless for the new features they are planning on bringing out. Well $500.00 is not suposed to be a "churn" item!
Most people will not tolerate this for too long before they turn on the entire high def dvd format and opt to continue with the standard dvd's instead.

Cue Lee's Iceberg pic in 3....2....1..... ;)

Lee Stewart
11-24-2007, 11:21 AM
Cue Lee's Iceberg pic in 3....2....1..... ;)

:D

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/iceberg.jpg

crazyal
11-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Everyone I know was really disappointed that after the early BF sale at Wallyworld and BB the day before that there wasn't a second round to the sale. Clearly the "save $100 if you buy both" shows that if the players are between $100 to $150 people will buy them.

I aslo think most stores have written off most of the catalog titles, they just don't sell well yet so they leave them for the on-line market. However they should be keeping the shelves full of anything that has been released in the last year (day and date stuff).

I have to ask because I know if I went to a BF sale my mission would be 'get in the store, get exactly what I saw advertised, pay, and get out'. How many here would go strolling around the store to pick up things like movies, cables, etc.? I would go back in a few days (unless there was a really good sale ending that day) to get things like that. But I also hate crowds and standing in lines.

PFC5
11-24-2007, 12:06 PM
Everyone I know was really disappointed that after the early BF sale at Wallyworld and BB the day before that there wasn't a second round to the sale. Clearly the "save $100 if you buy both" shows that if the players are between $100 to $150 people will buy them.

I aslo think most stores have written off most of the catalog titles, they just don't sell well yet so they leave them for the on-line market. However they should be keeping the shelves full of anything that has been released in the last year (day and date stuff).

I have to ask because I know if I went to a BF sale my mission would be 'get in the store, get exactly what I saw advertised, pay, and get out'. How many here would go strolling around the store to pick up things like movies, cables, etc.? I would go back in a few days (unless there was a really good sale ending that day) to get things like that. But I also hate crowds and standing in lines.

Very good points!

Lee Stewart
11-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Very good points!

They were good points . . . but bad for HDM.

If the B&M CER's are going to leave the catalog tiles to Amazon and the online E-tailers - then they are only one step away from not carrying HDM altogether.

I like Jap. Anime - so I always cruise my BB and CC for titles. And I swear they are the same week after week, month after month. Yet they have a good selection.

So what about HDM? AT LEAST use the data you are paying Nielsen for and stock popular titles.

Or - take the bull by the horns - make a stand - and carry the entire catalog for both formats and set yourself up as THE place to buy HDM movies. We already know B&M's sell more than onlines - that article told us.

Another favorite quote of mine . . .

"Do or Do not . . . there is no try."

Cowboy X
11-24-2007, 07:46 PM
"Do or Do not . . . there is no try."

Yes..........much to learn they still have.