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Adult industry picks HD-DVD

ah802
01-11-2007, 07:57 PM
Digital Playground, who were committed to Blu-ray last year, are now producing HD-DVD titles instead. No Blu-ray disk manufacturer would make their disks because Sony doesn't want prn on Blu-ray (just as with Betamax). As reported by tgdaily, this industry overwhelmingly favors HD-DVD because it's much cheaper and easier to produce.

http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/11/213258.shtml

Guess that settles what Sony is up to.... deja-vu same arguments and choices with the VHS/Beta format wars.

BobY
01-11-2007, 08:28 PM
Has Sony looked at some of the films that come out of their studios?

GLOW
01-11-2007, 08:28 PM
Since when is Digital Playground considered the "Adult industry"? I guess Vivid doesn't count?

Funny side note: Digital Playground thinks 500,000 HD DVD players have been sold to date. Unfortunately, the actual number is 175,000. Rude awakening in 5... 4... 3...

GLOW
01-11-2007, 08:30 PM
Has Sony looked at some of the films that come out of their studios?

Come on, people! Sony does not dictate what can or can't be released on BD. This whole Digital Playground thing has been blown completely out of proportion.

I WUV HD
01-11-2007, 08:36 PM
Since when is Digital Playground considered the "Adult industry"? I guess Vivid doesn't count?

Funny side note: Digital Playground thinks 500,000 HD DVD players have been sold to date. Unfortunately, the actual number is 175,000. Rude awakening in 5... 4... 3...
Sony refuses to press the discs. I doubt DP care that much if there are fewer than 500,000 players out currently, based on Sony's prudish stance. Plus, just because the inaccurate numbers are still on their site, doesn't mean the execs don't know the real numbers.

While it may not have a huge effect (thanks to readily available porn online,) it's still good news for HD DVD.

As for Vivid, it remains to be seen if they'll release any titles on BD. DP was set to publish on BD and we see how that turned out. All I'm saying is, don't count your porn flicks before they're released.

bruceames
01-11-2007, 08:37 PM
Come on, people! Sony does not dictate what can or can't be released on BD. This whole Digital Playground thing has been blown completely out of proportion.

I'm sure you're right, Glow. It will be an individual choice for each studio, but as I said in the other thread, the smaller ones are definitely leaning towards HD DVDs because they don't need to buy new replication equipment.

Has Vivid been heard from lately on their HD plans?

I WUV HD
01-11-2007, 08:37 PM
Come on, people! Sony does not dictate what can or can't be released on BD. This whole Digital Playground thing has been blown completely out of proportion.
They're one of the few companies producing BDs right now, and they're the only ones putting out BD-50s (regardless of studio,) from what I've read.

Don't forget, porn was forbidden on Beta, back in the day. It's not like they haven't set a precedent.

bruceames
01-11-2007, 08:43 PM
I'll take that back, Glow. According to this (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/Digital_Playground/Adult/Disc_Announcements/1080p_Porn_Blu-ray_Says_No_Thanks/433)source, Sony is definitely NOT encouraging porn studios to climb aboard. :eek:

Edit: Here's another source

http://www.sgknox.com/2007/01/11/no-porn-on-blu-ray/

Do BD fans really want to have Sony dictating content on their beloved format?

ah802
01-11-2007, 08:45 PM
http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/ces2007_hddvd_blu_ray/

Pink Visual heavily complained about the fact that Blu-ray discs cannot be replicated and a range of other studios, who did not want to be mentioned by name indicated that the cost of going with Blu-ray cancels the technology as a possible HD solution for this industry. "Only bigger studios can afford Blu-ray, and even then it's not economical," we were told.

It would seem that either Blu-ray has to do some catching up very quickly. But we got the strange feeling that HD DVD has won the format war already, at least in the porn industry.

GLOW
01-11-2007, 08:57 PM
I'll take that back, Glow. According to this (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/Digital_Playground/Adult/Disc_Announcements/1080p_Porn_Blu-ray_Says_No_Thanks/433)source, Sony is definitely NOT encouraging porn studios to climb aboard. :eek:

All this "Sony is anti-porn" hoopla is coming from the same single interview with this smut peddler "Joone". Who knows how accurate this guy's claims are? Would you trust a smut peddler to babysit your kids? NO. Would you trust a smut peddler to tell the 100% truth? Doubtful. This guy could just be pissed off that Sony couldn't fit him into their 2007 BD50 production line schedule and is making stuff up out of spite.

GLOW
01-11-2007, 09:00 PM
http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/ces2007_hddvd_blu_ray/

Pink Visual heavily complained about the fact that Blu-ray discs cannot be replicated and a range of other studios, who did not want to be mentioned by name indicated that the cost of going with Blu-ray cancels the technology as a possible HD solution for this industry. "Only bigger studios can afford Blu-ray, and even then it's not economical," we were told.

It would seem that either Blu-ray has to do some catching up very quickly. But we got the strange feeling that HD DVD has won the format war already, at least in the porn industry.

Obviously, "Pink Visual" isn't aware of what Erick Hansen is doing: http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/1/emw495870.htm

Anyone can release Blu-ray discs! :D

bruceames
01-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Could be this Joone character is making all this up just to pull everybody's chain, but why the sudden change of heart from DP? Also, do you think that Sony will own up to not letting certain content be replicated on BD? They've prohibited porn in the past, why do you think they've changed?

loganhunter200
01-11-2007, 09:15 PM
All this "Sony is anti-porn" hoopla is coming from the same single interview with this smut peddler "Joone". Who knows how accurate this guy's claims are? Would you trust a smut peddler to babysit your kids? NO. Would you trust a smut peddler to tell the 100% truth? Doubtful. This guy could just be pissed off that Sony couldn't fit him into their 2007 BD50 production line schedule and is making stuff up out of spite.

GLOW, why can't you just be happy that DP has chosen to make their movies in HD DVD? Instead, you start calling people names like "smut peddler" It's okay. HD DVD won one battle. There are plenty more. I'm pretty sure you'll be jumping around if DP was releasing their movies in Blu-ray. Name calling just lowers your credibility.

GLOW
01-11-2007, 09:21 PM
Could be this Joone character is making all this up just to pull everybody's chain, but why the sudden change of heart from DP? Also, do you think that Sony will own up to not letting certain content be replicated on BD? They've prohibited porn in the past, why do you think they've changed?

If they are prohibiting porn from being replicated on BD, then why are there porn BD's available in Japan?

http://www.stor-age.com/dongtai/xinpin/htm2006/06112811RWVQ.asp WARNING! NSFW!

Whatever their stance is on porn, I hope someone from Sony makes an informal announcement about this issue soon to clear everything up. The last thing Blu-ray needs right now is this Joone character spreading lies that end up snowballing around the internet.

bruceames
01-11-2007, 09:27 PM
Yeah, it would look really bad if Sony is making those kind of decisions. Very controlling to say the least. I guess we'll find out soon enough as I'm sure this story will definitely snowball into a really big deal until Sony says something.

GLOW
01-11-2007, 09:27 PM
GLOW, why can't you just be happy that DP has chosen to make their movies in HD DVD? Instead, you start calling people names like "smut peddler" It's okay. HD DVD won one battle. There are plenty more. I'm pretty sure you'll be jumping around if DP was releasing their movies in Blu-ray. Name calling just lowers your credibility.

What's wrong with "smut peddler"? Should I have referred to him as a "fine purveyor of adult-oriented content"? :) Please... these guys know they are smut peddlers and I don't think they'd be offended by someone calling them as such. I could review a porn movie and call it "a masterpiece" and talk about all the genius artistic vision that went into it, but in the end it's just people f**king. I call 'em like I see 'em.

loganhunter200
01-11-2007, 09:55 PM
What's wrong with "smut peddler"? Should I have referred to him as a "fine purveyor of adult-oriented content"? :) Please... these guys know they are smut peddlers and I don't think they'd be offended by someone calling them as such. I could review a porn movie and call it "a masterpiece" and talk about all the genius artistic vision that went into it, but in the end it's just people f**king. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Yup, I'm pretty sure you are good judge of people's character. Porn is just another form of entertainment. Call them whatever you like but sinking to the level of name calling and cursing doesn't make you right.

ja2935
01-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Well, it took Beta about five years or so to die out - nowadays technology cycle times are much shorter - the writing is on the wall for BD.

Here's a thought though. In 1982 I bought a Toshiba Betamax VCR; now I have a Sony VHS VCR! Maybe someday I'll be able to get a Sony HD DVD player - no, probably not, as Sony will be out of business by then...

I WUV HD
01-12-2007, 12:30 AM
Sony insider Paidgeek had this to say on AVS:
Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.
Source. (http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9436316&&#post9436316)

Sony's turning away a lot of money...

treker
01-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Does this mean no more quality family/action/sifi movies OMG!

GLOW
01-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Sony insider Paidgeek had this to say on AVS:

Source. (http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9436316&&#post9436316)

Sony's turning away a lot of money...

Unless only Sony can currently replicate BD50's (and the studios NEED BD50's), there's no reason they can't go through a different replicator like the indie one posted above.

GLOW
01-12-2007, 09:58 AM
Yup, I'm pretty sure you are good judge of people's character. Porn is just another form of entertainment. Call them whatever you like but sinking to the level of name calling and cursing doesn't make you right.

OK, next time I'm talking about companies that exploit young girls and film sex for money, I'll try to use better language. :rolleyes:

I WUV HD
01-12-2007, 10:04 AM
Unless only Sony can currently replicate BD50's (and the studios NEED BD50's), there's no reason they can't go through a different replicator like the indie one posted above.
Well, the whole quote from the Sony guy was :
Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.

There aren't that many places that can even replicate BDs in the first place. If paidgeek is right, there might not be any of them willing to go against Daddy (Sony) and put out the porn discs. I guess we'll see what happens in the future, won't we?

GLOW
01-12-2007, 10:11 AM
Well, the whole quote from the Sony guy was :
Sony replication will not handle pornographic product and I think many of other major replicators have similar policies. Nothing more than that.

There aren't that many places that can even replicate BDs in the first place. If paidgeek is right, there might not be any of them willing to go against Daddy (Sony) and put out the porn discs. I guess we'll see what happens in the future, won't we?

This is where a big problem with Blu-ray comes in. Blu-ray replication is more expensive and plants need completely new gear to do it while HD DVD can be replicated by the same plants as DVD with some alteration of their equipment. Most major HD DVD replicators won't do porn either, but you guys have the advantage of being able to use many more independent replicators than us.

I WUV HD
01-12-2007, 10:31 AM
This is where a big problem with Blu-ray comes in. Blu-ray replication is more expensive and plants need completely new gear to do it while HD DVD can be replicated by the same plants as DVD with some alteration of their equipment. Most major HD DVD replicators won't do porn either, but you guys have the advantage of being able to use many more independent replicators than us.
I don't know about the whole "most major HD DVD replicators won't do porn either" part, but other than that I agree. Indeed, the low startup cost has been quoted in a few articles as being one of the determining factors. You may be right, though. There may be only a handful of distrbutors willing to replicate the porn discs.

I read in another thread that Club Jenna is going HD DVD exclusive, as well. If we get Vivid and Wicked, we'll have a big chunk of the big companies locked down. Should be interesting.

ja2935
01-12-2007, 10:46 AM
OK, next time I'm talking about companies that exploit young girls and film sex for money, I'll try to use better language. :rolleyes:

Undoubtedly some do get exploited but most do it by choice for the money, just like most of us work for the money!

GLOW
01-12-2007, 10:51 AM
I don't know about the whole "most major HD DVD replicators won't do porn either" part, but other than that I agree.

I'm just going by what Amir said a few months ago. It will be difficult for porn to get replicated for either format (paraprased, not interested in searching for the exact quote).

bruceames
01-12-2007, 07:33 PM
Wicked Pictures is the third porn studio to go HD DVD (besides ClubJenna and Digital Playground), and it is apparent that they will all be going there. Just waiting to hear from Vivid.

I really don't know how this will affect our chances, but I think it will help us as much as if we had another major exclusive studio (that is, if they all stay exclusively HD DVD). The important thing is that it gives HD DVD new life, regardless of the source, and we'll take it (especially after Blu-ray's victory guarantee at CES). This ensures that BD, via the PS3 and their studio exclusives, will NOT be able to snuff us out in time for our format to really take root in the form of cheaper players down the road. Sure, BD will probably get their porn later, but not after HD DVD reaps an enormous boost from it.

Another point that Glow mentioned is that it highlights a drawback on the BD format: the fact that their discs are not so easily replicated. The smaller studios will be naturally drawn to HD DVD because of this.

But having said the above, I would much rather be looking forward to BD's enviable release lineup than what we have. It should definitely be an interesting year!

http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=hardware&articleId=9007911&taxonomyId=12

I WUV HD
01-12-2007, 07:46 PM
The adult industry is a multi-billion dollar/year industry. While their exclusive support won't guarantee a victory in the format war, it should bring a nice little boost in sales. There are a loooooooooot of people who like porn.

EnfrcrOne
01-12-2007, 09:53 PM
Watching Glow scramble to try to cover Blu-Ray's ass is amusing. Both formats are obviously around for a while, why do you care so much as to try to tear down an obvious pro for HD by calling someone who has a lot more insight into this industry than you do a liar?

bruceames
01-12-2007, 10:03 PM
I read in another post that Vivid plans to release HD DVD titles on the same day(s) as BD. It remains to be seen, however, if the BD discs will show up. I guess we'll see...

oblioman
01-14-2007, 02:23 AM
Watching Glow scramble to try to cover Blu-Ray's ass is amusing. Both formats are obviously around for a while, why do you care so much as to try to tear down an obvious pro for HD by calling someone who has a lot more insight into this industry than you do a liar?

My 2 cents - First off GLOW has been a member of this forum for some time and has added valuable information to numerous subjects. IMYO Glow does have some insight into the industry.

Secondly - Yes it will take replicators a significant amount of capitol to re-tool to BD vs the minor changes to tool up for HD-DVD (I was in the replication business and we started this discussion in 2004).

Third - The porn industry is making it's dollar via the internet - which was not readily available during the VHS -BETA skirmish. The porn industry will distribute their smut by whatever means available. The only reason they can go with HD-DVD today is that some replicator in China tooled up for HD-DVD and is willing to make a buck by stamping out "Homers Holes" or whatever. But it will not be a deciding factor.

Fourth - Sony does not control the content that is stamped in BD format. Any replicator can tool up and stamp what their client wants replicated as long as they have artist,ect. release forms.

Fifth (and last) - The winner of this skirmish will be the camp that comes to market with a decent sub-$200 player and content that can be played on it. But, in this day and age, they must also meet the public demands that they be able to back up a disc on their computer and also have a disc readily available to do such. Sony has accomplished 2 of the above. Sony could/can win this skirmish if they can reduce the price on their players.

strawberry
01-14-2007, 10:52 AM
Perhaps I'm exposing myself, as I'm not as up-to-date on the trends of porn disc sales as I might be some other things- but are porn disc sales really going to be all that important this go around? I know they were instrumental in the acceptance of VHS and DVD early on, but something very major has changed since the early 80's and the late 90's - the widespread adoption of the internet. Seems to me that the format of choice for porn, by a landslide margin, is the very machines we're typing to each other on.

Is there really reason to believe that people are going to want to pay next-gen prices for poorly produced HD porn when they can get pretty much whatever they want for free online, and have an easier time hiding it from their girlfriends/wives/kids/parents/etc., etc.?

edit: oh, suppose I could have just read oblioman's post right above me and saved myself the trouble typing. Sorry- this is what happens when I post right after I wake up- I miss stuff...

bruceames
01-14-2007, 11:10 AM
Strawberry, always nice to read your posts, so I'm glad you didn't read oblioman's first to save us the trouble of reading yours. :)

The impact of porn of course remains to be seen, and naturally HD DVD supporters will want to think it will have more punch, and BD supporters, less. That aside, there is data showing that porn dvd sales/rental revenue last year was approximately 15% off all dvd revenue. Approximate would be an understatement as it's very difficult to count porn sales due to the nature of the industry. But assuming that it's ballpark accurate, then 15% would have the weight of a decent sized studio. Back in the Beta/VHS days I bet porn was over 40% of rentals.

If porn is going to be (nearly) all HD DVD exclusive for a while, then I guess HD porn revenue from disc won't be counted in DVDwars or anywhere else probably (maybe I'm wrong). So to see the effect of porn on HD DVD, we'll have to look at player sales in particular. Of course, those who buy a player just to watch HD porn on their 80" display will undoubtedly be buying HD DVD movies, too.

Should be interesting to watch the HD DVD player sales now...

crazyal
01-14-2007, 11:31 AM
I don't think I would hold my breath waiting for BD players to drop down below $200 any time soon. To get that low the profit margin would be almost nothing. I figure going below $300 is the point.

oblioman I agree with you about GLOW. It's nice to hear the BD side and it does add lots of entertainment value too. This forum does have more HD fans (in my opinion) and information, not just the specs, on HD is easier to come by. Personally I'm leaning towards thw XA2 or the A20 and a BD player that has yet to be anounced as a future addition. Normally I wouldn't wait as the few hundred I would say is easily justified but since I just finished building 3/4 of a house and now that I live here I really should finish it before building the "total room", the home theater room.

In a way the porn industry will make a difference (at least to me) since one thing I'm looking for is a good upscalling player. Porn in Highdef is going to be very hit or miss, who wants to see how half the girls really look. Since there's tons of downloads on the internet for free that can be burnt to SD DVD again SD playing will be an issue. If HiDef porn does catch on then the internet isn't going to be much help since piracy will be out of the picture for a little while and even if a movie is uploaded to the net it will have to be compressed to SD quallity so porn could play a role.

bruceames
01-14-2007, 11:39 AM
HD porn is something new and it will definitely be "looked into" by aficionados. Think about it, if you're going to watch porn, would you rather watch it on your moniter or lying down in front of a huge display? HD porn will have more more appeal to those with large displays because the girls will appear practically life-like in size and the SD quality won't distract from that perception. A huge chunk of the porn base are affluent and the vast majority of them will definitely go out and buy an HD DVD player. Why would they care about BD? They want the best PQ porn available, plain and simple. HD DVD will provide that now.

I WUV HD
01-14-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm proud to say I'll own at least a couple of adult HD DVDs. Once they drop their prices a little ($50/title's a little steep) I'm sure I'll get more.

Porn=awesome
HD Porn=awesomer


:D

PFC5
01-14-2007, 01:12 PM
I don't think I would hold my breath waiting for BD players to drop down below $200 any time soon. To get that low the profit margin would be almost nothing. I figure going below $300 is the point.

oblioman I agree with you about GLOW. It's nice to hear the BD side and it does add lots of entertainment value too. This forum does have more HD fans (in my opinion) and information, not just the specs, on HD is easier to come by. Personally I'm leaning towards thw XA2 or the A20 and a BD player that has yet to be anounced as a future addition. Normally I wouldn't wait as the few hundred I would say is easily justified but since I just finished building 3/4 of a house and now that I live here I really should finish it before building the "total room", the home theater room.

In a way the porn industry will make a difference (at least to me) since one thing I'm looking for is a good upscalling player. Porn in Highdef is going to be very hit or miss, who wants to see how half the girls really look. Since there's tons of downloads on the internet for free that can be burnt to SD DVD again SD playing will be an issue. If HiDef porn does catch on then the internet isn't going to be much help since piracy will be out of the picture for a little while and even if a movie is uploaded to the net it will have to be compressed to SD quallity so porn could play a role.

First, let me say that I agree that Glow is a valuable contributor to this forum because he helps give the site balance. I also agree that this site is more Pro HD-DVD than it is BD. It was not always this way as Strawberry will attest to. I would say before either product released that at least 70% (probably more) favored BD. What changed things was the execution of both formats at their respective launch.

I think you made an EXCELLENT point about how a lot of the new porn might "dry up" on the internet IF/when the porn studios go to just HD formats that are more secure. It will be much harder to capture the HD data off the discs to even post it on the internet.

scamp
01-14-2007, 01:26 PM
Some say the glass is half full.

Others say the glass is half empty.

I think the glass is to big.

You all can argue all damn day the benefits of blu vs HD but I don't really care a rats posterior which one is "better", has "more movies" or has "better transfers" it's all a load of hooey. I want to be able to watch movies. Not just this movie or that movie. Just movies. Don't buy into this industry serving "format war".

Go dual or go home. Oh and I don't mean a "dual" machine that costs as much or more than a stand alone blu and HD player combined either LG.

I WUV HD
01-14-2007, 01:32 PM
I would say before either product released that at least 70% (probably more) favored BD. What changed things was the execution of both formats at their respective launch.
Hell, I was convinced Blu-Ray was the way to go right up until the formats launched. The proof, as they say, was in the pudding.

First came glowing review after glowing review. Then came firmware updates that fixed the inital bugs. Then BD launched, not with a roar but with a dull thud. Substandard encodes made from substandard transfers were released to an audience that had seen what HD on optical media could look like. I got to see first-hand how crappy some of those discs looked and it changed my mind toot-sweet.

BD will have to make a lot of changes if they expect me to ever own a player or software.

bruceames
01-14-2007, 01:51 PM
Some say the glass is half full.

Others say the glass is half empty.

I think the glass is to big.

You all can argue all damn day the benefits of blu vs HD but I don't really care a rats posterior which one is "better", has "more movies" or has "better transfers" it's all a load of hooey. I want to be able to watch movies. Not just this movie or that movie. Just movies. Don't buy into this industry serving "format war".

Go dual or go home. Oh and I don't mean a "dual" machine that costs as much or more than a stand alone blu and HD player combined either LG.


What do you mean by "go dual or go home", right after saying "don't buy into this industry serving 'format war'"?

I want to watch movies, too, but I'm not going to buy into a format which I don't believe in. I don't need Fox, Disney nor Sony exclusive movies in HD right now. I have plenty to see just from WB, Universal and Paramount and I really don't even have the time to watch all of them anyway. Just don't feel that urgency like some to watch every HD movie that comes out and can wait as long as it takes for BD exclusive movies to be released on HD DVD. I made my choice last April and I'm going to see it through.

rockaway1836
01-14-2007, 08:04 PM
Vivid is still going both ways.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/debbie011207.htm

I WUV HD
01-14-2007, 08:36 PM
Vivid is still going both ways.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/debbie011207.htm
You said going both ways...

GLOW
01-14-2007, 09:40 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet: http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/fv.htm??g=dcb882f9-6fb3-44ff-876e-66db6af4ae7e&f=06/64&fg=copy

I want to strangle the reporter giving the interview. "Pick one!!!"

Damn lady, shut up. :rolleyes:

wvradicalman
01-14-2007, 09:50 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet: http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/fv.htm??g=dcb882f9-6fb3-44ff-876e-66db6af4ae7e&f=06/64&fg=copy

I want to strangle the reporter giving the interview. "Pick one!!!"

Damn lady, shut up. :rolleyes:

There's a big error in that interview in the crawl at the bottom of the screen...Universal is lumped with Paramount, Warner, and Vivid as producing both HD DVD and BR!