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High Point NC - apartment

amos1001
05-12-2006, 01:03 AM
hi

i'm about to move into an apartment in high point, nc. my apartment is on the 3rd floor, and windows face N - NNE

i'm unable to put an antenna outside. in other locations i've had poor results with indoor antennas, and suspect that metal frame construction in apartments is partly to blame.

antennaweb shows my DT choices are 29, 33, 19 and 43 at 9.6 miles, 141 degrees, and 51 at 8.8 miles 145 degrees. there is also 35, 12 miles at 158 degrees, and 31, 37 miles at 327 degrees. although i'd like to get that one (NBC) i don't have much hope for 37 miles away. but you never know...

i am considering putting a bowtie antenna inside a window, between the glass and the venitian blind, and securing it by using tape. i'm thinking that i also may have to remove the exterior screen on that window so that doesn't block the signal.

the antenna i'm thinking is the 4bay channel master 4221.

since i have no windows facing SE, i'm concerned that i may be doing this the wrong way. but since i'm so close, less than 10 miles from the rural hall, nc antenna site, i'm wondering if those signals will be plenty strong to be picked up.

about the window screen.. if i'm unable to remove it (apartments have rules!) would the window still be a good idea?

the main reason i'm leaning toward the 4221 is that it would fit (i think) behind the venitian blind, in the window. ... i don't think that i could fit the 4228 in the window frame, or i might consider that one.

are these bowtie antennas going to be too directional for what i'm doing? do you think this will work? do you have other suggestions?

yes, i know that tape isn't a great way to mount an antenna. but the "flat" design of that antenna makes it possible to do it that way... and my options are limited in an apartment.

thanks a lot!
amos

amos1001
05-14-2006, 11:38 AM
bump. c'mon somebody help me with thiis. did i not give enough information? or is the quesition that dumb?

Diogenes
05-14-2006, 03:30 PM
amos1001, the real problem is that inside installs are very problematic, because of multipath and attenuation due to walls, pipes, etc. Your windows face in the wrong direction, so the antenna will look into your apartment, rather than out the windows. I would try a very simple UHF loop antenna first. Then I might try the 4221 you are suggesting if the cheap indoor showed any promise. The antenna is definately not too directional (except for those 37 mile away stations)

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html

amos1001
05-14-2006, 04:23 PM
thanks, i have a couple of indoor antennas i can try. i move in june 1, so i won't know anything until then.

i'm not sure exactly what i was hoping for. maybe that there would be enough signal outside the window, albeit in the wrong direction, that the channel master could pull it in.

i never considered that it would look inside the apartment, i thought it was more directional than that.

thanks for your help.

Rick0725
05-14-2006, 07:13 PM
try a silver sensor.

I was pulling in signal of 88-94 at 20 miles away here inside today on my 6 stations on my lg.

the next size up would be an antennas direct db 2....think I would favor this over the cm4221 for inside.

add a quality preamp for the more distant stations. winegard Hdp-269comes to mind over the cm7777.

amos1001
05-14-2006, 07:25 PM
i was already thinking about the silver sensor, since so many here like it. anybody know where i can buy one in person instead of via the 'net? i'm in atlanta now, greensboro nc area in 2 weeks.

i hope it works!

why the db2 over the 4221?

-amos

Rick0725
05-14-2006, 07:36 PM
db2 is smaller....more manageable for inside...I would think....but that is your choice.

indoor antennas...It can be like trying on clothes till you find something that fits...so make sure you can return if not satisfied.

Spent several months in greensboro a few years ago as a consultant...loved it there

amos1001
05-15-2006, 10:48 AM
Thanks Rick,

By the way, my High Point, NC zip code is 27260.

Rick0725
05-15-2006, 12:59 PM
I would try the silver sensor first to get an idea how indoor antennas would work for you and then go from there. ..holding off on other decisions till then.

Looking at your zip...a majority of the stations are red with a few purple...so you will not know how successful you will be till you actually try.

The silversensor is rather diectional so keep that in mind when experimenting. You may need to find a sweet spot in the room so be flexible with the idea to using a longer coax than the one supplied with the antenna.

amos1001
05-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Looking at your zip...a majority of the stations are red with a few purple...

When you put in my actual new address, 3504 Broadstone Village Dr, High Point NC 27260 you get a whole different color breakdown. I must be in the area of the zip code closer to the Rural Hall antenna site. (it's an apartment community i'm moving into; that's not my actual address)

3 are yellow, 2 green, fox wghp is red (lower power, i think) and of course nbc wxii is blue...

looking at this new data... any ideas?

-amos

Rick0725
05-15-2006, 05:24 PM
still would like you to try the silver sensor...it is a good performer and something that can be purchased locally and returned if not satisfied.

The stations blue and higher and maybe red may be issues , but you will not know till you try the antenna indoors.

I would not pursue other antennas till you find out how the silver sensor performs for you. It will be a good indication how to procede, possibly avoid antennas that may not work, and help make the proper antenna suggestions moving forward.

Diogenes
05-15-2006, 05:37 PM
still would like you to try the silver sensor...it is a good performer and something that can be purchased locally and returned if not satisfied.

The stations blue and higher and maybe red may be issues , but you will not know till you try the antenna indoors.

I would not pursue other antennas till you find out how the silver sensor performs for you. It will be a good indication how to procede, possibly avoid antennas that may not work, and help make the proper antenna suggestions moving forward.

AMOS1001, Agree with Rick0725, and I tell you what I am going to do, I am in need of another Silver Sensor. So I am about to make you the deal of a lifetime.
Buy one, order it off the net if you can't find it locally. If it doesn't work I will buy it from you at the going price on amazon ($20) and I will pay your cost of shipping it to me.

Amazon link

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006FXR9/102-9197143-0870530?v=glance&n=172282

amos1001
05-15-2006, 05:51 PM
nice! thanks!

and thanks for all your help, guys!


honestly, $20 isn't a lot of money to worry about, but it's very nice of you to offer. if i'm like the rest of you, nothing's gonna get my silver sensor outta my hands once i get it!

if i have to put up a db2 or cm4221, i was thinking of using a rooftop tripod just sitting on the floor, with a short mast... and trying to hide that behind some kind of room divider. but of course i'm going to try the silver sensor first, based on all of your recommendations... and what i read about it being used by the fcc during hd tests.

now about the amp (if needed)... i have a bi-directional industrial strength amp that the cable co put in when i was having broadband trouble. it's has 13db gain. of course they're amping the cable signal, not OTA...but i'm wondering if it's close enough. i don't know the freqs this amp works on. i'm thinking of trying that if i need an amp before buying a winegard or cm. any thoughts?

-amos

Diogenes
05-15-2006, 09:18 PM
The only thing about an amp is that it only amplifies a signal that is already there. They work nice if you need to split a signal, or a preamp will overcome losses due to long cable runs from antenna to TV. But if you take a Silver Sensor and 4 feet of cable run to your TV, then there are really no losses to overcome and an amp won't do much good. PS did the cable amp have a freq range on it, or a model number?

amos1001
05-15-2006, 10:06 PM
yes, i see it now.

http://www.electroline.com/en/products/drop_amplifiers/eda/specifications.html

it's the #2100

amos1001
06-03-2006, 10:37 PM
Hey guys, here's an update on my High Point, NC apartment.

Ok, I moved in June 2. I haven't bought any antenna yet, I wanted to try the cheap (wal-mart/rca) indoor antenna that i already had.

Friday Night was filled with thunderstorms in the Carolinas. I suspect that what happened was due to some tropospheric ducting, or whatever it's called.

With just the cheap antenna (and using the amp I mentioned in a previous post) I was able to get the following stations:

2.1 - WFMY - Greensboro
3.1 - WBTV - Charlotte
7.1 - WDBJ - Roanoke (plus 7.2 called 7too)
10.1 - WSLS - Roanoke
12.1 - WSJS - Winston-Salem
27.1 - WFXR - Roanoke (plus 27.2 WBVA)
61.1 - WLXI - Greensboro

However, absent were WUPN 48.1 Greensboro, WXLV 45.1 Greensboro, WTWB 20.1 Lexington, WUNL 26.1 Winston-Salem, and WGHP 8.1 High Point.

Tonight, with normal weather, I'm barely getting 2.1 and 12.1. 3.1 Charlotte did pop in a couple of times, but not good enough to watch.

I know it's a pipe dream, but I'm thinking of getting that Channel Master 4221 to see if I can pull in Charlotte and Roanoke on "normal" nights. I haven't ordered the Silver Sensor yet.

Amos

amos1001
06-07-2006, 10:23 AM
Ok, I got the CM 4221 and put it on a tripod at a window. Facing out the window (North) I get:

18 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 WDBJ Roanoke
30 10-1, 10-2 WSLS Roanoke
31 12-1, 12-2 WXII Winston Salem
14 16-1, 16-2, 16-3 WGPX Burlington
32 26-1, 26-2, 26-3, 26-4, 26-5 WUNL Winston Salem
17 27-1 WFXR Roanoke, 27-2 WBVA Roanoke
and sometimes, mostly at night 59 4-1 etc WUNC Chapel Hill

Turning the antenna facing southeast (toward the Level Cross towers, but through my apartment building) I get

51 2-1, 2-1 WFMY Greensboro
35 8-1 WGHP High Point
31 12-1, 12-2 WXII Winston Salem (either direction)
29 45-1, 45-2 WXLV Winston Salem
33 48-1 WUPN Greensboro

Signals are totally usable most of the time, but a little pixelation and drops usually daytime. At night I've had no problems.

I know you guys recommended the Silver Sensor. Getting Roanoke stations was beyond my WILDEST dreams. After that first night of strange reception (WBTV-Charlotte) I didn't want to settle with locals. I'm still trying to get WBTV!

Comments?

-Amos

Rick0725
06-07-2006, 06:36 PM
I would experiment further with your cm4221 which has much more gain then the silver sensor.

Your cm4221 must be blessed.

Roanoke is a quite a distance. I remember driving the route from Roanoke to my hotel in Greensboro several times late at night... when I did consulting work in the area a few years ago.

Did you ever eat a "cat head"? Went to a meeting in greensboro and they asked if I would want one for breakfast...and I said...What?? Boy they were good.

If you are interested, possibly try a winegard hdp-269 preamp which will not overload the tuner at your distance from the towers.

Diogenes
06-08-2006, 11:38 AM
Ok, I got the CM 4221 and put it on a tripod at a window. Facing out the window (North) I get:

18 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 WDBJ Roanoke
30 10-1, 10-2 WSLS Roanoke
31 12-1, 12-2 WXII Winston Salem
14 16-1, 16-2, 16-3 WGPX Burlington
32 26-1, 26-2, 26-3, 26-4, 26-5 WUNL Winston Salem
17 27-1 WFXR Roanoke, 27-2 WBVA Roanoke
and sometimes, mostly at night 59 4-1 etc WUNC Chapel Hill

Turning the antenna facing southeast (toward the Level Cross towers, but through my apartment building) I get

51 2-1, 2-1 WFMY Greensboro
35 8-1 WGHP High Point
31 12-1, 12-2 WXII Winston Salem (either direction)
29 45-1, 45-2 WXLV Winston Salem
33 48-1 WUPN Greensboro

Signals are totally usable most of the time, but a little pixelation and drops usually daytime. At night I've had no problems.

I know you guys recommended the Silver Sensor. Getting Roanoke stations was beyond my WILDEST dreams. After that first night of strange reception (WBTV-Charlotte) I didn't want to settle with locals. I'm still trying to get WBTV!

Comments?

-Amos

This should be an object lesson to all the people out there who say they can't get OTA signals. You never know until you try. Stop waiting for D* to provide you LIL HD. Just do it.

amos1001
06-08-2006, 03:08 PM
rick,

cat head... um, was it a really large biscuit? i've heard of "cat head biscuits" before...i belive they're so named because they're about the size of a cat's head.

haven't heard that term in a while though. atlanta likes to think of itself as more "refined" than that. haha.

i'll have to look for the best cat head biscuits around here now that i've moved to NC. there's a fast-food breakfast restaurant here (regional chain) called "biscuitville." (i don't know if they have cat heads haha)


about the reception... my apartment windows face north, and roanoke is almost due north of me. also, i would guess that roanoke's tv towers are on a mountain... that extra elevation gives me the "line-of-site" that i need to get the reception. i sure didn't expect it. i am using an amp (i can't think of the name, but i mentioned it earlier in this thread)...

the 4221 has such good rejection off the rear, at first i couldn't get some of the locals (WFMY in particular). but i found the proper position and now they come in fine.

-amos

Rick0725
06-08-2006, 07:17 PM
cat head... um, was it a really large biscuit? i've heard of "cat head biscuits" before...i belive they're so named because they're about the size of a cat's head.

Yes thats it. A really large biscuit with breaded pork tenderloin, egg and cheese and a ton of butter. Took all day to get rid of the grease circle around the mouth.

There is a barbeque restaurant on west wendovor street in greensboro next door to a gentlemen's club. When I went to the office in the morning, there was a line of cars waiting to get to the drivin window over a city block long every day.