How to fix geometry issues on Toshiba 34HFX85?

Despite all the issues I've heard about people having with this set, it fits perfectly in my entertainment center, and I'm certainly pleased with it thus far. Overall picture quality is amazing. I'm coming from a 27" analog Magnavox so I'm on cloud nine.

I just have some geometry issues I need to clear up. I had to adjust the image tilt to -10. This seems to have the picture nice and squared up, but I feel as though I shouldn't have to crank it to the extreme just to get things lined up. That being said, the whole picture, be it in any of the picture modes, looks as though it curls slightly to the right along the bottom of the screen. The effect is especially pronounced when I go into my program guide or any of the menu systems on my DirecTV receiver. I don't notice it too much when watching regular programming, but stick a bunch of lines up on the screen that are supposed to be straight and the problem smacks you right in the face.

I was curious as to whether or not there's any way for me to adjust this sort of thing. I'm used to computer monitors where you have all sorts of geometry settings right at your fingertips. I could not find any way to adjust the geometry via the set's menus.

Will I have to go into the service menu? And if so, how do I access the darn thing in the first place?

18 views and not even one reply? :[

I know there are plenty of people here who have plenty of experience with this television. I lurked for quite some time and read countless threads with guys like Porcupine attacking this set from every angle.

If there's no way for me to correct the geometry, I suppose it's something I can live with. It is barely noticeable, especially if I don't watch any 4:3 programming in natural mode, and I'm not a hardcore videophile anyway.

I would still at least like to know how to access the service menu so I can explore some settings. Is there any sort of thread floating around out there that documents the service settings? A sort of how-to/faq perhaps?

I just have some geometry issues I need to clear up. I had to adjust the image tilt to -10. This seems to have the picture nice and squared up, but I feel as though I shouldn't have to crank it to the extreme just to get things lined up.

That is not unusual. Do not worry about the number, just be glad you had the range to improve it.

Run a search listing your displays model number. Tons of data to go through. After reading all, repost on specific unanswered questions. We'd all be happy to help I'm sure.

Good Viewing,

Doug k

Will do, Doug. And I'd just like to say that you're one hell of a guy. When I first stumbled upon this forum, I lurked for quite awhile before registering and read tons of threads in which you gave out your expert advice time and time again. It's very generous of you, and I think I speak for every novice out there when I say that your efforts are appreciated.

Keep up the good work!

On my 30"CRT I also had to do some angling of the pic to get it right...not with the vert or hor. settings but something called the rotation.Rather than changing the V ot H size or position,it actually rotates the whole pic,allowing me to clear up the pic running off the screen.

Hi, godson.

1.) Is your 30" CRT a Toshiba?

2.) Did you have to go into the service menu to make the adjustments?

Doug, I ran a search as you suggested and read through all sixteen threads that popped up. I've only had the TV for about 36 hours, so perhaps issues may begin to crop up over time, but I must say I guess I've gotten lucky. I definitely don't believe I have a lemon on my hands. This set doesn't appear to me to have anywhere near the barrage of issues many other folks are reporting. Of course, some of the issues, such as the whole "white glow" thing, I'm unable to test at present because I don't have an STB that allows me to output via Component or HDMI, nor do I have any HD programming to watch.

My questions at this point are as follows:

1.) I'm curious about a few things related to my satellite programming.

I have DirecTV satellite service. At present, I've only got their basic receiver and don't subscribe to any HD programming. The highest quality output this STB can do is S-Video, and that's what I'm using. I'm watching all 4:3 SD content in Theater-Wide 1 mode. Now perhaps I'm expecting too much, but I feel as though the picture is kind of poor. Is this just because the upconversion from 480i to 1080i magnifies the inherent defects in an SD signal? For instance, I'll often notice that backgrounds that are out of focus appear to be blocky/patchy.

I'm also curious about the communication between the receiver and the television with regard to a digital versus analog signal. My old TV was an analog 27" Magnavox. DirecTV claims that their satellite signal is 100% digital, so when I had my receiver hooked up to the old TV, how did a digital signal end up being processed by an analog set? And now with my new television, will the sat box be sending a digital signal and my television receiving a digital signal? This whole concept is confusing me a bit.

2.) I have a slight geometry issue I'd really like to fix.

The picture curves slightly to the right along the bottom of the screen. The effect is especially pronounced if I watch a 4:3 program in Natural mode, or when I have my DirecTV programming guide up on the screen. I can see the curvature in the edges of the pillarboxes and/or in the gride lines of the guide. I'm used to computer monitors and adjusting things like pincushion, trapezoid, etc. How do I do that with my television?

I was poking around the DirecTV website, and now I think I might be making a little more sense of the whole digital/analog thing. Will I need an HD receiver to get a truly digital signal going from STB to TV? And will this perhaps make SD channels look a bit better?

You can easily adjust the geometry for this set in the service menu. Plenty of info on how to access the service menu and what parameters control what. I have a 30hf84 (identical menu structure and service menu settings to the HF85 series) If you can't find what you are looking for pm me and I'll send you the sections from my sets service manual on how to adjust.

P.S. You can even agjust the Tilt from the service menu so you can leave the user menu at 0.

I was poking around the DirecTV website, and now I think I might be making a little more sense of the whole digital/analog thing. Will I need an HD receiver to get a truly digital signal going from STB to TV? And will this perhaps make SD channels look a bit better?
An HD reciever will give you HD channels,and most of the time the SD channels look worse on a HD set.i got so aggravated with the SD that I barely watch it anymore.But when I do I use a S-video and switch inputs to watch SD,it looks much better than when I'm using either HDMI or component.Dont know if this the standard for all sets but once you get the HD,I would experiment a little to see what looks best to you.Look in the satellite threads for some better info,I have Comcast so not sure if what i said stands true for dishes.

Truman, your picture is very ugly and scary!! :eek:

Anyways, to activate the service menu on the Toshibas just set the volume to 0, then hold down the Volume Down button on the TV set and the "9" button on the remote at the same time, for about a second. That'll activate the service menu. Have fun trying to fix your geometry problems. Let us know how it goes.

I'd say from my experience with multiple Toshiba units (all returned), that geometry problems with them will fall into one of 3 categories: 1) something that is easily fixed in the service menu, 2) something that is simply a limitation of the design of this TV, that you might be able to partially fix in the service menu, though perhaps at the cost of other things, 3) something totally unfixable in the service menu and is probably only due to your particular set being manufactured worse-than-normal.

As long as it is not geometry problems of type 3) the problem is acceptable so do what you can to improve the picture, then live with it. :) (note: only 1 of my 4 sets had geometry problems of the last type, and it was really severe)

Oh yeah, and generally speaking I was able to use the Service Menu to improve problems of the first two types on all 4 of my sets. So you probably will be able to make a lot of improvement too.

I have my 34HF84 set on -1 or -2 tilt correction. My problem was that slight bowing in the lower right-hand corner. Wanding it did nothing, so I returned it and my next set was damned near flawless. I can't believe that you have to have your 85 set on -10! Has the quality control slipped that much? How about your Theaterwide 1 setting? Does it seem to be zoomed a bit much? Mine is, but I feel no need to try to monkey with it myself- maybe one day I'll get around to having someone do it for me...

After an evening with a few image tests from the THX Optimizer up on the screen (I don't have Avia or DVE but plan on getting one or the other in the future.), I was able to get the picture as close to perfect (geometry-wise) as it ever needs to be.

I adjusted tilt in the service menu such that now I can leave my image tilt in the regular menus at 0. Ultimately, I only had to mess with about a half dozen of the service menu options to get everything straightened out, and all changes were only minor tweaks save for the tilt which was way out of whack to begin with.

I wasn't brave enough to go messing with the service menu options related to picture quality. I'm not sure what half of them even mean, and I really didn't want to somehow damage my set.

DVDs look absolutely wonderful on this set, and I'm perfectly satisfied with the overall picture quality. (I'm using Component for my DVD hookup and the player outputs at 480p.) The more I read about HD sets, the more I realize that I'm probably just expecting too much out of SD.

Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. It's fun getting into the whole new world of technology!

Oh, and jsslifelike, I suppose I wouldn't mind if my TW1 mode didn't zoom quite so much. Any sort of ticker gets cut off. If it's something important that I want to see, I switch to Full mode, but then everything looks a bit short and squatty. It's only a very minor issue though, and certainly not something that would get me to return the set.

I've only had the TV for about 36 hours, so perhaps issues may begin to crop up over time, but I must say I guess I've gotten lucky. I definitely don't believe I have a lemon on my hands. This set doesn't appear to me to have anywhere near the barrage of issues many other folks are reporting. Of course, some of the issues, such as the whole "white glow" thing, I'm unable to test at present because I don't have an STB that allows me to output via Component or HDMI, nor do I have any HD programming to watch.
Having tripped over this myself, I'd strongly suggest you check out all the inputs at all resolutions thoroughly as soon as you can (before your return window closes). I thought all was well, but then found out that I couldn't stomach the light/dark shadowy banding that showed up using 1080i and (to a lesser degree) 720p over HDMI. Initially I thought 720p was clear, and by the time I noticed the problem was there too, I was past my 30 days.

I don't have any way to generate 1080i over component (I thought my upconverting player did, but turns out not to be the case), so I might have the white glow too.

You might not be using hi-def now, but it'll be much less hassle if you find out now whether you can live with any of the potential problems rather than several months down the road.

My $0.02 anyway.

PS- How are the blacks on your set? Mine has a pretty noticable crush. I was able to mitigate it somewhat with Avia, but it's still present.

...Oh, and jsslifelike, I suppose I wouldn't mind if my TW1 mode didn't zoom quite so much. Any sort of ticker gets cut off. If it's something important that I want to see, I switch to Full mode, but then everything looks a bit short and squatty. It's only a very minor issue though, and certainly not something that would get me to return the set.
In TW2 and 3 modes you can scroll the picture to move down to the ticker - of course it cuts off more of the top.....

spurdy, you'll have to forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by 'crush'? I'm still quite new to the HD world, so I'm picking up the vocabulary as I go along. I certainly will heed your advice, and it's my plan to really put this set to the test as soon as possible. Fortunately for me, I have a bit longer time frame in which to work. I bought my TV from a local electronics store, one I've gone to for years (picked up my washer, dryer, stove and refridgerator there a long time ago). It's a family owned business, and I know a few of the employees pretty well. I got an amazing warranty from them that goes above and beyond the manufacturer's warranty, and I'll be able to return the TV, no questions asked, within a window of 90 days versus the standard 30.

ja2935, I really don't see myself using either of those modes very much. They make pretty much all 4:3 programming look goofy to me. Of course, TW3 is for programming with closed captioning, and I absolutely never use that. TW2, I guess, is for letterboxed 4:3 programs?

spurdy, you'll have to forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by 'crush'? I'm still quite new to the HD world, so I'm picking up the vocabulary as I go along. I certainly will heed your advice, and it's my plan to really put this set to the test as soon as possible.
Black crush refers to the loss of image detail in darker areas. Esentially, when the display treats dark (but not black) signals the same as black (in effect "crushing" the lower end of the luminance scale). You can have "white crush" too, where bright areas are too bright, and "crushed" to the maximum white.

On my set the black crush is significant. Dark clothing, hair, and shadow areas often fall off to complete black far too soon, not showing detail that, given the surrounding scene lighting, should be visible. I can compensate somewhat by adjusting the black level ("brightness"), but it is still present.

Don't worry, you'll pick up the lingo quickly. Give yourself a few days and you may develop as much of a fixation with wringing the best picture quality out of your set as I have. Just be warned, in hindsight it can be an "ignorance is (or was) bliss" situation... :D

...ja2935, I really don't see myself using either of those modes very much. They make pretty much all 4:3 programming look goofy to me. Of course, TW3 is for programming with closed captioning, and I absolutely never use that. TW2, I guess, is for letterboxed 4:3 programs?
Yes, I rarely use TW3 but TW2 is for letterboxed 4:3 programmes AND widescreen DVDs that are NOT enhanced for W/S TVs (ie not anamorphic). It has no distortion and is simply a zoom setting.

Now that you've described it, spurdy, yes, my set has that problem somewhat.

Check out my new thread entitled "Is SD supposed to look like this on my 34HFX85?" I've posted a few pictures that are representative of what most SD programs look like on my TV. I'm wondering if my PQ is bad or if that's just what SD is supposed to look like on an HDTV.

Truman, your picture is very ugly and scary!!

Album art... King Crimson. Great music, great album.

Oh wow, haha! When I first read that I thought Porcupine was making a reference to the PQ on my TV. Talk about going right over my head!

Yes, I'm a huge King Crimson fan. Glad to see another fan in our midst. :]

LOL... yeah. I had a 20 year start on you though!