Wondering if I Bought Correct Player - Pana BD60K

I just ordered through Panasonic website a DMP-BD60K and am now wondering if I should have ordered the 80K. Got the 60K @ special price of $114+tax NEW (corporate discount plus rebate). The 80K was offered at $169+tax so seems like a good deal. My home theater audio system is: Marantz SR7400 which does not support HDMI. I have Sony 46" LCD rear projection with one HDMI that I use exclusively with upconverting Sony DVP-NS90V, and I use components for cable through TiVo. I also occasionally use 2 channel analog audio out on Sony to drive auxiliary speakers in another room through Marantz and it looks like the 80K for analog audio out only has the 7.1, no 2 channel. That's why I chose the 60 over the 80.

If I understand things correctly - given my audio set-up I can't take full advantage of HD audio from Pana players because I'm not using HDMI except for video as Marantz doesn't support. Am I missing anything - is there any other reason I should have considered the 80K? I have 5.1 analog audio output on Sony but frankly never used it.

The only downside I could find with 60K is that it only has a digital audio OPTICAL output, and I'm out of OPTICAL inputs on the Marantz so will have to give up something else. I thought I read somewhere some other special considerations for the 80K on the audio side, something about some settings causing a loss of low level/subwoofer sound.

Sorry for the rambling and probably confusing note. I guess I'm just having a little buyers remorse wondering if I should have ordered the 80K instead. The $114 for the 60K seems a real bargain, plus it looks like it will hook-up identically to how I have been using my Sony DVD player.

Any counsel?

I believe both Panasonic models are good BD players which ever one you choose. You say you can't get HD audio but it doesn't matter if you don't have HDMI on your reciever. You can go through the analogue connections on the Panasonic BD player and let it decode the HD codecs.

But the BD80 has the 7.1 analog audio outputs while the BD60 does NOT have the 7.1 analog audio outputs. If the OP receiver has the 5.1/7.1 analog audio inputs then he should have bought the BD80 to get the HD audio.

But the BD80 has the 7.1 analog audio outputs while the BD60 does NOT have the 7.1 analog audio outputs. If the OP receiver has the 5.1/7.1 analog audio inputs then he should have bought the BD80 to get the HD audio.

Ok i see what you mean PFC5, my mistake i thought both the Panasonic machines had the 7.1 analog inputs. In that case the OP may have been better of paying a little extra for the BD80.

The BD80 has multichannel analog and coax outputs and seems like a more appropriate player in the OP's circumstances.

The low subwoofer output happens because while LFE is designed to play back 10dB louder than the other channels, it is output at the same level - in other words, it's 10dB low. This is done to prevent clipping during transmission. The sub channel must be boosted by 10dB in the receiver or at the sub itself in order to get the proper bass output. With some receivers that can be done by a simple setting change. With others, it is a bit more difficult.

Sorry - now I am more confused than ever. While my Marantz does have 7.1 analog audio input, I have never used it. I have always been pleased with the digital audio as fed by TiVo for HD broadcasts and DVD for upconverting standard DVDs. Moving to BluRay, I had not even considered worrying about HD audio, as the Marantz does not have an HDMI. While I have $2K invested in my home theater system, I did not think that the uncompressed HD audio available from BD discs would provide a worthwhile improvement over the digital codecs fed via digital input - such as DTS, DTS-Neo6,DTS-ES,DTS-96/24,Dolby Digital...My 2004-era Marantz supports those. It seems like moving backwards to feed Analog 7.1 from a BD player to my Marantz than staying with the "more modern" Digital Codecs which the Marantz was really designed to leverage. The marketing material for the BD80 even says "...for older receivers, 7.1 analog audio is available." That's my confusion.

Another point of confusion - assuming I stay with the BD60 order and feed BD audio through the digital optical with digital codecs - will I have a subwoofer boost requirement, or is that only with the BD80 feeding uncompressed HD audio through the analog 7.1?

Geesh - feel like I need to go get an EE degree!

Sorry - now I am more confused than ever. While my Marantz does have 7.1 analog audio input, I have never used it. I have always been pleased with the digital audio as fed by TiVo for HD broadcasts and DVD for upconverting standard DVDs. Moving to BluRay, I had not even considered worrying about HD audio, as the Marantz does not have an HDMI. While I have $2K invested in my home theater system, I did not think that the uncompressed HD audio available from BD discs would provide a worthwhile improvement over the digital codecs fed via digital input - such as DTS, DTS-Neo6,DTS-ES,DTS-96/24,Dolby Digital...My 2004-era Marantz supports those. It seems like moving backwards to feed Analog 7.1 from a BD player to my Marantz than staying with the "more modern" Digital Codecs which the Marantz was really designed to leverage. The marketing material for the BD80 even says "...for older receivers, 7.1 analog audio is available." That's my confusion.

Another point of confusion - assuming I stay with the BD60 order and feed BD audio through the digital optical with digital codecs - will I have a subwoofer boost requirement, or is that only with the BD80 feeding uncompressed HD audio through the analog 7.1?

Geesh - feel like I need to go get an EE degree!

I believe the lossless audio codecs used with Blu-ray, uncompressed PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, do offer a significant improvement over the lossy audio you get over optical or coaxial digital connections. I believe the difference is most noticeable with music. You need to be able to hear the various forms of audio to make your own decision. I have been listening to music using the high resolution lossless audio formats, DVD-A and SACD for years and preferred those formats over CD and DVD-V. Only a small market got involved with SACD and DVD-A so it could very well be that a majority doesn't agree with me, I have never seen any statistics.

I believe the DMP-BD80 would have been the correct choice for you but the good news is Blu-ray using the legacy digital connections is great as well.

Chris

Sorry - now I am more confused than ever. While my Marantz does have 7.1 analog audio input, I have never used it. I have always been pleased with the digital audio as fed by TiVo for HD broadcasts and DVD for upconverting standard DVDs. Moving to BluRay, I had not even considered worrying about HD audio, as the Marantz does not have an HDMI. While I have $2K invested in my home theater system, I did not think that the uncompressed HD audio available from BD discs would provide a worthwhile improvement over the digital codecs fed via digital input - such as DTS, DTS-Neo6,DTS-ES,DTS-96/24,Dolby Digital...My 2004-era Marantz supports those. It seems like moving backwards to feed Analog 7.1 from a BD player to my Marantz than staying with the "more modern" Digital Codecs which the Marantz was really designed to leverage. The marketing material for the BD80 even says "...for older receivers, 7.1 analog audio is available." That's my confusion.

Another point of confusion - assuming I stay with the BD60 order and feed BD audio through the digital optical with digital codecs - will I have a subwoofer boost requirement, or is that only with the BD80 feeding uncompressed HD audio through the analog 7.1?

Geesh - feel like I need to go get an EE degree!

The BD80 will decode the new HD audio codecs internally and send them via multichannel analog audio outputs (if you so desire and set it to do so) so you can connect that to your Marantz. Is there a difference between that and DD 5.1, you betcha. Is it enough for you to hear a difference, on many soundtracks it is. The choice is yours but I would recommend doing it, you might be vary surprised...

Hope this helps and yes it is getting very confusing...:)

OK - looks like I may need to cancel that sweetheart deal $114 order for the BD60 and pay $160 for the BD80.

I still don't have a clear idea on one thing. My surround speaker system for watching video is only 5.1, and I use a 2nd set of speakers in another room to listen to audio CDs via 2 channel analog audio from my current DVD through the Marantz. Does the BD80 have a set-up option to send 5.1 uncompressed HD audio through my Marantz and use channels 6/7 as 2 channel L/R audio feed for my existing multi-room speaker set-up for audio CDs? I have been studying the BD60/80 online owners manual but can't quite figure it out.

If I can get confirmation that I can keep all my current functionality with Marantz 5.1 theater surround plus leverage 2 channel analog audio for separate room speakers, then it'll be clear that I do need to move to the BD80 - sorry for all the ignorant head-scratching questions!

I just discovered potentially another option but not sure if it clear things up. I took a look at the manual for my TV - Sony Grand Wega KDF-E42A10 and noticed that, in addition to one HDMI input, it has a Digital Audio Optical Output. In the manual it states "Connects to the optical audio input of a digital audio component that is PCM/Dolby Digital compatible." Wondering if that helps my situation???

Seems that I should be able to get uncompressed HD audio digitally to the Marantz via the TV and HDMI? I guess maybe the problem continues to be that the Marantz can't support the uncompressed digital codecs??? If that's the case I wonder how it treats the digital audio signal? argh!

OK - looks like I may need to cancel that sweetheart deal $114 order for the BD60 and pay $160 for the BD80.

I still don't have a clear idea on one thing. My surround speaker system for watching video is only 5.1, and I use a 2nd set of speakers in another room to listen to audio CDs via 2 channel analog audio from my current DVD through the Marantz. Does the BD80 have a set-up option to send 5.1 uncompressed HD audio through my Marantz and use channels 6/7 as 2 channel L/R audio feed for my existing multi-room speaker set-up for audio CDs? I have been studying the BD60/80 online owners manual but can't quite figure it out.

If I can get confirmation that I can keep all my current functionality with Marantz 5.1 theater surround plus leverage 2 channel analog audio for separate room speakers, then it'll be clear that I do need to move to the BD80 - sorry for all the ignorant head-scratching questions!

Yes you can set/connect the player to 5.1 and everything else will work as you require.

I just discovered potentially another option but not sure if it clear things up. I took a look at the manual for my TV - Sony Grand Wega KDF-E42A10 and noticed that, in addition to one HDMI input, it has a Digital Audio Optical Output. In the manual it states "Connects to the optical audio input of a digital audio component that is PCM/Dolby Digital compatible." Wondering if that helps my situation???

Seems that I should be able to get uncompressed HD audio digitally to the Marantz via the TV and HDMI? I guess maybe the problem continues to be that the Marantz can't support the uncompressed digital codecs??? If that's the case I wonder how it treats the digital audio signal? argh!

Your TV will only send out 5.1 from it's internal TV tuner. Al else (other inputs) will be downgraded to 2 channel stereo.

Thank you! That pretty much settles it. Looks like I should cancel the BD60 and upgrade to the BD80 and then go get some audio cables for the 5.1/2 channel analog feeds from the BD to the amp.

Although I do wonder if my older music DVDs such as Eagles Farewell I Tour - Melbourne will sound worse with 5.1 analog audio than the digital DTS codec encoded on the DVD. Do I also hook-up digital audio cables to support those older DVDs, or does it have to be one or the other?

And here's one more really dumb question - can I repurpose any analog audio cables from the 2 channel days (white/red) I have in the attic or is there something "special" about 5.1 analog cabling???

I do wonder if my older music DVDs such as Eagles Farewell I Tour - Melbourne will sound worse with 5.1 analog audio than the digital DTS codec encoded on the DVD. Do I also hook-up digital audio cables to support those older DVDs, or does it have to be one or the other?With analog, you are still listening to the DTS source from the disc. Digital always has to be converted to analog in order to be heard. The only difference is where the decoding, processing (bass management, EQ, etc), and digital-analog conversion take place. The decoding will be the same in either device. But, you may find the processing and digital-analog conversion is better in your receiver than the player. Or not. It depends on your equipment.

You can use both connections and select the one you want on your receiver. I use analog for lossless BD playback and digital for most everything else.

And here's one more really dumb question - can I repurpose any analog audio cables from the 2 channel days (white/red) I have in the attic or is there something "special" about 5.1 analog cabling???Yes, you can use any analog audio cables. But, it's always a good idea to get well constructed cables. Try monoprice.com. They make excellent cables at very reasonable prices.

Thanks! Great advice - you answered all my questions, case closed! I like your approach - analog for lossless BD playback and digital for most everything else - I I think I'll start with the same set-up. Thanks again!

Thanks! Great advice - you answered all my questions, case closed! I like your approach - analog for lossless BD playback and digital for most everything else - I I think I'll start with the same set-up. Thanks again!

You may want to try the analog with the other as well. You might be in for a surprise...

You may want to try the analog with the other as well. You might be in for a surprise...
Yeah, why not? That is an interesting question though, legacy DD/DTS on the analog outs vs. optical out. Souldn't be much audible difference, other than possibly signal strength?

Besides, luvsoccer is out of optical inputs on the Marantz anyway.

Yeah, why not? That is an interesting question though, legacy DD/DTS on the analog outs vs. optical out. Souldn't be much audible difference, other than possibly signal strength?There are many differences.

The player has no EQ for room correction, many AVRs do.

The player has no DSPs, AVRs do. I happen to prefer listening to CDs using PLII, which can't be done when using the players multichannel analog outputs.

The player has a single fixed crossover at 100Hz. Many receivers allow the user to select a crossover that works for his/her specific speakers and some allow for different crossovers for each speaker or each speaker pair.

Then, there's the DACs. Many receivers have better DACs than players.

In the end, the only way to know whether there's a difference and which path is better is to try it both ways on your own equipment in your own room.

Besides, luvsoccer is out of optical inputs on the Marantz anyway.The BD80 has a coax output

Not to start something, I'm interested in this peoblem because I'm in the same boat: I have a nice AVR that predates HDMI, and I'm not updating anytime soon.
There are many differences.

The player has no EQ for room correction, many AVRs do.
Yes, and it seems to me that the most, probably all AVRs with fancy room correction functions are also HDMI 1.3, thus making any processing or lack of it through the analog inputs superfluous (except for the rare individual playing SACD and DVD-A discs. And that reminds me: Do the Panasonics still play DVD-A?).

The player has no DSPs, AVRs do. I happen to prefer listening to CDs using PLII, which can't be done when using the players multichannel analog outputs.
And so do I (actually LOGIC 7), but I do it through a standard stereo line input. And anybody else could do the same thing via the stereo line outputs on either the Pan 60 or 80. Still I do see the point of these multi-line inputs are not responsive to any surround effects, other than what the source device is doing. But....this is a limitation that applies to any BD disc outputting TrueHD or DTS-MA, does it not? So then the question becomes is one better off listening to a lossy codec with all the perameters set correctly, or the lossless codec more or less "raw" through the multi-line inputs, with only volume and size settings available?

The player has a single fixed crossover at 100Hz. Many receivers allow the user to select a crossover that works for his/her specific speakers and some allow for different crossovers for each speaker or each speaker pair.
I have seen nothing about the 80 having a specific crossover, but I'll take your word for it. But again, this applies to Blu-ray discs as well as DVDs, does it not? And if this is such a bad thing, then why bother trying to listen to lossless through the analog inputs?

Then, there's the DACs. Many receivers have better DACs than players
In the end, the only way to know whether there's a difference and which path is better is to try it both ways on your own equipment in your own room.
I'm sure that's true, but I have to rely on the player because I'm HDMI-less.

it seems to me that the most, probably all AVRs with fancy room correction functions are also HDMI 1.3, thus making any processing or lack of it through the analog inputs superfluous (except for the rare individual playing SACD and DVD-A discs. And that reminds me: Do the Panasonics still play DVD-A?). EQ predates HDMI. My HDMI-free Denon AVR-3805 does EQ for room correction. So, while it may be superfluous for you, it's not for me or for anyone with similar, older equipment. And, of course, EQ is just one of several features of digital processing that may differ between player and receiver.

Panasonic dropped DVD-A after the BD-10a.

I do it through a standard stereo line input. And anybody else could do the same thing via the stereo line outputs on either the Pan 60 or 80.Yes, which is also a separate connection from the multichannel analogs. I think you are missing the point here. The 5.1 analogs have limitations that often warrant second (or third) connections. The added connection can be S/PDIF or stereo analog or both.

Still I do see the point of these multi-line inputs are not responsive to any surround effects, other than what the source device is doing. But....this is a limitation that applies to any BD disc outputting TrueHD or DTS-MA, does it not? So then the question becomes is one better off listening to a lossy codec with all the perameters set correctly, or the lossless codec more or less "raw" through the multi-line inputs, with only volume and size settings available?I would think that depends on your room, your equipment, and your personal preferences. Given the high quality of the max bitrate legacy encodes on BD, some people may find the lossy outputs are better. That's especially true for those with 7.1 systems, where the analog path means silent rear speakers with many BDs.

I have seen nothing about the 80 having a specific crossover, but I'll take your word for it. But again, this applies to Blu-ray discs as well as DVDs, does it not? And if this is such a bad thing, then why bother trying to listen to lossless through the analog inputs?Again, this depends on your equipment. My speakers are best with an 80Hz crossover, which is how I have the AVR set. But, the 100Hz crossover works just fine, too. The player gives me lossless over analog and, with my room and equipment, I can live with the limitations of the player when it comes to audio processing for lossless BD playback.

But, with DVDs, there's no reason to accept the limitations of the player. DVDs have lossy tracks. So, EQ, better crossover control, and better AVR DACs all offer benefits with no downside. Also, the Panasonic dts-MA Essential decoder does not process 96/24, ES, or Neo:6 extensions on DVD while legacy decoders in AVRs do. That's why I use digital for DVDs.

I'm sure that's true, but I have to rely on the player because I'm HDMI-less.As I explained, my receiver also lacks HDMI. I choose to use analog for lossless because it sounds better that way and I choose to use digital for other sources because they sound better that way. (btw, to me, the differences are not great either way.) I don't understand why your AVR's lack of HDMI means you cannot try it both ways and use the one that sounds better. It appears you have decided that lossless is better without even bothering to compare, which is your right, of course.

EQ predates HDMI. My HDMI-free Denon AVR-3805 does EQ for room correction. So, while it may be superfluous for you, it's not for me or for anyone with similar, older equipment. And, of course, EQ is just one of several features of digital processing that may differ between player and receiver.
When you wrote ”EQ”, my first thought was the relatively new Audyssey and that most of the AVRs with that already had HDMI 1.1 at least, and that those owners had no reason to be concerned about the analog inputs since they’d be using HDMI. But of course EQ has been around for quite a while, such as Pioneer’s MCACC, to name just one. So, because my HK AVR 7300 doesn’t support HDMI, what does or doesn’t happen on its inputs is very important to me, not superfluous at all.

Panasonic dropped DVD-A after the BD-10a.
At the time, I thought it was kinda strange that a solid foot soldier in the BDA would support a competing high resolution format to Sony’s SACD.

Yes, which is also a separate connection from the multichannel analogs. I think you are missing the point here. The 5.1 analogs have limitations that often warrant second (or third) connections. The added connection can be S/PDIF or stereo analog or both.
I’m not missing the point at all. I would happily hook up and use all outputs if it means better performance. I can see value in using S/PDIF, stereo analog, and the multi-analog outputs. This whole exchange started when I speculated on the difference between the legacy codecs as heard via optical/coax vs. the player's analog outs. I certainly did not mean to say or imply that the analog outputs would be superior to S/PDIF. Just that the sound quality just might be the same. As you have pointed out, that is most likely not the case due to other factors.

I would think that depends on your room, your equipment, and your personal preferences. Given the high quality of the max bitrate legacy encodes on BD, some people may find the lossy outputs are better. That's especially true for those with 7.1 systems, where the analog path means silent rear speakers with many BDs.
I have already experienced the max bitrate via HD DVD on my A3. DD on 300 comes to mind, and is very impressive for lossy. This gives me pause if all the work in dealing with the lossless codecs is going to be worth the trouble for me. This is especially true because my analog inputs are already being used with my utility DVD player that also supports SACD/DVD-A. I don’t have a great deal invested in these two formats, but I would miss hearing several of them. (What I really need is the new Oppo, but I’ve never dropped that much on a player and I probably never will.)

Again, this depends on your equipment. My speakers are best with an 80Hz crossover, which is how I have the AVR set. But, the 100Hz crossover works just fine, too. The player gives me lossless over analog and, with my room and equipment, I can live with the limitations of the player when it comes to audio processing for lossless BD playback.
At first glance it would seem my life would be simpler, since I use full range towers that produce usable bass down to 30 Hz. So I don’t use a sub. The crossover is automatic in the speaker. They do produce some serious bass with the 250 watt amps in each. But then as I understand it, the LFE needs at least a 10dB or more boost to compensate for the way the audio codecs are authored on DVD/BD. This may be the biggest reason to use the player’s digital out on DVD. So at present, I have no way to adjust the LFE signal, since the my AVR is configured to “none” on the sub. I am beginning to see why DefTech put LFE inputs on the towers, which I have had no reason to use until now. I suppose I can configure “YES” to subwoofer in a player like the Pan 80, and then adjust the sub volume upward there. And then the AVR would deal with the incoming LFE signal, I think. (I have configured “NO” to sub on my SACD/DVD-A, but I understand no LFE boost is needed there as I certainly don’t have a problem with bass level or management on those discs.)

But, with DVDs, there's no reason to accept the limitations of the player. DVDs have lossy tracks. So, EQ, better crossover control, and better AVR DACs all offer benefits with no downside. Also, the Panasonic dts-MA Essential decoder does not process 96/24, ES, or Neo:6 extensions on DVD while legacy decoders in AVRs do. That's why I use digital for DVDs.
I wonder why it is always assumed the DACs in any given AVR are better than what is in any given player. I also have questioned whether DACs have an individual sound, provided they don’t muck up the analog wave form coming out. But I am certainly not prepared to argue either of these points, as I am all about enjoying movies and music and prefer to understand only as much of this stuff as I need to.

As I explained, my receiver also lacks HDMI. I choose to use analog for lossless because it sounds better that way and I choose to use digital for other sources because they sound better that way. (btw, to me, the differences are not great either way.) I don't understand why your AVR's lack of HDMI means you cannot try it both ways and use the one that sounds better. It appears you have decided that lossless is better without even bothering to compare, which is your right, of course.
Here I have to apologize for a complete brain fart on my part. In my haste, I was thinking you were talking about HDMI vs. multi-analog input -- which obviously you were not. I am certainly not adverse to trying things different ways -- it’s all part of the hobby is it not? Thanks for your time. :)

Here I have to apologize for a complete brain fart on my part. In my haste, I was thinking you were talking about HDMI vs. multi-analog input -- which obviously you were not. I am certainly not adverse to trying things different ways -- it’s all part of the hobby is it not? Thanks for your time. :)

But HDMI vs. multichannel analog audio IS what I was talking about...

This gives me pause if all the work in dealing with the lossless codecs is going to be worth the trouble for me. This is especially true because my analog inputs are already being used with my utility DVD player that also supports SACD/DVD-A. I don’t have a great deal invested in these two formats, but I would miss hearing several of them. (What I really need is the new Oppo, but I’ve never dropped that much on a player and I probably never will.)I use a simple mechanical switch ($30 on Amazon) to share my AVR's analog inputs between my BD and SACD/DVD-A players.

At first glance it would seem my life would be simpler, since I use full range towers that produce usable bass down to 30 Hz. So I don’t use a sub. The crossover is automatic in the speaker. They do produce some serious bass with the 250 watt amps in each. But then as I understand it, the LFE needs at least a 10dB or more boost to compensate for the way the audio codecs are authored on DVD/BD. This may be the biggest reason to use the player’s digital out on DVD. So at present, I have no way to adjust the LFE signal, since the my AVR is configured to “none” on the sub. I am beginning to see why DefTech put LFE inputs on the towers, which I have had no reason to use until now. I suppose I can configure “YES” to subwoofer in a player like the Pan 80, and then adjust the sub volume upward there. And then the AVR would deal with the incoming LFE signal, I think. (I have configured “NO” to sub on my SACD/DVD-A, but I understand no LFE boost is needed there as I certainly don’t have a problem with bass level or management on those discs.)This is a big deal and means you probably should not get a Panasonic player. It's hard to believe, but Panasonic players do not reroute LFE to the mains when configured for no subwoofer. They simply discard the data. That information comes from people at AVS who tested the analog outputs and it was confirmed by Panasonic engineering in Japan in an email to Chris Boylan, who runs the website BigPictureBigSound. You will not find that kind of information in manuals or on spec sheets. I suggest you contact customer support for any player you are considering to see how they handle LFE over analog when the player is configured without a sub.

Since the DefTech speakers has LFE inputs on the towers (like my Klipsch RP5s) what I do is I set the sub to YES (very important) and run the LFE out from the receiver to one and then run a cable from the LFE out on one to the LFE input on the other tower in mine. I also run the L/R pre-outs to the LINE-IN inputs on my Klipsch so that I get sub through the RP5s internal crossovers for sources that do not send an LFE signal (like stereo music etc to use the subs for them also). Not sure if you have this LINE-IN also, but you should definitely try to set it up like mine the best you can. You will then have stereo subs for music, and fully utilize the powered subs in your towers like I do.

I'm the one who started this whole thread and then half-way through determined that I had all my answers. My Pana BD80K arrives tomorrow and I do have a sub in my sound system driven by the Marantz 7400. When configuring 5.1 analog, will I need to boost the LFE by 10dB from the receiver side? Thought I read somewhere that you need to do that with this player when using analog outs but have not been able to confirm.

Thanks in advance...

My Pana BD80K arrives tomorrow and I do have a sub in my sound system driven by the Marantz 7400. When configuring 5.1 analog, will I need to boost the LFE by 10dB from the receiver side? Thought I read somewhere that you need to do that with this player when using analog outs but have not been able to confirm.Yes, you need to boost the sub in the receiver or at the sub itself when using multichannel analog.

LFE is designed to play 10dB higher than the others channels (115dB instead of 105dB). It may clip in transmission above 105dB. So, LFE is recorded 10dB low and must be boosted downstream to get back to the proper playback level. Software handles the boost with digital transmission. The user needs to do it with analog.

Also, if you do bass management in the player, the sub output (LFE + redirected bass) is dropped another 5dB to provide the needed headroom in very loud passages. So, with small speakers, you will need to boost the sub up to 15dB.

My Denon receiver in my signature does offer the bass boost increments of 5db/10db/15db, and since Marantz is the same company as Denon (D&M Holding) your receiver likely has this feature buried in the receiver's menus.

Post #15
Thanks! Great advice - you answered all my questions, case closed! I like your approach - analog for lossless BD playback and digital for most everything else - I I think I'll start with the same set-up. Thanks again!
Post #16
You may want to try the analog with the other as well. You might be in for a surprise...
Later...
But HDMI vs. multichannel analog audio IS what I was talking about...
Apparently you have forgotten that the OP's AVR doesn't support HDMI.

I'm the one who started this whole thread and then half-way through determined that I had all my answers. My Pana BD80K arrives tomorrow and I do have a sub in my sound system driven by the Marantz 7400. When configuring 5.1 analog, will I need to boost the LFE by 10dB from the receiver side? Thought I read somewhere that you need to do that with this player when using analog outs but have not been able to confirm.

Thanks in advance...
My apologies luvsoccer, I did not mean to hijack your thread. Things just spiraled off on a tangent -- an informative one for me, to say the least. Good luck to you and have fun with the new toy.

This is a big deal and means you probably should not get a Panasonic player. It's hard to believe, but Panasonic players do not reroute LFE to the mains when configured for no subwoofer. They simply discard the data. That information comes from people at AVS who tested the analog outputs and it was confirmed by Panasonic engineering in Japan in an email to Chris Boylan, who runs the website BigPictureBigSound. You will not find that kind of information in manuals or on spec sheets. I suggest you contact customer support for any player you are considering to see how they handle LFE over analog when the player is configured without a sub.
This is an unbelieveable revelation. (I can just see the engineers of Sony-Japan responding to a personal e-mail question on bass management on the BDP-S1000ES.:D) I'm sure there's an interesting story on why someting like this happened at Panasonic. My guess is that it had something to do with cost containment pressure from the accounting department.

I do think there is a workaround though.....

Since the DefTech speakers has LFE inputs on the towers (like my Klipsch RP5s) what I do is I set the sub to YES (very important) and run the LFE out from the receiver to one and then run a cable from the LFE out on one to the LFE input on the other tower in mine. I also run the L/R pre-outs to the LINE-IN inputs on my Klipsch so that I get sub through the RP5s internal crossovers for sources that do not send an LFE signal (like stereo music etc to use the subs for them also). Not sure if you have this LINE-IN also, but you should definitely try to set it up like mine the best you can. You will then have stereo subs for music, and fully utilize the powered subs in your towers like I do.
As I mentioned, my DefTechs have LFE inputs, but no other ins or outs. The manual suggests to use a "Y" adaptor from the AVR LFE out to the towers, while configuring sub to "YES" and the towers to "LARGE". It would take some serious set up work with a BD setup disc and my SPL meter, but I think it might work out. But you know, there's always something....as with the likely 3dB loss in gain from the Y adaptor and other possible issues....

JMS, you could just set the speakers to large in the receiver and boost it 15DB for LFE in the receiver. There may be a boosting RCA Y adapter that is another possibility too. Go to www.monoprice.com and look to see if they have such an adapter, as that might help.

It is strange that they do not have LFE out on the DefTech towers like my Klipsch powered towers have to daisy chain the LFE from the receiver for just that issue with the signal loss using a Y adapter.

I love the powered towers configuration myself and I was looking at DefTechs if I ever had to replace my Klipsch. You do know that when you consider another receiver you should look at the models that have dual LFE outputs now that have made it into the more reasonably priced models. ;)

Thank you all for the great insights into BD and specifically into all the intricacies associated with BD audio. I have learned A LOT from these posts and I really appreciate EVERYONE'S inputs.

After my first weekend of using the Panasonic BD80 I have absolutely no regrets. I am really glad I followed folks' advice and switched to the BD80 from the BD60. I was skeptical that the uncompressed analog audio from the BD80 would be a noticeable improvement over compressed digital audio. The audio sounds every bit as WOW as the 1080 video looks. For example, when a door closed in the audio soundtrack we thought someone had come through the front door - you have a hard time distinguishing recorded sound from live sound - it's that good.

I have also started trying Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music setting on my Marantz per one of the poster's advice for listening to stereo music and it sounds really nice - had never tried that before. Just another example of good insights picked up on this forum.

Thank you all again - great stuff!