So I'm looking at some panasonic plasmas for my next tv (going to go with either the 50" g10 or V10 i think, most likely the g10 since its $500 cheaper) and while I was looking at some of the specs for the panny plasmas I noticed that some had this:
2:3 pulldown with 24p playback (like the s1 and the c1) and some (like the g10 and v10) don't. I've been looking through a ton of threads and have seen some information about this, but nothing that really sums it up. So my two questions are: Can someone explain this concept to me? I"m sure someone on here if not many of you can. and the second is that why that particular spec listed on some tv's but not others even though the refresh rate is the same(600Hz)? thanks
PFC5
11-05-2009, 04:38 PM
The V10 series has a 96Hz refresh mode for 24Fps content so it handles 24Fps film content by repeating the exact same fram 4x (24Fps x 4 = 96Fps/96Hz). The G10/15 series can either do 2:3 pulldown or output at 48Hz (Fps) which is only 2x or (24Fps x 2 = 48Fps/Hz) but that can produce flicker. BTW, when they show film in theaters they do 48Fps but being analog and not digital there is not as much flicker. On the G10/15 series I recommend using 2:3 pulldown as this effect is HOW you have been watching movies on your TVs for decades. Having an even multiple of 24Fps refresh rate (Hz=Fps) eliminates the judder and slow pans with the camera can show some judder (studdering of movement) but again we have been looking at this like this with films for decades now so our brains mostly ignore this now.
Here is a layman's way of explaining how 2:3 pulldown works. Because 60Hz (Fps) is not divisible by 24 evenly they needed a way to convert film frame rates into the frame rate TVs in the USA have which is 60Hz. How they do it is by:
Repeating the first frame twice then repeating the next frame 3x, then repeating the 3rd frame 2x, and then the next frame 3x, and so on. So it repeats each frame like this; 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3 for the first 10 frames and repeats this each time throughout the movie.
The V10 series having a 96Hz mode when it sees a 24Fps signal just repeats each frame like this; 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 for the first 10 frames and repeats this each time throughout the movie.
No question 96Hz is better than using 2:3 pulldown or only doing 48Hz (Fps), but is it worth $500.00 more for it? There are other things that make the V10 better like better color controls, etc also, but that is a question each individual will have to make.
Hope this helps to explain this.
PS. See the sticky I created just now to explain this and I made it a sticky so it is easy to find/read since it is a frequent question here:
The V10 series has a 96Hz refresh mode for 24Fps content so it handles 24Fps film content by repeating the exact same fram 4x (24Fps x 4 = 96Fps/96Hz). The G10/15 series can either do 2:3 pulldown or output at 48Hz (Fps) which is only 2x or (24Fps x 2 = 48Fps/Hz) but that can produce flicker. BTW, when they show film in theaters they do 48Fps but being analog and not digital there is not as much flicker. On the G10/15 series I recommend using 2:3 pulldown as this effect is HOW you have been watching movies on your TVs for decades. Having an even multiple of 24Fps refresh rate (Hz=Fps) eliminates the judder and slow pans with the camera can show some judder (studdering of movement) but again we have been looking at this like this with films for decades now so our brains mostly ignore this now.
Here is a layman's way of explaining how 2:3 pulldown works. Because 60Hz (Fps) is not divisible by 24 evenly they needed a way to convert film frame rates into the frame rate TVs in the USA have which is 60Hz. How they do it is by:
Repeating the first frame twice then repeating the next frame 3x, then repeating the 3rd frame 2x, and then the next frame 3x, and so on. So it repeats each frame like this; 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3 for the first 10 frames and repeats this each time throughout the movie.
The V10 series having a 96Hz mode when it sees a 24Fps signal just repeats each frame like this; 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 for the first 10 frames and repeats this each time throughout the movie.
No question 96Hz is better than using 2:3 pulldown or only doing 48Hz (Fps), but is it worth $500.00 more for it? There are other things that make the V10 better like better color controls, etc also, but that is a question each individual will have to make.
Hope this helps to explain this.
PS. See the sticky I created just now to explain this and I made it a sticky so it is easy to find/read since it is a frequent question here:
Thanks, that definitely clears it up for me. Now this next question might sound a bit ridiculous, but where can you find these outputs listed under the specs for the tv? For example, when I look under the specs for the G10 or the V10 (or the S1 or C1) they all say "600 Hz" but neither list a 96Hz or 48Hz refresh mode.
PFC5
11-05-2009, 05:11 PM
For the V10 it says it on the overview tab for each model here:
24p Cinematic Playback VIERA recreates the unique atmosphere of movie images. Enjoy cinema quality in your own home. The images that are recorded onto movie film at 24 frames per second (fps) are reproduced at four times that speed by 24p Cinematic Playback. This achieves film like reproduction than 2:3 pull down method.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/images/Content/hpq05_image01.gif
For the G10/15 series they do not really state anything about the 48Hz mode but due mention 2:3 pulldown under the specs. The V10 mentions 24p Cinematic Playback in the specs page which IS that 4x repeating frames stated above. ;)
(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:displayTermWithID%28%2716682%27%29;)
