Lebanon, Va reception

Hello, I am new here of course and seeking advice on an antenna.
My first and main goal is to achieve quality FM reception from call sign WQUT in JC TN (classic rock).
After searching the net I see that many antennas also receive OTA A/D TV and FM.
So, if I have to mount and ground an outdoor antenna, why not just get all at the same time, but not so easy as it sounds.
I currently have satellite TV w/ local channels so the air TV reception is just for emergency in case satellite is out, storms, national disaster, ball games (joke), etc.
Google Earth says I am about 30 mile from the main towers (my measurement) but newest tvfool info does not agree.
I will be using the atcs input on Dish 322 receiver and mounting on roof/chimney approx 20 ft from ground.
I have looked at :
Terk HDTVO
AntennasDirect C4
Free Vision Ultra Compact Indoor or Outdoor UHF/VHF HDTV Antenna
Philips Outdoor HDTV Digital Antenna SDV4400/27
& also many at solid signal and and other retailers.
Only one important TV channel is in low VHF (5) and I understand FM is somewhere in 5,6,7, range so I guess FM trap is needed.
tvfool link: will be added after I have 5 post "sorry"
zip is 24266


As you can guess I would like the smallest rooftop antenna possible to achieve goals, these 110" +
antennas may not withstand the wind in my location for long plus the ease of installation with a smaller unit , but some of these gizmo antennas seem questionable.
Especially after reading the post here and other forums.
ebay gizmos are quite funny reading but hate to waste the money and feel dumb buying one.
So, anyway, what make the best common sense decision under around $100.00.
thanks in advance for any and all input
doccbst

Welcome to the forum doccbst! :)

You are correct in assuming "these gizmo antennas seem questionable" - there are no free rides when it comes to reception.;)

That being said you are sort of setting up some conflicts however; You want VHF-Low ch 5 but you don't want anything large - if you are to receive frequencies that low you will need a large antenna.

You also want FM out of the one antenna, and you are correct FM band is between ch 6 and ch 7, but if you use an FM trap these freq's will be filtered out... But looking at that tvfool it looks like you will need all the help you can get, and you won't want FM getting in the way anyhow - just get a separate FM antenna.

And you want it all for under $100?
Quite the tall order!

And apparently you didn't read my post:
http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception/102565-recommendations-when-posting-advice.html

Here is your generic zip tvfool:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8adfe569c504f0

And you had better hope your exact address looks a little better! :D

Oh, yea, I need help this stuff is confusing for me, the more I learn the more confused I get
Sorry about the glitch on tv fool, I tried several ways but still wouldn't let me post partial link, this is exact long lat coordinates
maybe:
takingouthttpwwwtvfoolcom/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8adf5b7a895a61

If low vhf needed is channel 5 (Bristol local news nbc) will FM trap affect that since trap is 6 - 7.
As far as regular use goes, the PBS channels are desirable and only top 7-8 on tvfool list matter. Most are uhf except 5 & ll cbs, nbc.
From what I can tell if I can pick up ch 5 the rest is gravy with uhf/vhf combo.
If need separate fm ( see above) can I mount on same mast as TV and what would be the smallest "real" antenna feasible, would the phillips SDV4400/27 work ? or do I need a 110" ? ex Winegard HD 7084P, or what would be best value large fringe, blue (smallest large) antenna.
OK, now I'm confused again.
thanks,
doccbst

Ya done good!
Here is your tvfool link:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8adf5b7a895a61

You need a large antenna for your Low-VHF ch5
A 7084 or (dare I say it) an 8200U (JB where are you??? This is actually a legitimate application!!! :D) would be all purpose and cover you all the way up into UHF with one antenna.

To say From what I can tell if I can pick up ch 5 the rest is gravy with uhf/vhf combo.
is not an accurate statement. Once you get down to single digit NM numbers (this is the signal available in the air at your location, and you need to keep this in the positive at the tuner to [theoretically] receive the signal) things become difficult. And once you get to negitive double digits you're really pushing things, and will need lots of antenna gain, lots of antenna height, and a low noise preamp - none of which is in your $100 budget. EDIT: Not to mention you have different aims going on, which would require a rotor - JB this is your dream thread!!! :D)

It looks like you're a poster child for cable or satellite.;)
Lets see what others have to say...

I'm here - but the 8200U will not work for his situation.

Lebanon VA - way south of Roanoke / Blacksburgh

Your stations are coming out of Johnson City Tenn.

As you can see from the report, it is dismal at best.

A guy in Gastonia NC once gave me directions to a race track in Lancaster SC. He said something about - it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there!


Basically, if you could live without NBC - Channel 5, you could get away with a XG 91 antenna and pre amp. That would give you the bulk of the other channels in the list that are in the green and pink. The problem there is - the CW is broadcast out of Channel 5 so you would actually be loosing two stations and not just one.

Even then you are looking at spending $200 by the time you buy the pre amp and the antenna and a roll of new RG 6 wire.


You can kind of see the picture in the Transmitter Profile map, but even that does not do it justice. WLFG has to go over one really tall mountain and then down into a valley extremely deep where the hopes of reliable reception is next to nothing. Probably the same reason that Satellite dish is the State Flower in West Virginia.

It's one situation where the XG 91 with a tilt and a pre amplifier with a very low noise factor works best.

The same holds true if the op wanted to get digital FM radio out of the station he wishes to receive. As long as it is analog and comes in - he is ok. But as soon as they switch to all digital - it will probably fall out and be gone. The good news is - the radio stations are not forced to switch to digital anytime soon and so there is no rush to do it. The only reason for doing it would be to dominate a certain frequency, because once you occupy that frequency - as long as your signal does not interfere with other radio stations analog signal, you are ok. But the trick is - to get yours working first so their digital signal cannot interfere with your digital signal.

Kind of like being the first person at the lake on the opening day of fishing season. You get first dibs where you want to cast your line or where you want to stand.

The XG 91 can be had for under $100

The VHF signals can be received with any large VHF antenna, might I suggest you buy a used Radio Shack VU 190 and connect it to a combiner and use no pre amp.

The combiner is probably $5 and that would get you back in the $200 range but would not give you the best performance.

The only station I would be interested in getting would be WKPT - because then you would have ABC, My Network and RTV all on the same channel! If you didn't have a dish, you could work out a deal where you and some of your friends could go together and put up a repeater of your own that would broadcast it into your area.

The station might actually offer to pay the electric bill if you paid to put it up and maintain the transmitter site.

The translators would have to be located somewhere in the area of Bristol in order for it to work.

Fat chance of getting the TV stations to put them up on their own - to service a couple of customers north of the border.

1. How is it an 8200 won't work for him?
'Splain it to me...

2. You better look again JB, there is no green on that report...

3. At a 5.3dB NM I doubt he'll ever get CBS ch11 with a 91XG...

4. What about his differing aims? With the "dismal" signal strengths and that wide a spread I don't think he has a shot w/o a rotor - he wants his PBS's...

5. Again, with those dismal signals I think he's going to need a preamp...

6. Is it possible he uses a dipole cut for ch 5 on a fixed aim, and a VHF-High / UHF combo, poss a 7696, '97, '98 on a rotor and bring them together with a splitter in reverse?

Cost???

The very first reason why not is due to the fact that he only wants to spend around $100 and a 8200U antenna will cost him around $156 delivered to his front door. Add another $78 for the 7777 and you are up to $230 Then add $40 for wire and you are up to $270, then add $10 for terminals and a ground block and you are up to $280.

Then add $50 for a antenna mount and you are up to $320

Add a ground stake and some 8 awg ground wire and you are probably looking at $350

The guy only wants to spend around $100!

The XG 91 - is a better choice because it has a better front to back and it will be a more directional antenna. The XG 91 is $72 at Solid signal, delivered to his front door.

He is going to need a antenna that can be tilted up to get the best performance and the only way you are going to tilt a 8200U antenna is if you redrill the holes in the boom. Which if he has high winds like he is saying - the mast pole will bend anyways.

The XG 91 is a stealth antenna compared to the 8200U

I am not a big fan of Channel Master antenna's but a CM 3020 would also work for what he wants to do. Price tag $84 at Solid Signal.

It would pick up both the UHF and the VHF and the radio signal he is looking for.

Yes he needs a rotor, but I will let him find that out on his own.

WLFG = The religious station is only 6.4 miles away, even though it is only 29 Kw, still should be strong enough to be received without a pre amplifier.

He already said he wants to receive FM radio, so a FM trap turned on would be out of the question, at the same time there is probably other radio stations in his area that has a strong signal that would interfere with his channel 5 signal. There is still going to be a lot of nulls and voids when the signal coming from the south has to go through a bunch of mountains and valley's.

WJHL - Channel 11 - at 28.4 kw should be very do able at his location.

Hey, thanks for all the educated input.
I am becoming more informed and actually learning something.
In all this I should reiterate, I do already have a satellite TV system so the OTA TV reception is just a "why not" or "just in case"to go along with quality FM reception, which i don't have now.
I had looked at the 91XG but specs say UHF ? will that pick up FM ? (101.5)
and the channel master CM 3020 while affordable is Huge 152.25" by 95", our winds often hit 50 -60 mph so I'm wondering repetitive about wind shear.
Part of this is because we are on a hill which will hopefully minimize the need to angle the antenna.
Concerning the rotor The main network abc, nbc ,abc, channels are basically in line so a directional with 30 -40 degree arc would maybe pick up all if any.
If needed i could always add a rotor later if any of this actually works.
Going by miles it seems there are a few other near fringe, long range antennas somewhat smaller that might have reception but then again that's why I am here, because I am clueless and advertised specs don't always apply.
thanks
doccbst

An effort to comply to 5 post rule so I can post a few images.
The FM trap is needed because of close proximity to ch 5
I suppose.
My reasoning and wiring is this. I may (probably am) be wrong.
Combo uhf/vhf/fm antenna>>75 ohm connector/converter>>> grounded/RJ6 cable to
amp/splitter} >>>>>>>>>>To Bose FM Radio (40 ft)
amp/splitter}>>>>>>>>>>To HT FM Radio (60ft)
v
v >FM Trap........To Satellite ATSC DTV antenna input>>>>TV (60ft)
doccbst

Winegard HD 7082P or CM 3020 ? they are close in price and worth a shot to at least get me FM. Will probably go 15 - 20 ft mast using chimney mount will equal 30-40ft above ground level.

http://yfrog.com/04tvfoolj

http://yfrog.com/5otvfool2j

http://yfrog.com/betopodoccbstj
thanks again for all input
doccbst

Winegard HD 7082P or CM 3020 ? they are close in price and worth a shot to at least get me FM.

I'd endorse the selection of the HD7082P. I wouldn't use an FM trap, there should be no issue with the combination of channel 5 and FM.

I'd endorse the selection of the HD7082P. I wouldn't use an FM trap, there should be no issue with the combination of channel 5 and FM.

I'll second that motion.
A 7082 is $7 cheaper (delivered) & a little shorter than a 7084, and has a bit less gain... Tuff call.
And FM will step on ch 6, but I too think 5 would be fine.

JB, we must first acknowledge that with his situation the OP is not going to get OTA for under his $100 budget mark. So to say an antenna "won't work for him" because of this reason is silly - as you illustrated, NO antenna is going to work for him if we constrain the recommendations to a $100 install...

The question was: What is the lowest priced antenna that will serve his situation best. I was asking you because you seem to be knowledgeable with the strengths of the 8200, and whether it would be the antenna of choice for him.

And while I could be wrong here, I still think he's going to need an amp & rotor to get all that's possibly avail to him in the air.

Will probably go 15 - 20 ft mast using chimney mount will equal 30-40ft above ground level.

I would stay to a 10' mast, or add guy wires if you want to go this high.
BTW, 1-1/4" x 10' galvanized electrical conduit (~1-1/2" O.D.) is <$10 @ HD/Lowe's.:) When you play with the exact heights on tvfool (at your exact location) does it show significant improvement for the height difference? (You get little on a generic zip, again a tuff call for the extra $$$ invested.)