Another antenna suggestion question

Hello! I came across this forum and i thought you might be able to help me... I have a cottage in Vt. with an old antenna with a rotator & LCD tv. i do get a some channels (4) but i get alot of freezing and stuff.
the antenna needs replacing (missing parts) and the coax is longer than it needs to be. antenna will be about 15 ft from the ground and there is a big hill, about 50 ft, to the west directly behind the house.
here is the tvfool report (i hope i did this right)
/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8adff221c13f59
i have had a couple of recommendations.

Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4
Winegard HD 7082P
Winegard HD7698P (this is HUGE! 168" long) Any others?
I don't want to spent too much $ but i know, you get what you pay for...
any help would be appreciated! Thanks
Gary

Hello Gary,

Welcome to the forum! :)

Here is the link to your tvfool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8adff221c13f59

The Winegard 769x antenna is ideal for your situation. But, you're correct, the 7698 is quite a monster in size. The alternative is to use two antennas such as the XG-91 for UHF and Winegard 1713 for VHF. Put the XG-91 on top and the 1713 below (3 to 5 feet). Join the antennas with a USVJ joiner or use a pre-amp that allows separate UHF/VHF inputs. Aim the antenna to the southwest (243 degrees, compass heading).

How many feet of cable run is in your tv distribution system? How many splitters? Are there tall trees nearby the home, particularly to the southwest? If possible try to site the antenna so it can aim through bare spot in the trees or at least have only a minimal amount of branches in the way.

HTH,

Rick

Thanks for the quick reply Rick!
there is only one tv (no splits) but there is extra cable in the crawlspace... i don't know how much, way more than needed! i expect to keep it to a min. it will be 30-50 feet. thanks again! Gary

If the last couple of hundred yards don't kill your signal, you have enough margin so that you don't need an extreme fringe setup.

A 4-bay bowtie or mid-range UHF Yagi would do fine for the UHF channels and a mid-range high-V antenna should work. DB4 or 42XG plus a Y5-7-13 or C5 would work as separates. You could go with an AC HBU33 or HBU44 in a single unit.

Winegard HD7694P should be enough to pull in the top 5 channels solidly.

Make sure your extra cable in the attic is not coiled or it creates an RF choke that actually attenuates signal.

There is 8 gettable channels.

The problem with the XG 91 solution is that it will not dig down below channel 20 and so you would loose the channel 13 option - with one stand alone antenna.

I don't think that you would want to loose ABC

The Winegard 7698 would probably be the best solution due to the challenges between the homeowner and the transmitter.

By using a larger antenna, you might be able to get away from having to use some type of pre amp. No distribution amp would be necessary since he was only powering one television and his run was fairly short - 35'

The antenna rotor is still a must, because you have signals from 3 different directions and the best your antenna will probably receive will be 120* from the center of the channel for any one channel 20+ miles away.

The same situation as always in VT where the transmitter is up on a mountain and has to shine down into the valley below. The closer you are to the transmitter, the poorer the signal becomes.

At 110 kw, CBFT will be a long haul at best on channel 2 at 76 miles...

Another case where a 8200U might work better if you wanted to receive that channel...

Hello Gary,
IMO you have a couple of choices.

1. Since you would like to keep the size down I would say forget about CBFT ch 2 & CBMT 6. This leaves you with VHF-High & UHF to conquer.

I would agree with Rick that a 91XG for UHF is the way to go over a bowtie design - with "a big hill, about 50 ft, to the west directly behind the house" and the main transmissions coming from the s/w, I suspect you may have some multipath and the tighter beamwidth of the 91XG will help you with this issue.

Married to the YA-1713 for VHF-High and a CM7777 preamp with your rotor will probably give you the best shot at being able to spin around and get ch 18 and some of the lower lever analogs in your report. (Although a UVSJ and a lower gain preamp may be used, as you don't have large dist losses to deal with - once you eliminate the excess cable)

2. Since you also "don't want to spent too much $" you could go with the 7694 and probably have success with your top 5 @ 228 deg aim, as Jim suggests.

This is definitely a situation that only you can decide. It may be a case of diminishing returns, and you have to do some research and see what programming is avail on the more difficult stations to determine if it is worth it to go for all you can...

GOOD LUCK!

I would agree with Rick that a 91XG for UHF is the way to go over a bowtie design - with [B][I]"a big hill, about 50 ft, to the west directly behind the house

I've got many big hills and lots of multipath and here the DB8 does considerably better then the 91XG on the upper UHF channels and about the same on the lower. My Winegard 9032 a bit worse than both.

Yes, mine is one anecdotal report - but the Yagi 91XG certainly isn't always better in such conditions then a bowtie. I wish I'd started with the DB8, but instead installed it last. That because first . . . an Albany TV commincations engineer told me the 9032 is the best UHF antenna for this hilly area, and then second . . . I read many claims about the 91XG being the best for overal UHF, and then third . . . the DB8 simply because it was something different to try.

thank you all for all your advice! this is just a cottage, pretty much weekend use.
i would be very happy to get the top 5 and with the very cheap,broken antenna that is there, i get a canadian channel that is almost good enough to watch... great hunting and fishing shows also CBS&NBC digital with some glitches, if i pick up 1 or 2 more without the glitches i will be happy enough!. and unless someone tells me i'm making a big mistake, i think i'll go with either AC HBU44 or winegard HD7695. thanks again!Gary

I've got many big hills and lots of multipath and here the DB8 does considerably better then the 91XG on the upper UHF channels and about the same on the lower . . . an Albany TV commincations engineer told me the 9032 is the best UHF antenna for this hilly area, and then second . . . I read many claims about the 91XG being the best for overal UHF ...

I hear what you're saying, but like the TV engineer we have to start with something - and that something is that a Yagi with a corner reflector has a narrower beamwidth than a Bowtie design, therefore [theoretically] making it less susceptible to picking up reflected signals off aim.

Of course what actually happens in the real world is often a very different thing, as your experience attests to...;)

thank you all for all your advice! this is just a cottage, pretty much weekend use.
i would be very happy to get the top 5 and with the very cheap,broken antenna that is there, i get a canadian channel that is almost good enough to watch... great hunting and fishing shows also CBS&NBC digital with some glitches, if i pick up 1 or 2 more without the glitches i will be happy enough!. and unless someone tells me i'm making a big mistake, i think i'll go with either AC HBU44 or winegard HD7695. thanks again!Gary
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I only count five easily gettable channels, and even with the existing broken down junk, our OP reports getting four with some drop out problems.

Then the OP reports a hill to the due West, when his main group of channels are only 42 degrees off that heading. Unless the hill is rather "skinny", it implies the need for some more mast height.

But if someone else counts eight gettable channels, they must be counting analogs, and I assume the Canadian station our OP mumbles about wanting is one of those analogs. But which one and at what heading? Some of the analogs are on VHF and some are on UHF, all are fairly weak, and as such require almost exact antenna aim to get required gain. And therein lies the rub, the OP best main aim is 228 degrees which will be way way off main aim for the desired Canadian station. So now we may be talking an antenna rotor or a multiple antenna set up. And we have yet to consider the question of amplification or replacing the existing coax.

As a dedicated cheap skate, I have to note this is rapidly getting away from CHEAP. But were it me, I might try the following strategy. (1) Buy a 7694 antenna, the minimum required length of outdoor RG-6 coax, point it at 228 degrees, and hope to get that set of channels with no drop off. Failing that, add either antenna height or amplification to achieve that no drop off state. (2) Especially if the desired Canadian Station is VHF, try to reuse the existing antenna and existing coax pointed at the Canadian station, and go a signal combiner or a a/b switch. If the Canadian station is UHF and analog, one might consider a home built bow tie or a cheap UHF antenna if the existing one will not pull it in.

And no matter what you do, remember to ground your antenna(s)

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But if someone else counts eight gettable channels, they must be counting analogs, and I assume the Canadian station our OP mumbles about wanting is one of those analogs.


Going by your TV Fool report, I assume you live in the same area I used to live in, i.e. Northeast Kingdom in the Green Montains, not very far from the big international lake at Newport Center. I lived in the little town of Albany, not far from Barton, when working for a maple syrup producer. Got several analog Canadian TV stations at the time (around 1976). All came from my favorite hangout (for girl chasing) at Sherbrooke, Québec.

If you had a big antenna, and a decent preamp, you'd probably get many Canadian analog channels. UHF will be more iffy. I've got a Winegard HD8200 about 80 miles from the Canadian border and get many Canadian TV stations from CTV and CBC. Mostly analog. Some are 140 miles away from my antenna. In your case, Sherbrooke is probably around 70-80 miles? And Montréal a bit further.

You've got many Canadian TV stations transmitting from Montréal and Sherbrooke. The Sherbrooke stations should be pretty strong unless you've got one of those green mountains directly in your way.
It's likely that you can get several from Montréal as well. With the Sherbrooke TV, I'm sure some with be in "bad French", as my grandmother used to call it. The locals seem to frown on English, even if they are fluent in it. But, the Canadian government, I think forces them to use English to some degree.

I don't know if you care , but here are some possible channels for your area. In my case, any time I've gone cheap with an antenna, I've always been sorry later and upgraded. If I were use, I would absolutely be using a high-gain preamp. It can make a night-and-day difference for your area. It can be $30 well spent.

CBFT French TV Montreal 2 analog and 19 digital, 100KW and 250 KW

CBMT, Montreal 6 analog VHF and 20 digital UHF 100KW

CFCF Montreal 12 analog and 21 digital 325 KW

CFJP Montreal 35 analog and 42 digital, 700 KW and 14 KW

CTFM Montreal 10 analog, 59 UHF 325 KW

CFTU Montreal 29 analog, 54 UHF 10KW

CKMI-TV1 Montreal, analog 46, 33 KW

CIVM Montreal and Sherbrooke , French “PBS”, 17 and 24 analog

CHLT Sherbrooke 7 analog and 50 digital, 300KW

CKSH Sherbrooke 9 analog