EXPERTS-Please help convince husband plasma over LCD

We are looking to replace our 50" Toshiba RPT. After all my research I suggested the 54 " Pansonic V10 or G10 plasma as the best choices to my husband. He went to the best buy and sears and came back saying that the Samsung LCD's had alot better picture and he didn't see any difference in loss of viewing angle and that he didn't understand why the store's lighting would have any difference in making the picture better on the LCD. I know you guys like to generally stick together but from my reading here I think you'll agree with me. Please explain the store lighting thing better and anything else that might help convince a stubborn man.

Your husbands name would not be Tom would it? And does he work at Sears???:D


What is the lighting going to be like in your room. Unless your room will be quite bright for the most part, that will change once you get it home. In a "real" type setting.

Some of the cons with LED Samsung TV's from Cnet and others about the 6000-7000 series.

Cons: Expensive; less-uniform screen than other LCDs; poor off-angle viewing; backlight fluctuates with program brightness; dark areas tinged bluer; shiny screen can cause reflections in bright rooms; red frame isn't for everyone.

But still a very nice set if the room is rite for it. But too dang overpriced at the moment IMO.

This is what I thought too. When I went to buy a new TV 3 weeks ago the LCDs looked awesome in the store. The Samsung LED/LCD looked really good and for some reason the LEDs looked fine off angle. The picture didn't wash out or anything. I don't know why this is. After buying my Samsung 558000 LED it got delivered and everything changed. The picture quality was really good but you can move at all off angle. I mean one seat on your couch over and the picture starts to get washed out. I was really disappointed. Also the blur with the LCD, even the 240hz of the Samsungs, was to much for me. SD channels the 240hz reduction caused all kinds of strange things to happen with the picture. I returned the LCD after two weeks and switched for the Panasonic 54V10. I'm am much happier with it. There is no blur and I can sit just about 90 degrees from it and the picture looks the same. It was also cheaper. I would recommend the plasma.

nope - he's a Greg, not a Tom and works in the battery business. This is just the type of thing I need to print out for him. We watch TV and movies mainly in the evening, normal living room light conditions, no gaming. Just 2 50 year olds who like a great picture - he sits in front of TV - my main seat is in recliner at about 40 degree angle. And of course he likes sports and would like to impress friends at our annual super bowl party.

The first thing to know is that when tv's leave the factory they are shipped in what is lovingly known as 'torch mode' where the contrast and brightness are artificially incredibly high. This is so that each manufacturer can try and draw attention to their set thereby getting noticed and purchased. On many tv's leaving the tv in torch mode drastically reduces the lifespan of the tv (virtually all phosphour based displays). That coupled with the large amount of fluorescent lighting which is drastically different than most viewing areas makes a big difference in the display at home vs. the showroom. When brought home it is highly reccomended to get a calibration disc and properly set the contrast, brightness, color, etc to as close to a proper d6500k scale with proper grayscale. If not at least a quick calibration with a THX optimizer found on many dvd's is reccomended.
Getting back to Plasma vs LCD the common consensus is that plasma gives a truer picture with much darker ('inky') blacks than LVD which gives dark greys. The colors also tend to be less 'artificial' or 'cartoony' looking. Also Plasma tv's do not suffer from viewing angle issues as many LCD sets do. Motion blur is a non-issue and response time is not an issue with plasma as it can be with LCD. Also the glass front of a Plasma TV is much more durable and damage resistant than virtually any lcd. Half life of a plasma is roughly 100,000 hrs at which it will be half as bright as it initially was and that is well beyond how long many consumers will have that tv in their house (10-15 yrs average viewing time). Plasmas are also typically cheaper at the same size by a sizable dollar amount. Image retention can be an isuue with Plasma sets (this is different than Burn In which is mainly a thing of the past) where faint ghost iamges can be visible usually on a blank screen but this is temporary and easily fixable - many Tv's and the Panny Plasmas that you mentioned have ppixel orbiters and white sweeps to rid any Image retention although I have never noticed any with mine. If you have lots of light or direct sunlight falling on the TV glare can be an issue with Plasma while matte LCD screens are much less affected. In dim/ darker lighting (evening time or if light control is able) Plasmas really shine. The new Panasonic Pasmas are also much more energy efficient than in past and with proper calibration there isn't much difference in energy costs between them or LCD. Typically Plasmas should have a break-in period where minimal to no 'Black Bar' programs should be shown but break in dvds that can do this for you if let run continuously.

Go to a high end showroom where sets are calibrated or Magnolia section of Bestbuy if you have a Magnolia store near you. You will be surprised at how much different all sets look than in the box store showrooms.

I bought Panasonic Plasma as my main TV ( I also have two smaller lcd's in bedroom and reading room) and have not regretted it for a second. Owning both my plasma blows away my lcd's and if they were available in smaller sizes I wouldn't own lcds at all.When I had a problem (which turned out not to be Panasonic's fault but they fixed it anyway) their concierge service was fantastic and an in home repair was made fast and professionally.


Excerpt from another thread:
LCD
Pros

lightweight, smaller screen sizes available, good in brightly lit rooms, considered safer when used as a computer monitor, non glare matte screens...Maybe slightly more energy efficient unless the majority of your viewing habits are movies, no break in period, take less consideration to set up and use.

Cons

Glare will still be a consideration if buying a high end LCD/LED as these also use glass screens to render better blacks and higher contrast ratios, cost more than larger Plasma esp the high end sets, more likely to be damaged as the plastic matte screens are not resistant to even small impacts, shorter life span backlight will eventually need to be replaced, Plasma will dim over time but will still be functioning long after the LCD is in the trash bid, viewing angles even with the new LED/LCD off axis viewing is still a large concern (fighting for that sweet spot directly in front of the screen), motion blur with fast moving images even with 240 hz processing is way behind the the speed of Plasma. Black level detail while LCD is getting better at producing black level the fine detail contained in these darker images is lost. Unnatural color processing in the non high end sets life like skin tones are nearly impossible to attain. 240 hz processing causes film to appear as though shot in video ( I can't imagine watching the "Godfather" and having it appear as if it is a soap opera)

PLASMA
Pros

Large screen size virtually no screens less than 42" in size. Deep black levels and fine dark area detail. Good natural color processing with great skin tone reproduction. Long time investment although plasma will dim over time it will take around 100,000 of use to get to half life of the panel. Durable heavy glass screens are much more injury proof than the LCD matte screens (Dont believe it? you can punch a hole in the LCD matte screen with your finger!) Virtually no motion blur image processing is approximatly 1000 times faster than LCD. Off axis viewing is a non issue with plasma ( no fighting for the sweet spot) Cost less a good 50" plasma will be cheaper than a 46" 1st tier manufactured LCD. Actually can be more energy efficient if properly calibrated.

Cons

Glass screens have glare issues in brightly lit rooms. Burn in plasma can still suffer from this problem, static images for long periods of time can be damaging (neglect from the consumer is the major contributing factor here) Weight heavier than the matte screen LCD because of the additional weight of the glass. Large size only available in 42" or larger (not good if space is a concern) Break-in period for proper aging of the plasma cells this is still strongly recommended during the first 200 hours of use. (some videophiles consider this a perk kinda like pampering your new "baby")

Well there you have it hope this highlights the good and bad points of each technology for current and future owners of HDTV

Follow the link to the LCD-Plasma Shootout and print out the information. Pay close attention to the pictures of the viewing angles in Fig. 6.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm

jkkyler pretty much said everything that can be said why you should seriously consider plasma, so I'll give you my personal experience. First look at my signature, :lol:. I watch a lot of programing that deals with space being the environment and must say this is where plasma is king, when watching my new favorite show SGU or Stargate Universe on my new Samsung B750 seies LCD I notice when looking at all the stars it's not quite black inbetween each star.

The area around each star lights up that area of the screen crushing the black levels, this is called "bleed through" and all LCDs suffer from this problem. Plasma on the other hand doesn't suffer from this problem, plasma is inky black inbetween each star! The Panasonic V10 is the best display out there that offers so much for less than a comparable size LCD, the Panny V10 is a very hot item right now. LCDs sell well in ultra bright showrooms, but in the home that's where plasma is king!

I'm not to happy with SGU.

Every week something happens and they are all going to die. Doom and gloom every week so far. :rolleyes:

The super-genius with the attitude problem is pretty annoying. At the end last week they were all glad to still be alive and he was like - Yeah, whatever, we're still stuck on this ship.

I know it's only been a few weeks, but come on.

.... He went to the best buy and sears and came back saying that the Samsung LCD's had alot better picture and he didn't see any difference in loss of viewing angle and that he didn't understand why the store's lighting would have any difference in making the picture better on the LCD.

LCDs do better under bright lighting conditions. It's what they were mainly made for, desktop PC in the office. I have an LCD in a room which during the day gets a ton of sunlight, mainly reflected light.

Getting floressent backlights to dim is tricky to say the least, thus something designed for bright light conditions isn't going to perform as well under normal house conditions.

It's next to impossible to get a true black using a technology that requires a singular big ass light shining behind it. LCDs look black enough in daylight conditions, but look grey under darker conditions.

LCDs are also awesome at close range, which again when I'm editing in photoshop with in 5 feet of my 52 inch screen, this is a strong point of LCD.

But what works for close range doesn't work as well for real life images from a distance. This is plasma's strong point. Discrete colors, shadow detail. Not to speak of action. In all the important areas of media watching, plasma is tops.

Now I didn't actually go plasma because I have basically a sun room, and it doubles as a PC monitor. I do presentations in the day. For my application LCD was the better bet.







I know you guys like to generally stick together but from my reading here I think you'll agree with me. Please explain the store lighting thing better and anything else that might help convince a stubborn man.[/quote]

Follow the link to the LCD-Plasma Shootout and print out the information. Pay close attention to the pictures of the viewing angles in Fig. 6.
http://www.tracker-analytics.com/track/img/3358/s09v0317fvxp/00.gif
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm

Thanks for the link. Not my thread but very useful information for me as well. :yippee:

THANK YOU ALL SOOOO MUCH! I printed your replies and after reading he said OK - we'll go with the plasma. Yea! And the V10. Now if I can only talk him into the 58" instead of the 54". :yippee:
I greatly appreciate everyone who took the time to answer - I was getting nowhere on my own.

Now if I can only talk him into the 58" instead of the 54". :yippee:


WOW! Dream wife.....I think I'm in love.............;)

THANK YOU ALL SOOOO MUCH! I printed your replies and after reading he said OK - we'll go with the plasma. Yea! And the V10. Now if I can only talk him into the 58" instead of the 54". :yippee:
I greatly appreciate everyone who took the time to answer - I was getting nowhere on my own.


What you can do is try to get the sales guy to give you the 58" at a discounted price.. I was able to do that the other week got a 46" for 20 bucks more than the 42" was.

WOW! Dream wife.....I think I'm in love.............;)

I wish my wife was pushing me to get a bigger plasma, come to think of it I don't have a wife! :lol:

We are glad we could help, both of you have made a good choice that will forever change your life viewing via plasma! :yippee:

I see where the 54" G10 will be one of Sears Black Friday deals for $1499 but it doesn't look like they carry the V10. I'm hoping Best Buy or someone will have the 58" V10 on sale then. On second thought, maybe I don't! - who wants to stand in THAT line! And yes! I AM A DREAM WIFE!

I see where the 54" G10 will be one of Sears Black Friday deals for $1499 but it doesn't look like they carry the V10. I'm hoping Best Buy or someone will have the 58" V10 on sale then. On second thought, maybe I don't! - who wants to stand in THAT line! And yes! I AM A DREAM WIFE!

How far away will you be sitting from your display?

Just measured - 11 to 14 feet depending upon where you are sitting in room.

Just measured - 11 to 14 feet depending upon where you are sitting in room.

I think 54" is the smallest you should go for both those distances, I'm sitting almost 10 feet away from my 52". I originally purchased the 46" B750 LCD and found myself leaning forward, so I went 52" and haven't looked back since! :D

The 58" would be your best option, but does increase the price. I guess you only live once.

Well it looks like it would be about 300-400 more for the 58" instead of the 54" which doesn't seem much over the time you would have the TV and the "larger" enjoyment you get during that time. At least that is my reasoning . :D 54" just doesn't seem like much larger than our 50" we have now. I guess it will come down to which one will be sale priced enough to sway hubby that direction. The room is large so could definitely handle it.

I almost went with a 50"but I'm glad I bought the 58 it's much larger then the 50. I sit at 11'. Perfect for me at that distance. Mine is the Panasonic 58-800u. Good luck!

Well it looks like it would be about 300-400 more for the 58" instead of the 54" which doesn't seem much over the time you would have the TV and the "larger" enjoyment you get during that time... . The room is large so could definitely handle it.

I went 52 inch and an articulating mount for a similar distance. I "would have" gone larger but it wasn't in the budget. The monoprice mount cuts the distance by about 20 inches and was a heck of a lot cheaper than going 58.

Well it looks like it would be about 300-400 more for the 58" instead of the 54" which doesn't seem much over the time you would have the TV and the "larger" enjoyment you get during that time. At least that is my reasoning . :D 54" just doesn't seem like much larger than our 50" we have now. I guess it will come down to which one will be sale priced enough to sway hubby that direction. The room is large so could definitely handle it.

Trust you instincts, they have brought you this far! $300-$400 dollars isn't that much considering the enjoyment you'll get from watching HD, we spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on DVDs and Blu-ray movies, why not make the most of it!

THANK YOU ALL SOOOO MUCH! I printed your replies and after reading he said OK - we'll go with the plasma. Yea! And the V10. Now if I can only talk him into the 58" instead of the 54". :yippee:
I greatly appreciate everyone who took the time to answer - I was getting nowhere on my own.

While I love my plasma I'm not sure were right to change his mind. You never said your opinion, did you look at both types or did you just read here on the forums and decide that because we like Plasma then you will too? You do understand that if anything goes wrong or he doesn't like it it'll be your fault, right (not that I would wish that on anyone)?

This is what I thought too. When I went to buy a new TV 3 weeks ago the LCDs looked awesome in the store. The Samsung LED/LCD looked really good and for some reason the LEDs looked fine off angle. The picture didn't wash out or anything. I don't know why this is. After buying my Samsung 558000 LED it got delivered and everything changed. The picture quality was really good but you can move at all off angle. I mean one seat on your couch over and the picture starts to get washed out. I was really disappointed. Also the blur with the LCD, even the 240hz of the Samsungs, was to much for me. SD channels the 240hz reduction caused all kinds of strange things to happen with the picture. I returned the LCD after two weeks and switched for the Panasonic 54V10. I'm am much happier with it. There is no blur and I can sit just about 90 degrees from it and the picture looks the same. It was also cheaper. I would recommend the plasma.

One seat? Really? As I said I love my plasma but I also own LCD's (not a LED LCD though) and I find it hard to believe that just one seat and it starts to wash out but as i said I don't own one.

One seat? Really? As I said I love my plasma but I also own LCD's (not a LED LCD though) and I find it hard to believe that just one seat and it starts to wash out but as i said I don't own one.

Believe it! One seat over a is a big deal with washed out blacks and reduced color saturation.

Here's some proof of my 2009 LCD >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYnAmDLXbY

Believe it! One seat over a is a big deal with washed out blacks and reduced color saturation.

Here's some proof of my 2009 LCD >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYnAmDLXbY

What disk are you using? Greys Anatomy? Sleepless in Seattle?

I'd like to do something similar on my LCD because simply put I really don't notice such an extreme change.

I have to admit I am going mainly by reviews and expert opinions of actual users such as you guys. I believe that when you are going to spend dollars (many) for something that you will be using everyday for years (many) , it is best to be as informed as possible from (many) reliable sources. Though I have to admit the the LED's in the store displays do look great and the plasmas look darker, my main seating spot is 40 degrees off from my husbands dead center in front and I was concerned about that. I also know that calibration and setup in stores can make a huge difference. (I wouldn't put it past stores to purposely not calibrate the plasmas to make the more expensive, more profit LED's look better.) Hence , I came to you guys for the goods and you delivered. Thank you ! My husband is not a reader - learner like me. We've been burned before without my research. (In our barn is a 1969 Trans Am Firebird convertible my husband bought on ebay from Florida- we live in St Louis metro area-without talking about it, sight unseen and it was as unseemly sight! - that's another long story!)

I have to admit I am going mainly by reviews and expert opinions of actual users such as you guys. I believe that when you are going to spend dollars (many) for something that you will be using everyday for years (many) , it is best to be as informed as possible from (many) reliable sources. Though I have to admit the the LED's in the store displays do look great and the plasmas look darker, my main seating spot is 40 degrees off from my husbands dead center in front and I was concerned about that. I also know that calibration and setup in stores can make a huge difference. (I wouldn't put it past stores to purposely not calibrate the plasmas to make the more expensive, more profit LED's look better.) Hence , I came to you guys for the goods and you delivered. Thank you ! My husband is not a reader - learner like me. We've been burned before without my research. (In our barn is a 1969 Trans Am Firebird convertible my husband bought on ebay from Florida- we live in St Louis metro area-without talking about it, sight unseen and it was as unseemly sight! - that's another long story!)

If I had read this before you talked him into it I would have suggested you make him think he was the one that decided on Plamsa. You could have went to the store and veiwed a LCD and moved off to the side and asked him "Is it just me or does the picture change?" Basically point out all the lesser quality issues with LCD in a way where he thinks he's still king :lol: instead of you talking him into something different than he wants.

Believe it! One seat over a is a big deal with washed out blacks and reduced color saturation.

Here's some proof of my 2009 LCD >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYnAmDLXbY

I have two LCDs myself that are no where near as bad and another five between family and friends none of which are anywhere near as bad.

What disk are you using? Greys Anatomy? Sleepless in Seattle?

I'd like to do something similar on my LCD because simply put I really don't notice such an extreme change.

No Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark Blu-ray disc, that's the only scene on that disc that shows how bad it can get off center. When my LCD is brightly lit (higher backlight level) you will "not" see what I just showed you, in Best Buy on Dynamic you will not see it. I would love to get some duct tape and rap it around a Best Buy salesman's mouth, then lower the backlight in a dark room and then tell him to tell me the benifits to LCD again! :lol:

I'm going to do another video in Dynamic to show how well hidden the viewing angle problem is, I wonder if Tom still thinks LCDs and plasmas still have the "same" viewing angles... :haha:

One seat? Really? As I said I love my plasma but I also own LCD's (not a LED LCD though) and I find it hard to believe that just one seat and it starts to wash out but as i said I don't own one.

Yes. One seat over on my couch the picture changed. Now I don't think it is as bad with the standard LCDs. The side light LEDs is what I believe adds to the poor viewing angle. If I was going to have to stick with LCD I would only look at rear light LCDs or rear, local dimmed LED.