Antenna Help - C4 vs. DB4 vs. CM4228HD vs. HD7694P

Greetings everyone. I am new to this forum and am seeking a bit of advice in picking a roof (or attic) mounted antenna. I'm located in Stamford, CT and my TVFool signal analysis is attached.

As you can see, I am about 30-35 miles from major transmitters.

After spending the better part of yesterday researching antennas, I've narrowed my choices to the following
Clearstream C4 - $109
Channelmaster CM4228HD - $90
Winegard HD7694P - $65
Antennas Direct DB4 - $49

Given the reviews I have read, C4 seems to be the most recommended choice. The obvious con is that it's the most expensive on the list, and if possible, I'd like to save a few dollars if I can.

Can someone please share thoughts on experience and/or advise on what I should get given my specific location? I am, of course, open to recommendations not on my list above.

Thanks in advance,
LH

Hi Littlehonda,

Are you looking to get the NYC stations from the empire state building? Those are the stations listed at 239 degrees magnetic.

If yes I would say you should rule out the Clearstream 4, CM 4228 HD and the DB-4. The reason being that they are all UHF antennas and ABC 7, PIX 11 and WNET 13 are VHF stations.

That would leave the HD7694P, but I would say wait and see what the true experts have to say.

Welcome to the forum littlehonda!

Check out this page: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

You have high vhf channels in your area and the DB-4 and C4 antennas have large negative gains for high vhf. There are also problems with the new CM4228HD, discussed on the same page.

Looking at your tvfool report, you need a high gain antenna to receive signals from NYC. I suggest the Winegard 7698 antenna if you want a single antenna. There is some improvement in gain if you use separate uhf and vhf antennas such as the XG-91 for UHF and the YA 1713 for VHF. In your situation, a roof mount is strongly advised for consistent reception. If you use the two antenna solution, put the XG-91 on top of the mast and the YA 1713 below with a 4 to 5 foot separation. A pre-amp would also be helpful in your case. Tell us the number of splitters/tvs in your set up and the approximate total length of cable in your OTA distribution system. Based on this info, we can advise on the appropriate pre-amp.

Thanks T_O_O, yes I am looking to pick up NYC digital stations. I'm looking to get CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, WB11, and PBS. Anything extra would be a bonus.

IDRick, thanks. I was under the impression that the C4 would be able to pick up VHF-hi but the hdtvprimer link seems to indicate that it won't get ABC-DT but should get WNET 13 and possibly CW11. I would definitely like to have ABC-DT. Plus, Winegard 7698 doesn't seem to be a lot more in terms of price as compared to the C4. But, the install seems harder.

My main reluctance with the roof install is getting the ground right. There is currently a dish up on the roof that's not being used (but has a cable running to the house) and it appears to be grounded but I'll have to double-check that and learn more about grounding if I do go down this path.

My setup consists of 2 tvs and one mythtv box with distances (from the dish currently on the roof) of 60 feet (myth box), and 75 feet (for the two TVs). All three units are on the far side of the house and I'd like to drop one more cable to the side where the dish currently sits. That would make 4 connections in all.

Thanks very much for your help.

How long has it been since the dish was last used? You may be able to use most of the existing cable. Does the wiring from the dish go to all three desired tv locations? If so, a roof install could go pretty easily.

The primer has a good discussion on grounding (scroll to the bottom), see: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html You may be able to reuse the grounding from the sat dish, assuming they grounded the dish properly (not always the case...). The info from the primer should be helpful for evaluating the grounding used in the satellite install.

Based on your number of tvs and cable length, I would recommend the Winegard 8700 pre-amp.

Take care,

Rick

The dish has not been used for about 2 years. The directv cable seems OK on cursory inspection. I will confirm before using but I think it's a standard RG6 75-ohm cable. The cable runs across the length of the house down to the side where the 2 TVs and myth box are located. I can reuse that and add a cable that would go straight down from the antenna to the office located on that end of the house. Is there any risk of overloading?

Grounding seems like a daunting task (I read through your primer). The directv dish seems to be connected to the house ground in the front (i.e., there's no separate tv ground akin to the one in your link's illustration). It snakes over the roof (~75 feet). I can't imagine this is good.

Thanks.

Thanks T_O_O, yes I am looking to pick up NYC digital stations. I'm looking to get CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, WB11, and PBS. Anything extra would be a bonus.

I'm on Long Island 48.6 miles from the NYC transmitters. They're all 2 edge to me as well. I'm using the 91-XG and YA-1713 combo with pretty good results (roof mounted).Of the major networks I'm currently NOT getting CBS, but they have asked for a power increase which may fix it for me. NBC is troublesome at times (last night no problem, other times un-watchable). I am also pointed into nearby trees (maybe 40 feet away).

All of your NM numbers are stronger than mine and you are 18 miles closer. I'm feeding 5 TV's and reused the Cable / Satellite coax that was in place. I have a channel master Cm7778 pre-amp.

That's good to know. I'd like to choose the simplest possible solution. That would argue that I get the Winegard 7698 (instead of the two antenna setup) and start with one TV and no pre-amp. If that works and I get the channels I want (CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, CW11, PBS), I can add TVs and see whether I need a pre-amp. It sounds like I will need one.

Unless you or Rick or anyone else feel strongly otherwise, I'll go ahead and order the 7698 today. And I'll start doing some research on ground that darn thing!

Thanks again.

Hi littlehonda,

Your signal strengths are low enough that overload is not an issue. You could choose to the CM 7777 pre-amp if you wanted but the AP 8700 would certainly handle all the distribution losses in your setup. The CM 7777 has the lowest NM of the pre-amps.

Could you post a picture of the ground used by Directv? It would be ideal if indeed it is the house ground. :) Can you also post a picture where the Directv cables entered the house? They should be grounded just before they enter the house. The ground blocks that directv uses will look like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=09&p=PVGBQHFUL&d=Quad-Grounding-Block-with-Four-Grounding-Lugs&c=Grounding Supplies&sku=PVGBQHFUL

If you have a ground block already installed, there should be a ground wire running to your main service entrance. If not, it is not difficult to install a wire to the service entrance. The primer makes it sound more difficult than it really is... :D Hey, if I can do it, then it can't be too hard! ;)

Both options should do the job for you. Personally, I like the 91-XG/YA1713 combo a bit better than the Winegard 7698 antenna. I do not have personal experience installing a large antenna, perhaps some one will chime in and discuss the relative differences for installing a big 7698 vs the two antenna combo. Make sure have a helper when installing the antenna(s). You can find a good discussion on antenna installation here:

http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf
http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1170980.html

That would argue that I get the Winegard 7698 (instead of the two antenna setup) and start with one TV and no pre-amp.

That's good thinking.

The smaller antenna would need a preamp, the larger one may not.

You are within 1 mile of WEDW-FM on 88.5. If you can't receive WABC, you'll need an FM trap, or a preamp with a built-in FM trap.

I like the AP-8700 preamp, but you have to tune the trap yourself.

The 7777 does have a non-tunable FM trap, but it's not very effective at 88.5 mhz.

Perhaps some one will chime in and discuss the relative differences for installing a big 7698 vs the two antenna combo. Make sure have a helper when installing the antenna(s).

I find either option easy to install with no help. A 91XG is 93" long the Y10-7-13 is 120" long, and an HD 7698P is 168" long (17 lbs).

If you can hold 20 lbs in one hand at arms length without stress and remain balanced, you should be fine.

I prefer to work from an extension ladder rather than actually climbing on the roof. That's especially true with a steep pitched roof or a slate roof.

Could you post a picture of the ground used by Directv? It would be ideal if indeed it is the house ground. :) Can you also post a picture where the Directv cables entered the house? They should be grounded just before they enter the house.

Yes, I will take and post some pictures tomorrow.

If you have a ground block already installed, there should be a ground wire running to your main service entrance. If not, it is not difficult to install a wire to the service entrance.

I checked and there's no ground block installed. When I had cable installed, the serviceman did remove some cables, etc. and he may have taken it off. Does the ground block go on the structure of the house (i.e., drill a hole and attach to the siding?)?

Tower_Guy, thanks for your input. All the information is very helpful. But, I still need to decide on which antenna to buy :o

This may be trivial, but with the two antenna setup does one simply use a coupler to combine the coaxials coming out from each antenna?

Thanks.

Hi littlehonda,

Yes, the groundblock goes on the outside of the house. I'll find a picture that shows how do set up the cable to create a drip loop and post.

Joining antennas, you can do two ways: use a uvsj or use a pre-amp with separate vhf and uhf inputs such as the CM 7777. Here is a link for the uvsj: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ

I'm going to be on business travel on Tuesday through Thursday. There's lots of great people here that will answer your questions. Folks like Tower Guy, akaHooper, and TigerBangs (plus many others) are very willing to help.

Good luck!

Rick

I find either option easy to install with no help. A 91XG is 93" long the Y10-7-13 is 120" long, and an HD 7698P is 168" long (17 lbs).

If you can hold 20 lbs in one hand at arms length without stress and remain balanced, you should be fine.

I prefer to work from an extension ladder rather than actually climbing on the roof. That's especially true with a steep pitched roof or a slate roof.

Hee, hee, you're braver than I am Tower Guy! The 20 pounds part is not an issue but balance and bulkiness of a large antenna can be a challenge... My roof has a 4/12 slope so geez, I have it super easy versus a northeast roof! :D

Best,

Rick