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5.1 vs. 7.1, the debate, facts and an opinion

Loves2Watch
09-27-2009, 11:06 AM
This is not about lossy vs. lossless or anything other than comparing the 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 surround systems for home theater.

I have been involved with using, testing and auditioning stereo and surround since 1970's including the days of Quadraphonic.

So many times a day I read about and am asked questions on things such as - Do I need to upgrade my receiver to 7.1? Isn't 7.1 better than 5.1? Where can I find a 5.1 receiver as I don't have room for the extra speakers in a 7.1 system? and so on.

So here I will attempt to answer those questions as well as many others and explain the reality in layman's terms.

To paraphrase a fellow colleague - I've tried/used/setup every configuration of surround sound imaginable over the years (including Quadraphonic) 4.0, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 8.1 and 9.1 with a variety of speaker positions. There are very few true 7.1 channel mixes, and even when there are I haven't found the experience to be worthwhile to upgrade over a properly set up 5.1 system when the speakers are placed in accordance with the ITU ITU-R BS.775 recommendation. (See diagram below)
Side note: In most cases, unless you have a true 7.1 mix, the only difference between 6.1 and 7.1 is that in a 7.1 system the 6th channel is divided into 2 channels which are identical.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8533/itu.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/itu.jpg/)

Also see here - http://www.highdefforum.com/speakers-surround-sound/83182-surround-sound-system-speaker-placement-guide.html

7.1 systems can be of some benefit in rooms that are oddly shaped or that can't be setup according to the above mentioned ITU recommended configuration. While I don't think 7.1 is an improvement that warrants replacing or upgrading your current equipment, it does have it's uses.

Also something to note is that when your amp is only driving 5 speakers instead of 7, there is more power to go around and if you, like me, like to listen at reference levels there will be less chance of your amp being driven to clipping (distortion) which will give you better sound.

The technology trends are using added presence with height and width speakers. Although nice sounding in a perfect environment it is just not feasible for the everyday joe and a costly endeavor as new equipment and speakers are required.

Does 9.1, 8.1, 7.1 and 6.1 sound better than 5.1? Maybe but only in an ideal, perfectly setup environment and in a limited number of circumstances. Will 5.1 still perform well? Absolutely and it will, in most cases be all that it needed to hear superior surround sound.

BTW: Any modern 7.1, 8.1, or 9.1 receiver can be configured to use 5.1 quite easily so even if you just purchased a 7.1 channel HTiB you can set it up to be a 5.1 system.

Joe Las Vegas
09-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Only thing I can say about my 7.1 Onkyo 6100 is that the sound coming from behind is more enveloping since now I get 4 speakers to surround me from the rear (instead of 2), so it sounds great, especially when playing games, and yes I had a 5.1 before.
I have my speakers setup like in your diagram with the extra 2 rear speakers at the 5 and 7 o'clock positions, and if you put 2 more speakers in the rear at 5 and 7 on you diagram, you can see what I mean by more enveloping.

Suave
09-30-2009, 07:33 AM
Hi Loves2Watch & All!

Thanks very much for the post!! Please bear with me as I really am a bit of a noob & have already purchased a 7.1 speaker system based on the "fear" that I will not lose out in the future & that I will never have to break into walls & all that hassle to run cables etc. Second, is taht just because I have now bought the speakers, I feel compelled to use them all (human nature overriding human logic?) so I do not fell I have wasted my money or resources!! You must pull your hair out in desperation with people like me!

My room is 4m wide & 3.4m front to back. The ceiling height is 2.4 m. My listening position is fixed with my bed right up against the back wall. I really would like your help in what you feel would be the best rear speaker placement solution in my case.

Also, I need help & advise of subwoofer placement - I will be placing it on a granite plinth inside some wardrobes but firing directly out into the room (it is a forward firing REL Q200E - I can also get another one if need be). I have read something about not placing a subwoofer directly facing an opposite wall (something to do with signals bouncing & nullifying each other) but I have no choice in this I am afraid.

Please kindly look at the images below & let me know which you think would be the best options for me in terms of rear speaker & sub placement - I am having work done very soon so would like to get it right first time with your help - My very sincere thanks to you!!!

Suave!

Loves2Watch
09-30-2009, 09:02 AM
Rear speaker placement B

Sub placement B, C or D.

At least that would be the way I would place the speakers for the best sound.

REL subs are exceptional...

Suave
09-30-2009, 11:23 AM
Hi Loves2Watch!

Many thanks indeed - I will stick to your advice! Regarding the sub placement out of B, C & D, which do you think is best? Do you think having two REL Q200'E's is overkill? Which ever I choose (based on your sugesstion!) the sub(s) will be directly facing the opposite wall - do I have to worry about this nulling effect?

Finally, I have noticed that a lot of new AV Amps, in addition to the main L&R speakers, have extra channels for frontal effects - I think something to do with Dolby Pro-Logic IIz? I believe these extra speakers are to be placed up higher than the normal L&R Speakers but am not sure if they are to be placed up and in-line with the Front speakers or behind them. What is your understanding of this and how effective do you think these extra front speakers are to adding to the overall surround experience?

Thank You!

Suave!

Loves2Watch
09-30-2009, 11:29 AM
Hi Loves2Watch!

Many thanks indeed - I will stick to your advice! Regarding the sub placement out of B, C & D, which do you think is best? Do you think having two REL Q200'E's is overkill? Which ever I choose (based on your sugesstion!) the sub(s) will be directly facing the opposite wall - do I have to worry about this nulling effect? Put some sound absorptive material along the opposing wall like pillows, for example. Two REL's, in your situation might be overkill.

Finally, I have noticed that a lot of new AV Amps, in addition to the main L&R speakers, have extra channels for frontal effects - I think something to do with Dolby Pro-Logic IIz? I believe these extra speakers are to be placed up higher than the normal L&R Speakers but am not sure if they are to be placed up and in-line with the Front speakers or behind them. What is your understanding of this and how effective do you think these extra front speakers are to adding to the overall surround experience?

Thank You!

Suave!

Sound effect front channels come in 2 flavors currently. One is a wide configuration and the other is height. Either and/or both can be impressive given the correct room dimensions, in particular width of the room and precise speaker placement.

I don't believe you, in this situation would/could benefit from either.

Suave
09-30-2009, 06:14 PM
Sound effect front channels come in 2 flavors currently. One is a wide configuration and the other is height. Either and/or both can be impressive given the correct room dimensions, in particular width of the room and precise speaker placement.

I don't believe you, in this situation would/could benefit from either.

Hi Again!

My profound thanks to you again! Looks like I will be sticking to a regular 5.1 system then! I have to say, things are getting crazy with the speaker front - I understand there are now amps that offer not only 7.1 but also 9.1 & even 11.1!! Unless one lives in a mansion with a very large room & is centrally seated with ample space all around the listening position, then it sounds like a wasted exercise imho!


Suave!

Stew4HD
10-01-2009, 06:49 AM
Excellent thread L2W. I run into this "debate" a lot in my business. The 5.1 vs 7.1 is very confusing to a lot of folks, especially those buying these 7.1 HTIBs. When I tell them that they don't 'need' to have the back speakers connected to enjoy great surround sound, I get the old 'hairy eyeball' look from them (whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?).

My own system is 6.1 but it is rare to hear seperate sound from the back channel.

Rich_Guy
10-04-2009, 09:39 PM
I definitely liked what the two rear speakers did for my system when I went from 5.1 to 7.1 My speakers are all Klipsch

Here is my system.

http://www.petitesweets.com/my_system.jpg

Loves2Watch
10-04-2009, 10:04 PM
I definitely liked what the two rear speakers did for my system when I went from 5.1 to 7.1 My speakers are all Klipsch

Here is my system.

http://www.petitesweets.com/my_system.jpg

I can see where in your room (which is an odd configuration) where it would be of benefit (7.1)

Rich_Guy
10-09-2009, 10:23 PM
I can see where in your room (which is an odd configuration) where it would be of benefit (7.1)

Actually with the exception of the left "side surround" being a couple feet further to the left my configuration is nearly ideal 7.1 configuration and the sound is exceptional.

Ideally if it were possible I would lower the surrounds about 1' to 1.5' but lower does not really work for this room due to the doorways.