Anyone have their surround and TV hooked up to arc fault breakers?

I finally hooked up my TV, receiver, speakers, etc. I have a brand new house and new electrical codes require arc fault circuit breakers. I keep tripping the breaker. I have an LCD TV, DVD, PS3, and Onkyo receiver hooked up to the electricity. I started troubleshooting and at first thought the PS3 was the cause. I unplugged it, still tripped, I started testing everything individually. No trip. I played a CD through the DVD player and the surrounds and pumped it for about 10 minutes perfectly fine. I tried the TV without the receiver and just with the DVD it was fine. The problem seems to occur when the TV is hooked up to the receiver. I even tested it with RCA's instead of HDMI cables to rule out problems with the cables. Still kept tripping. I have no idea what could cause this. The receiver works fine, TV works fine (been using it for about a week prior). The 2 hooked up together regardless of what kind of cable being used to hook them up, trip every time. I'm thinking it's a problem with the breaker itself though my electrician seems to disagree...big surprise. Anyone have this problem or can anyone shed some light on my problem?

You may need to connect the TV and receiver to different circuits. What else (besides your HT equipment) is on that circuit?

You may need to connect the TV and receiver to different circuits. What else (besides your HT equipment) is on that circuit?

Nothing...that's it. The circuit is just my living room receptacles. HT equipment is the only thing plugged in in the entire room besides a night light....

Nothing...that's it. The circuit is just my living room receptacles. HT equipment is the only thing plugged in in the entire room besides a night light....

Wow, it sounds like you do need another circuit and outlet so you can separate the TV and receiver.

Can you switch out the AFCI for a standard breaker to see if it is the arc fault breakers fault?

Really interested in this one, as I work for the company that invented AFCI.

Wow, it sounds like you do need another circuit and outlet so you can separate the TV and receiver.
R these like the only components that can be separate without causing a ground loop issue ? (TV Panel separate from HT audio)

R these like the only components that can be separate without causing a ground loop issue ? (TV Panel separate from HT audio)

No, not at all but they are the ones that draw the most power.

My electrician just went by to check it out. Says he ran everything for about 10 minutes and nothing tripped!! WTF?! This is like when you take your car to the mechanic and all of the sudden it isn't doing that thing anymore....

I'm going to have to screw with it when I get home....

My electrician just went by to check it out. Says he ran everything for about 10 minutes and nothing tripped!! WTF?! This is like when you take your car to the mechanic and all of the sudden it isn't doing that thing anymore....

I'm going to have to screw with it when I get home....

Be careful, don't play with it if you don't know what you are doing.

Be careful, don't play with it if you don't know what you are doing.

I'm not messing with the electricity. I'm just going to run everything together and see if I get it to trip like it was yesterday. He did mention that 2 of my speaker wires had a couple of small frayed pieces of copper.....

I'm not messing with the electricity. I'm just going to run everything together and see if I get it to trip like it was yesterday. He did mention that 2 of my speaker wires had a couple of small frayed pieces of copper.....

If they are causing a short that could trip the breaker.

My electrician just went by to check it out. Says he ran everything for about 10 minutes and nothing tripped!!

Wonder how much an hour he gets to make that insightful observation.

I was thinking...is it possible that I overdid it on the speaker wires? I went with 14 gauge 2 conducter wire that I picked up on monoprice. Could the thicker wires be drawing too much current?

I was thinking...is it possible that I overdid it on the speaker wires? I went with 14 gauge 2 conducter wire that I picked up on monoprice. Could the thicker wires be drawing too much current?

No, speaker wires don't draw current, per se so that is not the problem, you could use 4 GA if you so desired with no problems.. Frayed wires that may be touching (check the connections at the receiver and speakers) could create a sort but other than that speaker wires are relatively harmless (as in carrying no power).

The arc fault detection circuit would never see the speaker wires, it only looks for a typical signal on the AC side. All (home generated) arcs make the same signal. We also outfit aircraft with AFCI's, so no more arc fires on airplanes!~

The arc fault detection circuit would never see the speaker wires, it only looks for a typical signal on the AC side. All (home generated) arcs make the same signal. We also outfit aircraft with AFCI's, so no more arc fires on airplanes!~

So you're saying frayed wires wouldn't cause arcing?

So you're saying frayed wires wouldn't cause arcing?

Not speaker wires, at least not that the AFCI can see.

Not speaker wires, at least not that the AFCI can see.

But if they cause a short in the receiver...

Here's the most recent update: I fiddled with the receiver and TV and did some more testing trying to figure out where the break down is. As soon as I hook up video to the TV, it will trip within 30-45 seconds. So, I got an extension cord and ran it into my dining room where there is a 20 amp breaker instead of a 15. I believe it is still an arc fault breaker but I could be wrong. All I know is it works perfectly and I've had everything running for about 40 minutes with no trip? Does this mean that I have a bad 15 amp breaker or that it needs to be upgraded to 20 amp? Is that easily done, or would the wiring need to be changed as well?

Here's the most recent update: I fiddled with the receiver and TV and did some more testing trying to figure out where the break down is. As soon as I hook up video to the TV, it will trip within 30-45 seconds. So, I got an extension cord and ran it into my dining room where there is a 20 amp breaker instead of a 15. I believe it is still an arc fault breaker but I could be wrong. All I know is it works perfectly and I've had everything running for about 40 minutes with no trip? Does this mean that I have a bad 15 amp breaker or that it needs to be upgraded to 20 amp? Is that easily done, or would the wiring need to be changed as well?

If the wire is 12 ga, then it can be allowed a 20A breaker... That's how we wire houses anyway (12 ga nm cable w/ 20A breakers for outlets, 14 ga nm cable w/ 15A breakers for lighting circuits.) The AFCI breakers that are now required under the 2008 NEC code are really sensitive, so with all of the different electronics hooked up, it's hard to say. Check the size of your wire going to that breaker. What I would do, and only if you are comfortable, is change the breaker to a 20A if it's 12 ga. Otherwise, it could be a defective breaker.

Well, DrCAD, I'm having the same issue! Just moved into a house built in 2002 that has arc fault breakers. As soon as I try to plug in my Sony 40" LCD TV it kicks the breaker. Even tried using a high end TrippLite surge suppressor. No luck. As soon as the plug touches the outlet it kicks the breaker. Any ideas?

Well, DrCAD, I'm having the same issue! Just moved into a house built in 2002 that has arc fault breakers. As soon as I try to plug in my Sony 40" LCD TV it kicks the breaker. Even tried using a high end TrippLite surge suppressor. No luck. As soon as the plug touches the outlet it kicks the breaker. Any ideas?


I don't have any idea, but I would try turning the breaker off, plugging in the TV and turning the breaker back on.

I know my TV causes the lights to dim for a split second when I turn it on, maybe yours is doing something like that when it gets plugged in.

The guy that invented the AFCI has since retired and I don't know who to ask in that office.

Well, DrCAD, I'm having the same issue! Just moved into a house built in 2002 that has arc fault breakers. As soon as I try to plug in my Sony 40" LCD TV it kicks the breaker. Even tried using a high end TrippLite surge suppressor. No luck. As soon as the plug touches the outlet it kicks the breaker. Any ideas?

If the AFCI is tripping immediately, you probably have a short or a ground fault within the TV; and it behooves you to get the TV checked. impulse22281 on the other hand, has a different problem. As DoctorCad indicated, it is probably a defective AFCI-- I can not imagine the circuit is overloaded and/or why arcing will develop after 20 minutes . . . it IS possible however, that a power supply in the TV or receiver is overheating after a period of time. This is a tough problem diagnose.

http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/afci_circuit_breakers.htm

If your home is new this probably isn't the case, but when I replaced my CRT TV with my LCD, it kept tripping the GCFI outlet. Basically, the springs in those things wear out over time. I replaced it with a new one and everything has been fine since then.

All of your equipment should have nameplate ratings ,get the amperage on all your equipment and I'm sure its no where near 15 amps ,or turn everything on and get a clamp on amp probe ,take your panel cover off and clamp it around the black wire for the living room circuit.I am an electrician and since thes arc faults hit the market they have caused alot of problems

All of your equipment should have nameplate ratings ,get the amperage on all your equipment and I'm sure its no where near 15 amps ,or turn everything on and get a clamp on amp probe ,take your panel cover off and clamp it around the black wire for the living room circuit.I am an electrician and since thes arc faults hit the market they have caused alot of problems

But how many fires have they kept from killing people?

New update: I keep testing this out to try and figure it out. I tried changing HDMI wires, and RCA wires. I had a licensed electrician swap out the arc fault breaker with a new one, etc. Here's what's going on now. Everything trips only when I have my subwoofer plugged in (it's a 250watt Infinity PS10). So, I ran an extension cord to a seperate circuit just for the subwoofer and I have no problems whatsoever. So, I figure maybe something with the subwoofer is causing an arc, and it's still under warranty so no big deal. Next step, I borrow my cousin's subwoofer just to test it out. Plug everything into the living room circuit (as it should be). It worked for about 20 minutes then tripped again. So, it's not the subwoofer.

Only thing left is the receiver itself which I highly doubt is the problem because like I said, everything works perfectly when the sub isn't plugged in.

This is very frustrating. As much as I don't want to, I'm about to just have one of my buddies switch the breaker to a non arc fault breaker. Either that or get a separate circuit just for my TV, receiver, devices, etc, and leave the sub hooked up by itself in the living room.

Also, just to throw this out there. My system trips much more frequently and quicker if I have my PS3 hooked up. Originally I thought the PS3 was the problem so I unplugged it all together and hooked it up to the TV in my bedroom. Even without the PS3 I still get a trip. It may take 20-30 minutes for a trip to occur, but it still happens. With the PS3 a trip will usually occur after 2-3 minutes tops. None of this occurs if the subwoofer is unplugged or hooked up to a different circuit.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

by removing the 250 watt subwoofer amplifier from the circuit, I would say you just proved the total load on the circuit was too high. Especially when the power demands of the subwoofer amp kicked in for a dynamic part of the soundtrack.

Your best solution is a separate dedicated 20 amp line, run from a new breaker to the room.

WTF....there goes my theory. I've kept my subwoofer unplugged and everything had been working fine for probably about a week. Yesterday, the system started tripping again. No subwoofer, so I guess the sub is NOT the problem. The only thing I haven't changed is the receiver itself. I'm going to try and change the receiver. If it still trips after that then it's definitely gotta be an electrical issue. So annoying already. Will keep you guys posted.

Impulse, What else is on that circuit? When you trip the breaker, what else in the house shuts off? One of my bathroom light circuits also has the fan and lights in another bathroom on it. When my wife uses her blow dryer and someone flips the fan on in the other bathroom, the breaker pops. Your 15 amp circuit may already be servicing 5 or 10 amps in other rooms. Vanmeter's suggestion (dedicated circuit w 20 amp) is best but not always the most practical.
dave

Well ONKYO while a good company is known for their receivers drawing a lot of power.

Impulse, What else is on that circuit? When you trip the breaker, what else in the house shuts off? One of my bathroom light circuits also has the fan and lights in another bathroom on it. When my wife uses her blow dryer and someone flips the fan on in the other bathroom, the breaker pops. Your 15 amp circuit may already be servicing 5 or 10 amps in other rooms. Vanmeter's suggestion (dedicated circuit w 20 amp) is best but not always the most practical.
dave

Nothing else on the circuit. I'm in a brand new house. Living room is on it's own seperate circuit. Lights are also on seperate circuit, so really the only thing I have hooked up in my living room is the surround sound. I also have 2 lamps but they've been unplugged during my testing.

Sorry for yet another update....I promise I'll shut up soon. So, a buddy of mine was nice enough to let me borrow his Denon receiver which works perfectly at his house. I bring it home, hook everything up, about 5 minutes and it trips. So, I've ruled out the receiver, subwoofer, DVD player/PS3, cable box, RCA wires, HDMI wires. The only thing I haven't actually swapped out is the TV itself, but the TV worked flawlessly prior to the surround sound setup so I don't think I'm going to go through all of that. In addition, I also don't think it's a wiring issue. I ran an extension cord to my dining room this time which has a 20A arc fault instead of my living room's 15A. It tripped in the dining room after about 15 minutes or so. So, what are the odds that 2 different rooms on 2 different circuits have wiring problems? So, it's not a wiring problem, it's not a device problem, it's just the fricken arc fault breaker!! Don't know what else to do about it. I've been here over 3 months and still don't have this issue resolved. Should I contact the electrical inspector since this is a brand new house? I don't want to throw my electrician under the bus either. I want a non-arc fault breaker, but I would like it to be installed by a licensed professional, just in case (God forbid) something were to happen.

If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears, but as far as testing goes, put a fork in me, I'm done!

Thanks to those of you that have been following my nightmare!

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