Okay, So Given the Choice of the OPPO or a New Panny...

...given the premium and emphasis placed on superior DVD upconversion performance, what would be your pick? A Panny BD80, say, or the OPPO?

I don't hear anything around here on the Onkyo BD player...is it really that big of a turd?

Seems in the "affordable" category, it's coming down to Panasonic, OPPO or possibly Sony...

Oppo is by far the winner. Even if you are not interested in the SACD and DVD Audio capabilities, the video processing is the tops (Anchor Bay) both for Blu-ray discs and SD DVD upconversion. It beats all the others in it's price range and is comparable to units costing many times its price. The multichannel analog audio is also beyond compare.

I used to think my BD 60 was the top of the heap that is until I connected the Oppo. I have done A/B comparisons against esoteric Blu-ray players costing thousands of dollars yet none were superior.

Oppo is by far the winner. Even if you are not interested in the SACD and DVD Audio capabilities, the video processing is the tops (Anchor Bay) both for Blu-ray discs and SD DVD upconversion. It beats all the others in it's price range and is comparable to units costing many times its price. The multichannel analog audio is also beyond compare.

As always, thank you L2W for your opinion and input...

What about the Onkyo player...have you heard anything about it at all?

As always, thank you L2W for your opinion and input...

What about the Onkyo player...have you heard anything about it at all?

Ever hear the phrase the silence is deafening? I think that explains why there is not much about this Onkyo BD player.

The Onkyo is a Funai built player if I remember correctly so why would you even be looking at that? Check the Funai thread in this section but I am pretty sure it is the same player as the cheapo players out there with the Onkyo faceplate on it.

If you keep adding players to compare you will NEVER buy one Peter. At some point you should think about narrowing your choice with process of elimination, but you seem to be doing the opposite. This is not rocket science nor life or death. We all like to make the best choices, but spending months and years researching could be better spent getting a part time job and using that extra money to buy one of each BD player and then selling what you don't like. ;)

If you have the budget for the Oppo then that is THE bang for the buck champ. Nothing out there beats it from all accounts and that includes BD players that cost several thousand dollars. As far as the BD80. You should be comparing the BD60 and that price point to decide whether the Oppo is wiorth the extra money and disregard the BD80, since other than an extra SD memory card playback option the only extra thing it has over the BD60 is that it has analog 5.1/7.1 audio outputs that YOU do not need since your receiver can do all the decoding and you can also have the BD60 decode it over the HDMI connection your receiver has.

EDIT:

Here is a link to the pictures of the Funai, Philips, Denon & Onkyo BD players all using the exact same components made by Funai:

http://www.highdefforum.com/921601-post71.html

It was not in a Funai thread but the Philips thread, but it shows these 4 BD players are the same player.

As always, thank you L2W for your opinion and input...

What about the Onkyo player...have you heard anything about it at all?

Nothing that stands out...

I have done a ton of research on BD players, as of right now the player that stands out the most is the Oppo BDP 83. The Oppo has it all, sound, video processing and loads BD discs hella fast! I will give you 35 different reasons why the Oppo is the BD player to get, the reviews at Amazon are extremely detailed. Enough to make your head explode, seriously these reviews are long! :D >>

http://www.amazon.com/OPPO-BDP-83-Blu-ray-Player-DVD-Audio/product-reviews/B002EEP3MK/ref=cm_cr_pr_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

The Oppo BDP-83 is the best $500 media player I have ever seen. I would say if SACD/DVD-A are of no interest, you must place a high premium on DVD-V performance to justify the price compared to a good player like the Sony BDP-S550 that doesn't do as well with DVD. I don't think the Panasonic or Sony players compare as far as DVD-V but are very good value Blu-ray players. If excellent DVD-V performance is worth an additional $200 or so, then I don't know how you beat the BDP-83. Just read some the objective analysis and subjective opinions of the BDP-83 and DV-983H to get an idea about how well this design works.

In my experience, I would say only Sony offers better firmware support than Oppo. As far as the Onkyo DV-BD606, it is a proven Funai design and I like it a lot, but like it at the proper price for that particular player. There are less expensive brand names on this Funai made player. Denon, Onkyo, Philips and others wouldn't have decided to put their brand name on the Funai made Blu-ray players if the player wasn't a good one. It's DVD-V performance falls well short of the Oppo BDP-83 in my opinion as expected.

Chris

In my experience, I would say only Sony offers better firmware support than Oppo.

I doubt that as Oppo, when they find problems submitted by users or to add additional functionality, update their firmware much more rapidly. I am speaking of the BDP-83 only here though since we ARE comparing Blu-ray players.

I doubt that as Oppo, when they find problems submitted by users or to add additional functionality, update their firmware much more rapidly. I am speaking of the BDP-83 only here though since we ARE comparing Blu-ray players.

They are very fast in responding to queries about anything surrounding the player, bad disks, abnormal operation, funny noises, etc.
They never give you a patented response, or have some CS rep look up a flow chart. They assign a techie to address your problem directly. The fact they are a relatively small company probably helps in getting more personal care.

Yes, Oppo has great customer service and great firmware support. I own both Sony and Oppo Blu-ray players and in my opinion, Sony is even better with firmware support. Sony has been terrific with firmware updates for my BDP-S1 and PS3, never once having a disc that won't play, firmware has been provided before I have my hands on a problematic disc. The Sony firmware support must be a result of extensive testing and a large staff working on development. I have no complaints with Oppo but a 100 test score is better than a 99.

Chris

Ever hear the phrase the silence is deafening? I think that explains why there is not much about this Onkyo BD player.

I honestly didn't know why it wasn't getting any talk; I really wanted to know more about the player, but I can recall Chris saying something about its DVD upconversion being poor...but now he's saying something about liking it for the price point, which I need to look into more...

The Onkyo is a Funai built player if I remember correctly so why would you even be looking at that? Check the Funai thread in this section but I am pretty sure it is the same player as the cheapo players out there with the Onkyo faceplate on it.

Okay; but still, there has been like NO talk about this deck...what's so piss poor about the Funai players?

If you keep adding players to compare you will NEVER buy one Peter. At some point you should think about narrowing your choice with process of elimination, but you seem to be doing the opposite. This is not rocket science nor life or death. We all like to make the best choices, but spending months and years researching could be better spent getting a part time job and using that extra money to buy one of each BD player and then selling what you don't like. ;)

I know it's not rocket science or "life or death" but as I have said before, and I will stand by this for as long as it takes, I WILL NOT be burned again as I was with my first BD player purchase (I should have waited until players were stable in terms of performance and operations) and I want to be absolutely sure this time I get one with what I need it to do. I don't want to keep regularly replacing units in my rack.

If you have the budget for the Oppo then that is THE bang for the buck champ. Nothing out there beats it from all accounts and that includes BD players that cost several thousand dollars. As far as the BD80. You should be comparing the BD60 and that price point to decide whether the Oppo is wiorth the extra money and disregard the BD80, since other than an extra SD memory card playback option the only extra thing it has over the BD60 is that it has analog 5.1/7.1 audio outputs that YOU do not need since your receiver can do all the decoding and you can also have the BD60 decode it over the HDMI connection your receiver has.

Okay; I meant to reference the BD60 -- indeed, I don't need the analog outs.

So, in your opinion, it comes down to the BD60 or OPPO, yes?

EDIT:

Here is a link to the pictures of the Funai, Philips, Denon & Onkyo BD players all using the exact same components made by Funai:

http://www.highdefforum.com/921601-post71.html

It was not in a Funai thread but the Philips thread, but it shows these 4 BD players are the same player.

Thanks -- I'll read as soon as I can. :hithere:

Nothing that stands out...

Why do you say that, L2W? Just curious of your opinions here...

I have done a ton of research on BD players, as of right now the player that stands out the most is the Oppo BDP 83. The Oppo has it all, sound, video processing and loads BD discs hella fast! I will give you 35 different reasons why the Oppo is the BD player to get, the reviews at Amazon are extremely detailed. Enough to make your head explode, seriously these reviews are long! :D >>

http://www.amazon.com/OPPO-BDP-83-Blu-ray-Player-DVD-Audio/product-reviews/B002EEP3MK/ref=cm_cr_pr_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Thanks Tech,

Would you still get one over, say, a Panasonic or Sony?

The Oppo BDP-83 is the best $500 media player I have ever seen. I would say if SACD/DVD-A are of no interest, you must place a high premium on DVD-V performance to justify the price compared to a good player like the Sony BDP-S550 that doesn't do as well with DVD. I don't think the Panasonic or Sony players compare as far as DVD-V but are very good value Blu-ray players. If excellent DVD-V performance is worth an additional $200 or so, then I don't know how you beat the BDP-83. Just read some the objective analysis and subjective opinions of the BDP-83 and DV-983H to get an idea about how well this design works.

Thank you, Chris; this eases my mind a bit on which would be better for DVD-V performance because that is DEFINITELY a premium feature for me.

In my experience, I would say only Sony offers better firmware support than Oppo. As far as the Onkyo DV-BD606, it is a proven Funai design and I like it a lot, but like it at the proper price for that particular player. There are less expensive brand names on this Funai made player. Denon, Onkyo, Philips and others wouldn't have decided to put their brand name on the Funai made Blu-ray players if the player wasn't a good one.

See, PFC? It's Chris' thoughts HERE which make me wonder if we're missing something with the Denon or Onkyo Funai clones...

It's DVD-V performance falls well short of the Oppo BDP-83 in my opinion as expected.

Chris

Have you seen the Onkyo in action to determine this?

Thanks Tech,

Would you still get one over, say, a Panasonic or Sony?

Yes, I'm buying the Oppo BDP-83 this coming Thursday! :D

Yes, I'm buying the Oppo BDP-83 this coming Thursday! :D

Please let me know how you like it, or don't.

Please let me know how you like it, or don't.

I will give everyone my experience with the Oppo, including whether or not the multichannel analog outputs provide better sound than my optical digital cable or Toshlink. :D

Thank you, Chris; this eases my mind a bit on which would be better for DVD-V performance because that is DEFINITELY a premium feature for me.



See, PFC? It's Chris' thoughts HERE which make me wonder if we're missing something with the Denon or Onkyo Funai clones...



Have you seen the Onkyo in action to determine this?

Why would you buy a cheap Funai player but pay a premium price for the player just because they changed the faceplate to have a Denon or Onkyo logo on it?

Also why would you even be comparing a Funai player against a Panasonic or Oppo when you already stated that you value feature & performance more than the Funai is likely to provide?

By constantly analysing every single BD player that gets introduced, you have already "researched" through TWO whole product life cycles of BD players, and in the next couple of months you will likely be starting your research all over again on the THIRD cycle as more new BD players come to market and the current models are discontinued. When Coby comes out with a BD player for $80.00 will you be looking at that also and be comparing it to a $2,000.00 Denon for consideration? Most people narrow down their search as they continue to research, but YOU seem to constantly expand your search.

I mean come on. It has been TWO YEARS since you started your quest to replace the BD10A. At this point I think you will likely be using that BD10A until it breaks and you are forced to buy another BD player quick. Are you actually planing on buying a BD player soon, or just keeping the research ongoing for the day your current BD player dies?

You say you got burnt, but you did not get burnt with your first BD player. That BD10A was THE best player at the time. Maybe you just should not be an early adopter if you feel this way. ;)

Besides how bad can the BD10A be since you will likely be using it for a long time to come. :hithere:

I started off on the HDdvd.. it was cheaper, but I ended up buying more blu rays movies once I got the ps3. I read that was the best player. I did that.. then the panasonic 30 showed up. I decided to get that one. it was fine player for what it was. every year they come out with a new one. I then got the panasonic 60 and then the 605 (same as 60) sam's club brand. I had problems with it. I took it back and got the 80. it was less then 50 bucks apart.
there are people say that if you don;t need the analog then go with the 60.. that might be true. but the 80 can do a few things that the 60 cann;'t do besides the analog. it can do the bitrate on bitstream or pcm. then it will tell you how its playing? if its bitstreaming, second audio off etc. I like using that alot. then there is the high clarity for non analog use. you probably heard about the 60 and the 80 having a freeze problem. some have it more then others. I never had the panasonic 10A or the 35/55. I cannt compare.
knowing you.. peter. you might have a freeze problem with the panasonic 60/80. I would probably suggest you get the oppo.
lets not forget that panasonic and james cameron want people to buy a new tv set and new bluray player to use for the new 3D on home theatre.. that is suppose to come out next year.. I dont know if people will buy that.
Jacob

Why would you buy a cheap Funai player but pay a premium price for the player just because they changed the faceplate to have a Denon or Onkyo logo on it?

Also why would you even be comparing a Funai player against a Panasonic or Oppo when you already stated that you value feature & performance more than the Funai is likely to provide?

By constantly analysing every single BD player that gets introduced, you have already "researched" through TWO whole product life cycles of BD players, and in the next couple of months you will likely be starting your research all over again on the THIRD cycle as more new BD players come to market and the current models are discontinued. When Coby comes out with a BD player for $80.00 will you be looking at that also and be comparing it to a $2,000.00 Denon for consideration? Most people narrow down their search as they continue to research, but YOU seem to constantly expand your search.

I mean come on. It has been TWO YEARS since you started your quest to replace the BD10A. At this point I think you will likely be using that BD10A until it breaks and you are forced to buy another BD player quick. Are you actually planing on buying a BD player soon, or just keeping the research ongoing for the day your current BD player dies?

You say you got burnt, but you did not get burnt with your first BD player. That BD10A was THE best player at the time. Maybe you just should not be an early adopter if you feel this way. ;)

Besides how bad can the BD10A be since you will likely be using it for a long time to come. :hithere:

Peter is still holding out for a new model, but he wants to wait until he moves from his current home. With the economy the way it is that might take a long time, who knows how long before we hit rock bottom.

Thank you, Chris; this eases my mind a bit on which would be better for DVD-V performance because that is DEFINITELY a premium feature for me.



See, PFC? It's Chris' thoughts HERE which make me wonder if we're missing something with the Denon or Onkyo Funai clones...



Have you seen the Onkyo in action to determine this?

No, I have not seen the Onkyo Funai Blu-ray player. It uses the Panasonic UniPhier and I have seen some other players made by Funai that use the Panasonic UniPhier. I have read nothing that makes me believe it is anything other than a clone of the Funai players I have seen, therefore I believe it is only OK as far as DVD-V. Keep in mind various versions of that player have been available for about $150 so it is somewhat of a joke that Denon and Onkyo are trying to pass it off as a much more expensive player. When I say I like it for the price, I mean the $150 price.

Chris

Why would you buy a cheap Funai player but pay a premium price for the player just because they changed the faceplate to have a Denon or Onkyo logo on it?

Also why would you even be comparing a Funai player against a Panasonic or Oppo when you already stated that you value feature & performance more than the Funai is likely to provide?

By constantly analysing every single BD player that gets introduced, you have already "researched" through TWO whole product life cycles of BD players, and in the next couple of months you will likely be starting your research all over again on the THIRD cycle as more new BD players come to market and the current models are discontinued. When Coby comes out with a BD player for $80.00 will you be looking at that also and be comparing it to a $2,000.00 Denon for consideration? Most people narrow down their search as they continue to research, but YOU seem to constantly expand your search.

I mean come on. It has been TWO YEARS since you started your quest to replace the BD10A. At this point I think you will likely be using that BD10A until it breaks and you are forced to buy another BD player quick. Are you actually planing on buying a BD player soon, or just keeping the research ongoing for the day your current BD player dies?

You say you got burnt, but you did not get burnt with your first BD player. That BD10A was THE best player at the time. Maybe you just should not be an early adopter if you feel this way. ;)

Besides how bad can the BD10A be since you will likely be using it for a long time to come. :hithere:

I disagree with the statement regarding the fact that I "didn't get burned" with the BD10 -- YOU keep calling it the "player to have" at that time, but what I keep saying is that I wish I could have waited to have Master Audio and bitstreamed TrueHD support. And perhaps you're right -- I SHOULDN'T have been an early adopter (although I don't think the BD10A was excessively early in the format's birth process) because I now feel like this is what happens when you adopt early...

As for the Funai players, all I was pointing out is the consideration Chris and some others had given decks like the Onkyo -- I thought it important to now take their feelings on them into consideration.

Peter is still holding out for a new model, but he wants to wait until he moves from his current home. With the economy the way it is that might take a long time, who knows how long before we hit rock bottom.

He claims that my 'BD10A can't be that bad if I am TO use it for a long time to come...however, the reason why I'm just "dealing" with the player's lousy performance for now is twofold: After making adjustments to the display's sharpness levels and some other tweaks months and months ago, the DVD-V playback performance has seemed to improved ever so slightly than what it was...also, there have been just tons of other things in our lives that needed immediate attention over the home theater equipment, and we absolutely HAD to spend our money on that.

But as I continue to hope to get into a new BD player soon, I want to see my options as clearly as possible.

No, I have not seen the Onkyo Funai Blu-ray player. It uses the Panasonic UniPhier and I have seen some other players made by Funai that use the Panasonic UniPhier. I have read nothing that makes me believe it is anything other than a clone of the Funai players I have seen, therefore I believe it is only OK as far as DVD-V. Keep in mind various versions of that player have been available for about $150 so it is somewhat of a joke that Denon and Onkyo are trying to pass it off as a much more expensive player. When I say I like it for the price, I mean the $150 price.

Chris

This is more clear now; indeed, I didn't know it was running the Panasonic's UniPhier.

This is more clear now; indeed, I didn't know it was running the Panasonic's UniPhier.

Who knows if they modified it or the pathways, re or even de-tuned it so to speak...

Who knows if they modified it or the pathways, re or even de-tuned it so to speak...

That's what I'm thinking...

Seems the most performance-oriented model for the money now is the Oppo...

That's what I'm thinking...

Seems the most performance-oriented model for the money now is the Oppo...

Couldn't agree with you more Peter, Oppo's BDP-83 has succeeded at targeting not just the mid-end units, but is competing against the ultra expensive high-end BD players like Denon's overpriced unit. Some might even say the Oppo is too good to be true, it almost is! :D I can't think of one BD player out there that can compete in performance at the same price point of $500 dollars. The only way to get the audio and video performance of the Oppo BDP-83 in another player is to spend thousands of dollars, the Oppo's got it all.

Couldn't agree with you more Peter, Oppo's BDP-83 has succeeded at targeting not just the mid-end units, but is competing against the ultra expensive high-end BD players like Denon's overpriced unit. Some might even say the Oppo is too good to be true, it almost is! :D I can't think of one BD player out there that can compete in performance at the same price point of $500 dollars. The only way to get the audio and video performance of the Oppo BDP-83 in another player is to spend thousands of dollars, the Oppo's got it all.

But, you don't own this yet yourself, do you? Are you getting this just from reports so far?

But, you don't own this yet yourself, do you? Are you getting this just from reports so far?

After all the input from this forum including that review from Home Theater Magazine and the reviews from Amazon are enough for me, in the last two months I have not heard so many good things about any other BD player! For 35 people out of 36 to give the Oppo a 5 star rating says a lot! :D

I'm buying my Oppo on Thursday, can't wait!

After all the input from this forum including that review from Home Theater Magazine and the reviews from Amazon are enough for me, in the last two months I have not heard so many good things about any other BD player! For 35 people out of 36 to give the Oppo a 5 star rating says a lot! :D

I'm buying my Oppo on Thursday, can't wait!

Well, I can understand all that, and congratulations on your excitement, but the proof to me will be in the pudding, so to speak...people who have actually seen it in action to say the high def images are spectacular, or the DVD upconversion can't be beat, etc...

So, what's the continuing concensus here...OPPO over Panasonic, definitely (assuming $500 is an acceptable price to spend)?

Well, I can understand all that, and congratulations on your excitement, but the proof to me will be in the pudding, so to speak...people who have actually seen it in action to say the high def images are spectacular, or the DVD upconversion can't be beat, etc...

I have 2010 vision and can hear every tone the ear doctor can throw at me, if there's a difference I'll know about it! :D I'm the kind of guy that will sit down and listen (watch) all day long until I'm sure about which one is better. :D

So, what's the continuing concensus here...OPPO over Panasonic, definitely (assuming $500 is an acceptable price to spend)?

Well, no one in this thread has mentioned the random freezing problem with the Panasonic BD60/80 models. Until that's fixed, it seems prudent to avoid the Panasonics.

Well, I can understand all that, and congratulations on your excitement, but the proof to me will be in the pudding, so to speak...people who have actually seen it in action to say the high def images are spectacular, or the DVD upconversion can't be beat, etc...

The reviews from professionals and from owners who post here and on other forums are pretty much universal. Nearly everyone raves about the Oppo. Seems like the pudding has been sampled and found to be the best.

Well, no one in this thread has mentioned the random freezing problem with the Panasonic BD60/80 models. Until that's fixed, it seems prudent to avoid the Panasonics.

You are the second person to bring this to my attention, sounds like a bad firmware update.

Well, no one in this thread has mentioned the random freezing problem with the Panasonic BD60/80 models. Until that's fixed, it seems prudent to avoid the Panasonics.

Well, that's the first time I'm hearing about that...

Does anyone else know about the "random freezing problem" on the 60 and 80?

Every once in awhile, I get an HDMI audio dropout on my 'BD10A which is really annoying -- the only way to remedy it is to switch the player completely off and reboot; it happened just the other night, and I simply waited to use the player the following evening and left it off.

The player will do the HDMI handshake search thing but won't lock on the audio track complementing the video that's onscreen...the receiver then reads "No Signal..." with a flickering movement characteristic to the letters. There is video, but no audio.

Is this an HDMI issue or a Panasonic thing? Curious...

The reviews from professionals and from owners who post here and on other forums are pretty much universal. Nearly everyone raves about the Oppo. Seems like the pudding has been sampled and found to be the best.

Usually, the moniker "professional" is randomly utilized with sometimes unpredictable results; leaving that as I may, I understand "everyone is raving about the Oppo" but his excitement seemed to be steeped more in lore and rhetoric because he didn't get the deck yet, so I was curious as to what he was basing it on as that may indeed influence my decision down the road.

Does anyone else know about the "random freezing problem" on the 60 and 80?
The freezing problem is about the only thing being discussed in the BD60/80 owners' thread at AVS. It's like a layer change and only affects BD playback, not DVD. Completely random, not repeatable, not caused by any specific discs. It doesn't happen with all players.

I have 2010 vision and can hear every tone the ear doctor can throw at me...

Funny...just went for my physical the other day and was subjected to this battery of tests -- I have 2020 vision, and I am waiting to hear back about the hearing...

...if there's a difference I'll know about it! :D I'm the kind of guy that will sit down and listen (watch) all day long until I'm sure about which one is better. :D

All I'm saying is...let's just wait and see what all our eyes and ears tell us without rushing into anything based on the hoopla this player is receiving -- I'm sure it will live up to its reputation, but I will still consider a Panasonic if the two decks are in similar ballparks with DVD upconversion (which it looks like they aren't).

The freezing problem is about the only thing being discussed in the BD60/80 owners' thread at AVS. It's like a layer change and only affects BD playback, not DVD. Completely random, not repeatable, not caused by any specific discs. It doesn't happen with all players.

Interesting.

So, it has a layer-change-like freeze, is that it? Like a slight pause which only happens with Blu-rays?

Usually, the moniker "professional" is randomly utilized with sometimes unpredictable results; leaving that as I may, I understand "everyone is raving about the Oppo" but his excitement seemed to be steeped more in lore and rhetoric because he didn't get the deck yet, so I was curious as to what he was basing it on as that may indeed influence my decision down the road.Come on. You object to reviews (odd, given your avocation) and you say the proof will be in the pudding from real owners. Well, real owners say they love the player for just about everything - BD, DVD, speed, analog audio, SACD/DVD-Audio. But, you seem to feel that's mass hysteria.

You are the second person to bring this to my attention, sounds like a bad firmware update.It's been a problem from the outset with the BD60/80 line and has persisted through all firmware updates. Random, unrepeatable problems are difficult to diagnose and fix.

It's been a problem from the outset with the BD60/80 line and has persisted through all firmware updates. Random, unrepeatable problems are difficult to diagnose and fix.

This is not good news for Panasonic, this sounds like another reason to stay away from the Panasonic's! The reason why they are hard to diagnose is because its random, never know when it will happen again. Peter this is one very good reason not to even think about touching a Panasonic!

I wasn't aware of this intermittent problem with the current Panasonic players. I did get the feeling that the current Panasonic players weren't competitive based on comments I have read. Hopefully, there will be firmware to fix the problems but I wouldn't buy one now hoping for a fix, I would buy a player after the fix.

I trust the Oppo design and believe it will be shown to be reliable and durable.

Chris

some people with the panasonic 60/80 have had some freeze problems. I had only had it happen a few times, but only on one disc.. that was the star wars clone wars. during the warner bros and title backdrop. I think once during a featurette. that is about it. I know that panasonic is aware and is trying to fix the problem.. sometimes it takes a while. its still a fine player. it seems to have the problem only with blurays, and not dvds.
I have had audio drop out. after I would play a few dvd titles.. there would be no sound coming from the reciever. I would have to turn it off and back on then it work fine. I had that problem with the panasonic 30, 60 and 80. it could be the handshake problem or something. who knows. I heard that it should start up the bluray player then the receiver and then finally the tv. maybe someone here in chat would know more about that.

Jacob

it seems to have the problem only with blurays, and not dvds.

Jacob

The fact that it happens on only BD discs is not a good thing considering that its a BD player, kind of ironic don't you think?

some people have major issues with it and others do not.
its a known problem.

Jacob

I disagree with the statement regarding the fact that I "didn't get burned" with the BD10 -- YOU keep calling it the "player to have" at that time, but what I keep saying is that I wish I could have waited to have Master Audio and bitstreamed TrueHD support. And perhaps you're right -- I SHOULDN'T have been an early adopter (although I don't think the BD10A was excessively early in the format's birth process) because I now feel like this is what happens when you adopt early...

As for the Funai players, all I was pointing out is the consideration Chris and some others had given decks like the Onkyo -- I thought it important to now take their feelings on them into consideration.

It WAS "the" SAL BD player to have back then. I doubt anyone would dispute this. It was simply the best unless you wanted a PS3. It was the FIRST BD player model Panasonic came out with so of course buying it put you in the early adopter category. It is simply not fair to compare a first generation model against the current 3-5th generation models out now.

I was saying that it cannot be that "bad" if you have spent 2 years looking for a replacement and still have not found one yet and it appears you are no closer to buying one now, based on your research methods, than you were last year. By not using the process of elimination to narrow the search as time goes on and continuing to look at new models that may be released next year, you will likely never replace it.

Guess what? Next year players will improve even more and the same for the year after that, and so on and so forth. Looking now at will come out next year will not help choosing one now, as you never will at the rate you are going, with adding not only currently new models being introduced but by looking at what may be coming next year.

I can understand researching all your options, but the time you are spending doing this means by the time you get close, totally new replacement models will be out and the models you narrowed it down to will no longer be available. Then you will be starting the process all over again. At some point you either have to buy, or wait until the BD format is replaced for there not to be new choices coming in the future. ;)

Just purchase the Oppo. You can't get anything better....and the Panasonic is not in the same league.

Peter ain't never going to buy a new player, he just likes endlessly screwing with everyone. :lol:

Just purchase the Oppo. You can't get anything better....and the Panasonic is not in the same league.

Here's what I see is going to happen, late 2009 to early 2010 I see the new BD players being able to pass 100Mbps ethernet through HDMI along with 3D HDTV and everything that HDMI 1.3 has to offer. Late 2010 I see BD players passing 4K x 2K resolutions, every year there's going to be something new coming out. You think that's quick progress try keeping up with computers when your outdated every 6 months!

Here's what I see is going to happen, late 2009 to early 2010 I see the new BD players being able to pass 100Mbps ethernet through HDMI along with 3D HDTV and everything that HDMI 1.3 has to offer. Late 2010 I see BD players passing 4K x 2K resolutions, every year there's going to be something new coming out. You think that's quick progress try keeping up with computers when your outdated every 6 months!

That may come to volition but any new technology has to mature (3 to 4 years) before it is ready for the masses and the kinks ironed out. For now and the near future, Oppo is the way to go.

That may come to volition but any new technology has to mature (3 to 4 years) before it is ready for the masses and the kinks ironed out. For now and the near future, Oppo is the way to go.

Do you remember the first HDTV's, they were just regular projection sets without digital tuners. HDTV Ready printed on the front, they were even incapable of progressive scanning! This was in late 1998, lol. Look at how long it took for it to be ready for the masses and reach 50% of households.

Come on. You object to reviews (odd, given your avocation) and you say the proof will be in the pudding from real owners. Well, real owners say they love the player for just about everything - BD, DVD, speed, analog audio, SACD/DVD-Audio. But, you seem to feel that's mass hysteria.

I'm not "objecting" to reviews; I merely pointed out the misuse at certain times of the moniker "professional."

It WAS "the" SAL BD player to have back then. I doubt anyone would dispute this. It was simply the best unless you wanted a PS3. It was the FIRST BD player model Panasonic came out with so of course buying it put you in the early adopter category. It is simply not fair to compare a first generation model against the current 3-5th generation models out now.

What I'm saying is that I SHOULD have waited for better models to arrive instead of being an early adopter -- which I admitted to making a mistake with.

I was saying that it cannot be that "bad" if you have spent 2 years looking for a replacement and still have not found one yet and it appears you are no closer to buying one now, based on your research methods, than you were last year. By not using the process of elimination to narrow the search as time goes on and continuing to look at new models that may be released next year, you will likely never replace it.

Maybe I won't; but I sure as s@#$%! won't be buying something -- even for as "little" as $2-500 -- without knowing it absolutely does everything I want. And I cemented my reasons for keeping the 'BD10A longer than usual after certain display tweaks were made.

Peter ain't never going to buy a new player, he just likes endlessly screwing with everyone. :lol:

"Hatt" simply cannot resist finding one member on an internet hobbyist forum to target and specifically fire little stinging commentary at time after time after time...

What is bolded above is absolutely, positively NOT true or accurate whatsoever. Not in the least. :rolleyes:

Just purchase the Oppo. You can't get anything better....and the Panasonic is not in the same league.

That's a large claim -- does anyone else agree with that, that the Panasonic(s) are not even in the same league as the Oppo?

What I'm saying is that I SHOULD have waited for better models to arrive instead of being an early adopter -- which I admitted to making a mistake with.



Maybe I won't; but I sure as s@#$%! won't be buying something -- even for as "little" as $2-500 -- without knowing it absolutely does everything I want. And I cemented my reasons for keeping the 'BD10A longer than usual after certain display tweaks were made.

You can never have something that meets that criteria IMO. They will be improving each and every year that the BD format is alive and growing.

It reminds me of when my brother wanted me to build him a computer that would last for 5 years and NEVER need upgrades to the hardware. I told him that he would pay 5x the money for the fastest computer that is state of the art and then it still would be a dog within 2-3 years.

How old is your computer Peter? Don't you upgrade your computer every few years? Figure the same is true with this HD hobby as well. ;)

That's a large claim -- does anyone else agree with that, that the Panasonic(s) are not even in the same league as the Oppo?

Until this thread and some of the latest posts, I wasn't aware of the issues with the Panasonic BD60/80 players. Given that I would say to avoid the Panasonic and look at the Sony BDP360 model. I have never had this issue with my BD35 though.

That's a large claim -- does anyone else agree with that, that the Panasonic(s) are not even in the same league as the Oppo?

I own the Panasonic DMP-BD35 and the Oppo BDP-83. I like the Panasonic player but it isn't close to the Oppo player which beats it in every respect. Of course the BD35 is much less expensive and it is a great value. If all that is needed is Blu-ray with HDMI audio processing, I would say get the Panasonic player. If the better DVD-V and high resolution audio is also wanted, then the premium for the Oppo player can be justified.

Chris

That's a large claim -- does anyone else agree with that, that the Panasonic(s) are not even in the same league as the Oppo?

Yep I agree with that, the owner of an Oppo gives you his opinion and first hand experience on how well the Oppo performs and now you think its a "large claim"! By saying, "That's a large claim" tells me you take his opinion with a grain of salt. :what:

Yep I agree with that, the owner of an Oppo gives you his opinion and first hand experience on how well the Oppo performs and now you think its a "large claim"! By saying, "That's a large claim" tells me you take his opinion with a grain of salt. :what:

Not only an owner but an industry professional who tests, reviews and installs said equipment on a daily basis.

In this thread too, I'm outta here...

I've heard that the Oppo is one of the fastest players on the market, and the upconversion is outstanding. Sadly, I can't afford one myself. However, I did find an online site where they're giving away a free Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray player (http://www.sweepstar.com/sweepstakes/oppo-bdp-83-blu-ray-disc-player-with-sacd-dvd-audi/), so that might be of some interest!

Not only an owner but an industry professional who tests, reviews and installs said equipment on a daily basis.

In this thread too, I'm outta here...

Frankly, I have to give you some major kudos for having stuck around as long as you have. And I for one thank you deeply for your thoughts and opinions in this thread.

Frankly, I have to give you some major kudos for having stuck around as long as you have. And I for one thank you deeply for your thoughts and opinions in this thread.

That's what I'm here for, to share, help and learn...

Frankly, I have to give you some major kudos for having stuck around as long as you have. And I for one thank you deeply for your thoughts and opinions in this thread.

QFT!:yippee:

Until this thread and some of the latest posts, I wasn't aware of the issues with the Panasonic BD60/80 players. Given that I would say to avoid the Panasonic and look at the Sony BDP360 model. I have never had this issue with my BD35 though.

I thought we were comparing the OPPO to the PANASONIC -- now you're suggesting to look at a SONY? :confused:

Yep I agree with that, the owner of an Oppo gives you his opinion and first hand experience on how well the Oppo performs and now you think its a "large claim"! By saying, "That's a large claim" tells me you take his opinion with a grain of salt. :what:

You don't think that a claim made stating "not even in the same league" as another brand isn't subjective in the least bit?

I disagree.

But it seems we got awol in the mix again to stir the flame kettle, offering random statements including "I for one am glad you stuck around..." with regard to the length and essence of this thread, so it's going to go the way of the do do bird -- this thread, that is.

I am going to respond to Chris' statement and no one else's at this point.

I own the Panasonic DMP-BD35 and the Oppo BDP-83. I like the Panasonic player but it isn't close to the Oppo player which beats it in every respect. Of course the BD35 is much less expensive and it is a great value. If all that is needed is Blu-ray with HDMI audio processing, I would say get the Panasonic player. If the better DVD-V and high resolution audio is also wanted, then the premium for the Oppo player can be justified.

Chris

Thank you for your thoughts and views here; again, though, we have someone very passionate about the Panasonic not beating the Oppo in any respect -- is it the build quality, the DVD-V performance, the video quality on Blu-ray as well that leads you to this conclusion?

That's what I'm here for, to share, help and learn...

I suspect that's why everyone is here. ;)

His comment was a personal slash at me, which comes every so often in threads I create -- even though I have him on ignore, I see some of his comments through replies from others which quote him. :rolleyes:

I thought we were comparing the OPPO to the PANASONIC -- now you're suggesting to look at a SONY? :confused:

Well since the Panasonic has a well documented freezing up issue we have no choice but to eliminate it. The Oppo is the only one still standing so the decision to buy is much easier now. The Oppo is officially the winner, unless you think we should add another.

http://www.goldmund.com/aproducts/eidosreferenceblue/eidosreferenceblue.jpg
And since Peter's never going to buy a BD player, he might as well put this on the list.:thumbsup:


The new Goldmund Eidos Reference Blu-ray Player is a Goldmund Limited Series product. Pushing technology above any existing levels, it offers the ultimate performance in playing today's supports with an exceptional mechanical construction and finish without any cost compromise.

Just like the Goldmund Eidos Reference player, the Goldmund Eidos Reference Blue will remain a statement of technology and a phenomenal sonic masterpiece, assembled with the durability and value of a Swiss investment.

Hand-built in Geneva, the Eidos Reference Blue provides the playback of BluRay discs in addition to the DVD and CD playbacks of extreme quality already present in its famous predecessor. It is both multi-zone and multi-region

Limited in production to 50 units, it will also become a collectible item of extreme rarity which will keep its value over the years and decades to come. However, to satisfy the demand of the most faithful Goldmund customers, it has been designed to allow an easy upgrade for the lucky owners of an Eidos Reference.
Note, this player will not become obsolete overnight.

http://www.goldmund.com/aproducts/eidosreferenceblue/eidosreferenceblue.jpg
And since Peter's never going to buy a BD player, he might as well put this on the list.:thumbsup:



Note, this player will not become obsolete overnight.

You have got to be kidding me, I simply have no words. I'll just say this, " :bowdown: "!

Oh yeah wheres the link?

You have got to be kidding me, I simply have no words. I'll just say this, " :bowdown: "!

Oh yeah wheres the link?
Whoops! Linky (http://www.goldmund.com/products/eidosreferenceblue/).

I haven't looked around to see how much it is. Probably over $30,000.:helpme

Edit.
At the forefront of the international luxury audio/video marketplace, Goldmund recently introduced the "Reference II" turntable, priced at $300,000. The "Reference II," the world's most expensive turntable for the world's most demanding collectors of masterpieces, is also the most scientifically accurate, pushing the limits of physics and demonstrating the most advanced levels of technology.
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2008/02/goldmund_introduces_first_highend_bluray_player_16 900.php

OK, it could be waaay more than $30,000.

Another Edit. Someone on AVS said it's 100,000 Euros.:eek:

That only $142,000 American.:cool:

Thank you for your thoughts and views here; again, though, we have someone very passionate about the Panasonic not beating the Oppo in any respect -- is it the build quality, the DVD-V performance, the video quality on Blu-ray as well that leads you to this conclusion?

I can't see a big difference in Blu-ray video quality and could never justify the premium based solely on Blu-ray video quality. The Oppo player has more video and audio tweaking potential which may matter to some but the Panasonic player Blu-ray performance is very good. DVD-V and the high resolution audio formats justify the premium for me. The differences in Blu-ray quality between current properly working players is very small in my opinion.

The Oppo BDP-83 does appear and feel to be better made and my past experience with Oppo gives me confidence in that regard but both players are too new to know much. My concern that the Panasonic player would blow off the shelf if I sneezed may not mean anything over the long run. You will have to ask me in a few years if the Oppo turned out to be better built, right now it is mosly a hunch and not based on any observable problems with the Panasonic. Neither player has given me problems, the Oppo is heavier and feels like the better machine.

Chris

I thought we were comparing the OPPO to the PANASONIC -- now you're suggesting to look at a SONY? :confused:

Since this new issue has come to light with the current Panasonic BD60/80 models I would eliminate it. I have no such issues with my BD35 and perhaps you should have bought a BD35 when they were still in production, but it would be tough to find one new now. One of the pitfalls of waiting too long to buy one, and then the solid model is discontinued that I previously warned you about waiting too long to buy. ;)

I merely offered the Sony BDP360 as a cheaper alternative to the Oppo and a replacement to the current BD60 that apparently has an issue with skipping.

The Oppo is the better choice either way, but if you want something at half the Oppo price, then the Sony BDP360 is the likely choice.

like I said.. some people have had problems with the panasonic 60/80.. like the oppo they do have good service.. its true that they are not as quick.. but they do get it fixed unlike samsung with people still waiting.
I had the pansonic 30 and that was a fine player. never had a freeze problem.
i do know that panasonic is aware of the problem and working to get a fix either with a firmware or something else.
I remember the 30 had a problem with the bad drive.. people were able to send it in and get it replaced. for free if it was under the warrenty .. I think they will do the same if they cann't fix it with a firmware.

Jacob

You don't think that a claim made stating "not even in the same league" as another brand isn't subjective in the least bit?

I disagree.

But it seems we got awol in the mix again to stir the flame kettle, offering random statements including "I for one am glad you stuck around..." with regard to the length and essence of this thread, so it's going to go the way of the do do bird -- this thread, that is.



I suspect that's why everyone is here. ;)

His comment was a personal slash at me, which comes every so often in threads I create -- even though I have him on ignore, I see some of his comments through replies from others which quote him. :rolleyes:

Peter, get a clue. :banghead:

Your incessant back and forth with people in this thread and others like it (HDMI 1.4 anyone?? Or laser cleaning discs?) has driven people to the point where you make it impossible to help you. They have given their advice, and yet you counter it at every turn. Why bother asking if you're not going to take it? Frankly, it's insulting and I don't blame them for leaving the thread as they said they would.

Loves2Watch is a long-time respected member of this forum. I would hate for anything you've said in your threads to cause him to cease sharing his thoughts and opinions. And I've been following these threads closely as I've been thinking about dipping into the Oppo pool myself. So no, I'm not just in here to "slash" at you. I have better things to do with my time as stated previously.

But if you want people to genuinely help you, LET THEM.

Peter, get a clue. :banghead:

Your incessant back and forth with people in this thread and others like it (HDMI 1.4 anyone?? Or laser cleaning discs?) has driven people to the point where you make it impossible to help you. They have given their advice, and yet you counter it at every turn. Why bother asking if you're not going to take it? Frankly, it's insulting and I don't blame them for leaving the thread as they said they would.

Loves2Watch is a long-time respected member of this forum. I would hate for anything you've said in your threads to cause him to cease sharing his thoughts and opinions. And I've been following these threads closely as I've been thinking about dipping into the Oppo pool myself. So no, I'm not just in here to "slash" at you. I have better things to do with my time as stated previously.

But if you want people to genuinely help you, LET THEM.

I agree, its very frustrating when you give your advice when all the you do is tear it apart and say, "that's a big claim" or "I disagree". If your going to disagree with someone's advice, then I don't see why we should continue this thread. This has become a 2 year obsession for you Peter, at some point you have to act on all the advice, reviews and make an intelligent decision. You seem unable to do that even after all this time.

I don't see anything coming soon that's going to outclass the Oppo as a BD/DVD player for the money. Peter claims DVD performance is paramount. We may never see a BD player with meaningful superior DVD performance along with a reasonable price tag. Still asking questions and arguing at this point is simply to be argumentative. "What ifs" can be argued till the end of time.

I agree, its very frustrating when you give your advice when all the you do is tear it apart and say, "that's a big claim" or "I disagree". If your going to disagree with someone's advice, then I don't see why we should continue this thread. This has become a 2 year obsession for you Peter, at some point you have to act on all the advice, reviews and make an intelligent decision. You seem unable to do that even after all this time.

This has been going on with Peter for over two years now, with thousands of posts in response to his questions about Blu-ray and DVD player quality. He has been unhappy with his Panasonic player, primarily the DVD quality for a long time. I have made two or three hundred posts myself between here and High Def Digest in his threads in response to questions he has. With almost every new player introduction, the process starts all over.

Maybe others benefit from the never ending questions?

Chris

it started long before that.. he was banned from other forums for asking the same questions.. to be honest. I am surprise that he has survived 2 years in this forum.. when the other forums quit on him pretty early.

I think he means well. that he has good questions about tech stuff. i remember having problems with dvds and a poor rear projection tv. I dont know if he would be happy with a new blu ray player or not. I solved my problem with getting a better tv HDTV set.

Jacob

This has been going on with Peter for over two years now, with thousands of posts in response to his questions about Blu-ray and DVD player quality. He has been unhappy with his Panasonic player, primarily the DVD quality for a long time. I have made two or three hundred posts myself between here and High Def Digest in his threads in response to questions he has. With almost every new player introduction, the process starts all over.

Maybe others benefit from the never ending questions?

Chris

I get the impression that all Peter wants is to ask questions and talk about BD players, at least thats all he has shown us so far. These never ending questions show how difficult it is for him to make an intelligent decision based on advice and reviews that we have given him, he likes to pick apart other people's advice not to mention the Home Theater Magazine's reviewer.

Well since the Panasonic has a well documented freezing up issue we have no choice but to eliminate it. The Oppo is the only one still standing so the decision to buy is much easier now. The Oppo is officially the winner, unless you think we should add another.

I was asking PFC this question about the Panasonic(s) because he and I have some history regarding discussing that brand -- Tech, please do me a favor and calm the rhetoric down a little now, okay? It's bad enough you have Hatt egging you on and insulting someone when it's really irresponsible and cruel to do so (being that he and everyone else seems to know just about every American's budget situation) -- don't stoop to these levels.

It's already been established that these may or could be random freezing issues on the Panasonics, so why not leave it in the mix still if the DVD and BD performance is being considered "very good" at least?

Oh boy...this has turned into the pissing contest I thought it would eventually degrade into -- now there's "Jacob" (who has a difficult time putting a sentence together in the English language -- I NEEDED to add that because now HE has joined this never-ending cholub of harassment after I have told him COUNTLESS times that I was not "banned" from any particular forum for "asking questions several times;" way to go there, Jake; after I reached out to YOU to let sleeping dogs lie regarding OUR relationship. :rolleyes:;)) adding his two cents.

But let's move beyond that -- I have a very serious problem with comments by people like Tech and "awol" (who has become a personal thorn in my side already with his harassment -- I am going to discuss this with moderation teams NOW) who are claiming that all I want to do is rip other people's reviews apart and their work, and so forth, regarding the Oppo player. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. Awol tells me to "get a clue" (again -- I put this clown on my ignore list, but his comments continue to get seen via replies to other members) but that's just cruel rhetoric because his followup commentary about me having some kind of problem with L2W (which he DEFINITELY hinted at) is utter nonsense. Just because I asked questions about different players in different ways to make sure it's the right model FOR ME doesn't mean I didn't put any "faith" in anything he may know or have knowledge of. So, some "shutting of some members' pieholes" with regard to what they THINK they know about my intentions or feelings are in order.

This whole thing has gotten out of control -- no matter HOW many times I stress that I am truly in the market for a new BD player but seriously want to make sure I get the BEST model that's CURRENTLY available (given a price range) because it's going to affect my PROFESSION and freelance employment as well, everyone seems to snap back with childish, sarcastic, downright nasty remarks. As usual, it has brought some thoughtless, heartless and combative members -- the ones who immediately enter a thread (whether they be review threads or electronics based) and pour on the criticism, commentary and assumptions about someone's process regarding doing their work -- to laughs, and that's JUST not what this should be about.

I've decided to unsubscribe from the conversation, so have your moments of glory making fun of someone you don't EVEN KNOW from the privacy of your homes and anonymous status through a system I am beginning to believe shouldn't have even been created, the 'Net.

Settle down Peter, I'm just messing around with ya. If I started 20 different threads on whether I should vacuum the dust out of my PS3 or blow out the dust with compressed air, you'd probably have a little laugh too.;)

I have a very serious problem with comments by people like Tech and "awol" (who has become a personal thorn in my side already with his harassment.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could point out my alleged harassing comments, thanks Techlord. :)

they called it "banned" when you are kicked out of the forum.. you even signed up with differnt names, and still got banned.. that is how I found you here. since I did help in the other forums. I was explaining the history of you prior to this forum.
if you are serious about looking for a player.. pick one and go with it.
end of story.
Jacob

Settle down Peter, I'm just messing around with ya. If I started 20 different threads on whether I should vacuum the dust out of my PS3 or blow out the dust with compressed air, you'd probably have a little laugh too.;)

No... he would wonder why you weren't using the Maxell Blu Ray laser lens cleaner that he reviewed.

Calm down everyone please. If you do not have something constructive to say, simply do not respond to the thread going forward. ;)

I purchased my Oppo BDP-83 early this morning from Amazon a long with Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-ray Disc for calibration a long with The Fifth Element Remastered Blu-ray and The Matrix 10th Anniversary Edition. I'll be getting everything on Wednesday and the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc on Friday of next week, can't wait! :yippee:

I purchased my Oppo BDP-83 early this morning from Amazon a long with Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-ray Disc for calibration a long with The Fifth Element Remastered Blu-ray and The Matrix 10th Anniversary Edition. I'll be getting everything on Wednesday and the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc on Friday of next week, can't wait! :yippee:

CONGRATS!!! You are going to enjoy the hell out of the Oppo!

I love mine! It looks so cool sitting in my rack too!

I purchased my Oppo BDP-83 early this morning from Amazon a long with Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-ray Disc for calibration a long with The Fifth Element Remastered Blu-ray and The Matrix 10th Anniversary Edition. I'll be getting everything on Wednesday and the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc on Friday of next week, can't wait! :yippee:

Congrats!

I wish I could justify buying this Oppo player but right now I cannot. :crying:

Congrats!

I wish I could justify buying this Oppo player but right now I cannot. :crying:

Sure you can, just sell your Panny BD35 and one of your HD DVD players...

Sure you can, just sell your Panny BD35 and one of your HD DVD players...

Most of the HD DVD players are still fetching about $50 on eBay, while the A35 and XA2 are still selling for over $100.

Most of the HD DVD players are still fetching about $50 on eBay, while the A35 and XA2 are still selling for over $100.

JK anyway...No way I would even think about selling any of my HD DVD players.

JK anyway...No way I would even think about selling any of my HD DVD players.

Same here. I am definitely keeping mine as well.

Same here. I am definitely keeping mine as well.

Just curious why you would want to keep your HD DVD players? I still see people viewing in that section (HD-DVD) of this forum.

Just curious why you would want to keep your HD DVD players? I still see people viewing in that section (HD-DVD) of this forum.

Because I have many HD DVDs not available on BD and most don't even have a release date. Also, there are a few HD DVDs I own that were left untouched, while the BD version received DNR treatment. Also, my HD DVD players upconvert SD DVDs much better than my LG BH200 and marginally better than my PS3.

CONGRATS!!! You are going to enjoy the hell out of the Oppo!

I love mine! It looks so cool sitting in my rack too!

Thanks, it is my first BD player and almost paid to have it overnight or one-day shipping. I figured I could buy more Blu-ray content for the money it would have cost me in shipping. :D

Because I have many HD DVDs not available on BD and most don't even have a release date. Also, there are a few HD DVDs I own that were left untouched, while the BD version received DNR treatment. Also, my HD DVD players upconvert SD DVDs much better than my LG BH200 and marginally better than my PS3.

And there you have it. That's why so many of us will not let go of our GREAT HD DVD players...

did you keep your beta and laser disc player?

Jacob

did you keep your beta and laser disc player?

Jacob

There's just one issue to that. Beta and Laserdisc are obsolete technologies, but HD DVD is no different from BD.

did you keep your beta and laser disc player?

Jacob

Why would I, they won't play DVD's...

Just curious why you would want to keep your HD DVD players? I still see people viewing in that section (HD-DVD) of this forum.

You can still buy many great titles in HD for under $4.00 brand new on HD DVD and as was said many of those titles are not available on BD yet and some likely won't be for many years.

If you own both formats you can buy titles for $4.00 or pay $18-30.00 for the same title on BD. The player pays for itself in the much better buying power of HD movies at $4.00 instead of the much higher cost of BD. Never mind the excellent upscaling that most BD players cannot touch without paying $500.00 for an Oppo that ability. ;)

Imagine being able to buy 50 HD DVD movies for the same price you would pay for 10 BD movies. :D

did you keep your beta and laser disc player?

Jacob

As was stated, HD DVD is the same as BD and it does not wear out like Beta does, and doesn't take up the room that Laser discs do. Not to mention that NEITHER of those have HD PQ not HD audio.

the point of the questions.. was there were keeping other dead formats.

beta lost to VHS and laser disc lost too..

I had HDdvd.. but I gave it away.. I am very happy with bluray. most of the movies that I had on HDdvd.. already got on bluray.

Jacob

the point of the questions.. was there were keeping other dead formats.

beta lost to VHS and laser disc lost too..

I had HDdvd.. but I gave it away.. I am very happy with bluray. most of the movies that I had on HDdvd.. already got on bluray.

Jacob

So your happy paying around $20.00 for a movie you already had on HD DVD? Are you happy about paying around $20.00 on the BD movies also instead of around $4.00 for those out on HD DVD?

If so that is great, but don't think everyone else should be happy to pay 5x the money. ;)

to pay a few bucks for a dead format seems like a really dumb idea..

Jacob

to pay a few bucks for a dead format seems like a really dumb idea..

Jacob

I just wanted to reiterate that it may be dead, but it is still equivalent to Blu-ray.

to pay a few bucks for a dead format seems like a really dumb idea..

Jacob

This forum has always been a hotbed for devoted HD DVD fans. For most people having a second HD disc player in any given system is undesirable so you are with the mainstream obviously, which is why the discs have to be sold for prices mostly under $5 now.

Although I hoped HD DVD would never launch and once it did, hoped it would immediately die, I have players and discs myself and the format works fine. Despite what they will state here, it isn't as good as Blu-ray. The limited bandwidth and capacity made it inferior. Blu-ray uses 25GB per layer compared to 15GB for HD DVD and Blu-ray has a maximum bitrate of 48Mbps compared to 30Mbps for HD DVD. One obvious result of the differences is that Blu-ray uses lossless audio most of the time and HD DVD used Dolby Digital Plus as the best audio option most of the time. When Blu-ray didn't use lossless audio, it was usually from Warner, Universal and Paramount due to the fact those companies needed one encode to work for both and that encode was forced to the lowest common denominator.

Chris

As was stated, HD DVD is the same as BD and it does not wear out like Beta does, and doesn't take up the room that Laser discs do. Not to mention that NEITHER of those have HD PQ not HD audio.

This falsehood was often stated here but that never made it true. HD DVD isn't the same as Blu-ray which is the reason only one company ever made stand alone HD DVD players while almost an entire industry has made Blu-ray players. With over 60% greater capacity and 60% greater maximum bitrate, Blu-ray is a better and more flexible format. HD DVD works great, but get away from this forum and most are happy with the outcome that HD DVD is a footnote in history.

It is true that HD DVD discs are way less expensive but that is a direct result of the fact the product failed in the marketplace. You won't see a large market jump at a failed product when it is clearance priced because it can't sell at a higher price. For the most part, HD DVD supporters have bailed, selling collections and players.

Chris

I just wanted to reiterate that it may be dead, but it is still equivalent to Blu-ray.

I will reiterate that it is dead because it isn't equivalent to Blu-ray. It was less expensive and still failed, hardly and indication it was equivalent.

Chris

Because I have many HD DVDs not available on BD and most don't even have a release date. Also, there are a few HD DVDs I own that were left untouched, while the BD version received DNR treatment. Also, my HD DVD players upconvert SD DVDs much better than my LG BH200 and marginally better than my PS3.

I don't find that any HD DVD player upconverts anamorphic DVD much better than the LG BH200. The feature to upconvert 4:3 DVD and maintain correct aspect ratio is supposedly going to be added with the next BH200 firmware update and that will make the BH200 even better. I find it an annoyance to have to change to 480p when playing 4:3 DVD. The only HD DVD player I prefer to the BH200 for DVD is the HD-XA2 and clones and then only sightly. I think the BH200 beats all of the others.

Chris

I remember right before the death of HD DVD they made a triple layer HD DVD disc, but even that wasn't good enough. If the Blu-ray format needed a third layer I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, accept new players would be needed. Was the capacity of the Blu-ray disc the only reason for its victory?

I think there were a few factors in blu ray corner. one was more support from studio. more disc space, and of course better copyright protection.
Once I had gone bluray. I never looked back on HDdvd. bluray had more titles that I wanted. I think I only had like 18 or so titles of Hddvd. I still have a 4 left. that is okay.. I own 3 of the titles on bluray already. not a problem.
I agree with you chris about this matter. thanks for the support.

Jacob

I remember right before the death of HD DVD they made a triple layer HD DVD disc, but even that wasn't good enough. If the Blu-ray format needed a third layer I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, accept new players would be needed. Was the capacity of the Blu-ray disc the only reason for its victory?

I read the rumors about a triple layer HD DVD along with the rumors that some existing players couldn't reliably play the disc. I never saw a triple layer HD DVD and never read any claim it would actually be used and as far as I know, it was never used.

Chris

This falsehood was often stated here but that never made it true. HD DVD isn't the same as Blu-ray which is the reason only one company ever made stand alone HD DVD players while almost an entire industry has made Blu-ray players. With over 60% greater capacity and 60% greater maximum bitrate, Blu-ray is a better and more flexible format. HD DVD works great, but get away from this forum and most are happy with the outcome that HD DVD is a footnote in history.

It is true that HD DVD discs are way less expensive but that is a direct result of the fact the product failed in the marketplace. You won't see a large market jump at a failed product when it is clearance priced because it can't sell at a higher price. For the most part, HD DVD supporters have bailed, selling collections and players.

Chris

Here you go again with all of the Blu-ray FUD and unfounded claims. Get a life, HD DVD was and is just as good as Blu-ray. It has been proven, without a doubt by professionals time and time again. Your numbers mean nothing, performance does...And, BTW the manufacturing equipment for HD DVD only required a retrofit of SD DVD plants whereas Blu-ray required a very expensive replacement of all equipment.

If for some strange reason HD DVD came back to market I would have no problem using it as MY HD video choice. Less expensive, less problematic, no extra memory cards needed and so on and so on...

I read the rumors about a triple layer HD DVD along with the rumors that some existing players couldn't reliably play the disc. I never saw a triple layer HD DVD and never read any claim it would actually be used and as far as I know, it was never used.

Chris

But right at the end of HD DVD's life the triple layer disc was adopted as a standard and had HD DVD lived we would see discs pressed on them, that is if if the extra space was needed.

I remember right before the death of HD DVD they made a triple layer HD DVD disc, but even that wasn't good enough. If the Blu-ray format needed a third layer I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, accept new players would be needed. Was the capacity of the Blu-ray disc the only reason for its victory?

Sony buying off studios to only support Blu-ray was the main reason. Once Warner accepted it meant the end for HD DVD as there would only be two studios pressing HD DVD movies.

For the most part, HD DVD supporters have bailed, selling collections and players.

Talk about falsehoods...In fact almost the reverse is true.

I will reiterate that it is dead because it isn't equivalent to Blu-ray. It was less expensive and still failed, hardly and indication it was equivalent.

No it wasn't equivalent it was better. Let me explain this to you - 1. Cheaper to manufacture. 2. First on the market with a completed format. 3. Equipment didn't require add ons. 4. Upscales SD DVD's better (used better upscaling chips). 5. Less firmware update problems (one thing that still plagues many Blu-ray players). 6. The only reason it failed was because of the exclusive contracts movie studios signed with Sony and the BDA (can you say collusion, payola, etc). 7. If HD DVD were alive today it would be the format of choice.

Chris we know how much you hate HD DVD so I can't figure out why you even own one yet you do, even today when you say most have sold theirs (that should say something in itself). But please quit spreading all of the FUD you did then and now about Blu-ray superiority 'cause it just ain't so and there is much data to prove that.

On paper BD was better, but in the real world it was close with HD DVD looking and sounding better for most people with the equipment they already had. There were double blind tests done with DD+ @ 1.5mbps compared to lossless and hardly anyone could guess which was which. And that was with studio grade audio equipment. ;)

Another big thing that was much better with HD DVD was they used HDi instead of the resource hog BD-JAVA that causes longer wait times for discs to load, more problems because not all encoding shops/studios use the same version of JAVA so there are incompatibilities which cause more firmware updates and delays in actually watching some new BD releases. Add in the additional copy protection that causes even more firmware updates and BD is worse in this aspect.

At this point if they resolved the BD-Java incompatibilities, and came up with a universal DRM update scheme I would truly love BD, and no miss HD DVD. This resolutions seem very unlikely though.

My original point was people who already have HD DVD can now get true HD movies for around $4.00 compared around $20.00 for BD titles. There were hard core BD fans here who actually bought HD DVD after it's demise for just these reasons.

Why did the big movie studios back Blu-ray ober HD DVD? It couldn't have been just because of the increased capacity, could it?

Why did the big movie studios back Blu-ray ober HD DVD? It couldn't have been just because of the increased capacity, could it?

The consumer electronics companies backed Blu-ray first, only Toshiba held out. Most companies knew from the start, the market could not sustain two formats so the best of the two was the choice for most companies given that fact.

Chris

Why did the big movie studios back Blu-ray ober HD DVD? It couldn't have been just because of the increased capacity, could it?

Because they were paid by Sony and the BDA to be Blu-ray exclusive. That IS the reason, the true reason. Otherwise HD DVD would have already saturated the market with inexpensive players which would have been the demise of Blu-ray.

Damn lag...

Most companies knew from the start, the market could not sustain two formats so the best of the two was the choice for most companies given that fact.

Chris

What a bunch of FUD, still. Complete nonsense. Calling a black horse white doesn't make it so...

hmm.
it seems that peter has become a member of blu-ray.com forum and asking the same questions that he has over here..

http:///showthread.php?p=2215840#post2215840

let the battle begin.

Jacob

hmm.
it seems that peter has become a member of blu-ray.com forum and asking the same questions that he has over here..

http:///showthread.php?p=2215840#post2215840

let the battle begin.

Jacob

How funny, I wondered where he disappeared to. Anyhow Peter is asking all of the same questions that have been answered here, seems as though history is repeating itself! It doesn't matter how many times people give the Oppo a enthusiastic thumbs up, its never going to be enough.

hmm.
it seems that peter has become a member of blu-ray.com forum and asking the same questions that he has over here..

http:///showthread.php?p=2215840#post2215840

let the battle begin.

Jacob

Too funny.

Chris

and so the war continues..............

Because they were paid by Sony and the BDA to be Blu-ray exclusive. That IS the reason, the true reason. Otherwise HD DVD would have already saturated the market with inexpensive players which would have been the demise of Blu-ray.

I agree with Chris on many things but, the above is the truth of what happened in regards tothe forum war and what ended it.

Blu-Ray is now finally getting to be as good as HD DVD was over a year ago.

I agree with Chris on many things but, the above is the truth of what happened in regards tothe forum war and what ended it.

Blu-Ray is now finally getting to be as good as HD DVD was over a year ago.

I am still waiting for the evidence that Sony and/or the BDA paid Warner to go Blu-ray exclusive. The only evidence of any payment by either side to any studio I have seen was the admission by all parties involved that Toshiba paid Paramount/DreamWorks to be HD DVD exclusive. This fact was also supported by financial statement disclosures. Warner and Sony have both denied the payment to Warner and no financial disclosures have been brought to contradict that claim to the best of my knowledge.

Despite cheap HD DVD players, the PS3 outsold all HD DVD players including the XBox 360 add-on combined about 15-1. The PS3 playing Blu-ray beat all HD DVD players playing HD DVD immediately, loading faster with more reliable playback, so I have no idea how you come up with the silly claim that Blu-ray is just now as good as HD DVD. Blu-ray was better from the start, I base that opinion on owning both and reading objective and subjective reviews of the products. One consumer electronics company supported HD DVD exclusively while many supported Blu-ray exclusively. The PS3 and industry support is the reason Blu-ray won the silly format war less than two years after it began. Toshiba was selling HD DVD players at a loss to try to get players in consumer's hands, but the price necessary to compete would have had to have been much lower than it was. The market perception was that Blu-ray was worth more and it turns out it was.

Chris

I am still waiting for the evidence that Sony and/or the BDA paid Warner to go Blu-ray exclusive. The only evidence of any payment by either side to any studio I have seen was the admission by all parties involved that Toshiba paid Paramount/DreamWorks to be HD DVD exclusive. This fact was also supported by financial statement disclosures. Warner and Sony have both denied the payment to Warner and no financial disclosures have been brought to contradict that claim to the best of my knowledge.

Despite cheap HD DVD players, the PS3 outsold all HD DVD players including the XBox 360 add-on combined about 15-1. The PS3 playing Blu-ray beat all HD DVD players playing HD DVD immediately, loading faster with more reliable playback, so I have no idea how you come up with the silly claim that Blu-ray is just now as good as HD DVD. Blu-ray was better from the start, I base that opinion on owning both and reading objective and subjective reviews of the products. One consumer electronics company supported HD DVD exclusively while many supported Blu-ray exclusively. The PS3 and industry support is the reason Blu-ray won the silly format war less than two years after it began. Toshiba was selling HD DVD players at a loss to try to get players in consumer's hands, but the price necessary to compete would have had to have been much lower than it was. The market perception was that Blu-ray was worth more and it turns out it was.

Chris

You have NEVER been objective when comparing Blu-ray to HD DVD as you drank the Sony/BDA kool aid quite early on.

Why do you say that, L2W? Just curious of your opinions here...

It's not outstanding in any way. Just another re-branded Funai player.

the main reason CE companies went with BD is because Microsoft Monoply, HDi was the reason HD DVD was easy to implement, CE companies don't want to be bullied by MS licensing (expensive) agreement. With MS pushing for media center PCs and integrating PC with movies and entertainment they all got scared and backed a format which was far worse than HD DVD, all the BS that BD forum has touted is not true, they wanted one disc with large capacity as compared to 25 GB capacity of HD DVD but the reality there two or three discs still coming out (just like DVDs and HD DVDs), Sound quality is not much difference between DD+ @ 1.5 Mbps and TrueHD or DTS HD MA. The realt problems is BD Java and people have many problems with new movies, manufacturers have to update FW almost every month to keep up with movies releases. HD DVD was complete format from the moment it was launched (very minor updates needed).

the main reason CE companies went with BD is because Microsoft Monoply, HDi was the reason HD DVD was easy to implement, CE companies don't want to be bullied by MS licensing (expensive) agreement. With MS pushing for media center PCs and integrating PC with movies and entertainment they all got scared and backed a format which was far worse than HD DVD, all the BS that BD forum has touted is not true, they wanted one disc with large capacity as compared to 25 GB capacity of HD DVD but the reality there two or three discs still coming out (just like DVDs and HD DVDs), Sound quality is not much difference between DD+ @ 1.5 Mbps and TrueHD or DTS HD MA. The realt problems is BD Java and people have many problems with new movies, manufacturers have to update FW almost every month to keep up with movies releases. HD DVD was complete format from the moment it was launched (very minor updates needed).

HD DVD players required firmware updates from the start and the last one came many months after the end had been announced. It can certainly be your opinion that Dolby Digital Plus sounds as good as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA but that does not make it true, that only makes it your opinion. I prefer the lossless audio codecs.

The facts are simple, Blu-ray uses 25GB per layer compared to 15GB per layer for HD DVD and Blu-ray has a maximum bitrate of 48Mpbs compared to 30Mpbs for HD DVD. I do understand that those enormous differences, a 60% or greater advantage for Blu-ray, didn't mean anything if you were pulling for HD DVD, but that is a rather silly position to take. I prefer the better technical specifications. The enormous advantage Blu-ray had within the industry with far greater support including the two biggest consumer electronics companies exclusive support, was huge as well which is why Toshiba pissed away a half billion dollars or so and threw in the towel without anything to show for it. It was absurd that HD DVD ever launched with such little support and inferior specifications and as most expected all it could ever accomplish is what it did accomplish, confuse the market until it exited the market. HD DVD was a huge failure from a business point of view. It was a risky longshot that Toshiba must regret taking now, fortunately few other companies put themselves in the position to lose any money on the folly.

Chris

Chris don't you at least wish that BD had chosen HDi over BD-Java? I know I sure do.

Chris don't you at least wish that BD had chosen HDi over BD-Java? I know I sure do.

I don't know what ulitimately will be possible with BD-Java but as it stands right now, HDi sure seems to me to be better suited for the purpose. I would have to read about the two to see if I would prefer HDi and will do that at some point but for right now I will have to say I don't know. The bare bones releases using HDMV navigation structure, no Java, no special features and a lower price are fine with me. I almost always play the movie and nothing else.

Chris

I don't know what ulitimately will be possible with BD-Java but as it stands right now, HDi sure seems to me to be better suited for the purpose. I would have to read about the two to see if I would prefer HDi and will do that at some point but for right now I will have to say I don't know. The bare bones releases using HDMV navigation structure, no Java, no special features and a lower price are fine with me. I almost always play the movie and nothing else.

Chris

That thread with the responses from Oppo about the many different versions of Java being used by the various studios/productions houses alone makes me wish they chose HDi, over Java for this compatibility issue alone.

Java has been a resource/power hog in every iteration/application I have seen it used, so I have little doubt that they could have sped up the disc loading and surely the signle version of HDi faster as time went on and could have been close to SD DVD disc loading IMO.

We have what we have now, but i sure wish they chose HDi for the interface myself.

Oppo released a new beta firmware undate for most fixes yesterday, don't update unless your having a problem though.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Support.aspx


Comparing to the latest official release version BDP83-31-0620, the major changes included in this version are:

1.Blu-ray Disc compatibility improvement, especially for certain titles such as "Lie to Me", "Dollhouse Season 1", "12 Rounds" and "The Haunting in Connecticut".
2.Additional "Deep Color" options utilizing dithering. If the display does not support 36-bit deep color, dithering 36-bit to 30-bit or 24-bit may produce an image that is visually smoother than rounding 36-bit to 30- or 24-bit.
3.Improved precision for color space conversion.
4.Improved up-conversion for MKV files that have a picture size smaller than 1280x720 with 24fps frame rate.
5.Improvement for DVD-A disc compatibility. The specific titles targeted include "Beck: Sea Change" and DVD-A discs released in Japan by JVC.
6.Improvement for DVD navigation.
7.Improvement for compatibility with Denon receivers that only acquire 2ch DSD signal upon initial playback of a SACD multi-channel disc.
8.Improvement for compatibility with receivers that show "no signal" but play audio when a CD is played using HDMI bitstream output mode.
9.Fix for the issue of subtitle being cut off when playing a PAL DVD.
10.New pop-up user interface for audio and subtitle selection.
11.Improved GOTO function for music file playback. The GOTO function now allows the user to jump to a certain time point within a music file.
12.Other general disc compatibility and performance improvements. The specific titles targeted include the CD "The Saturday Nite Agenda", DVD "IL DIVO - Live at the Greek Theater", Blu-ray "Fired Up" and a few other discs.
All features and improvements of the previous firmware are also included in this version.

Oppo released a new beta firmware undate for most fixes yesterday, don't update unless your having a problem though.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Support.aspx

Might be worth it just based on the movie titles. I recall a fair number of complaints about the ones listed. Why wait until you decide to watch one of those But again, if you can wait, best to get a fully released update than an experimental one.

Might be worth it just based on the movie titles. I recall a fair number of complaints about the ones listed. Why wait until you decide to watch one of those But again, if you can wait, best to get a fully released update than an experimental one.

It's still a new product, I'm sure Oppo will be even faster once they mature their newly released BD player. I'm a patient person, but have had no problems so far. It hasen't even been 3 months since it's released.

Might be worth it just based on the movie titles. I recall a fair number of complaints about the ones listed. Why wait until you decide to watch one of those But again, if you can wait, best to get a fully released update than an experimental one.

It's still a new product, I'm sure Oppo will be even faster once they mature their newly released BD player. I'm a patient person, but have had no problems so far. It hasen't even been 3 months since it's released.

The sad thing is that after over 3 years of the BD format's release we are STILL having these kinds of compatibility issues. There really is no need for these kinds of issues now, and it really breaks down to two main reasons IMO. They are:

1. The BDA is NOT doing what they should to tighten and freeze the "standard" in particular with Java not being frozen with ONE version for all participants. They really need to do this ASAP.

2. Dynamic copy protection allowing studios to change the DRM at will and without sufficient warning to hardware player mfg so they can have the changes in place long before the movie gets released with these changes. It seems the studios do not do this as that would also tip off the pirates of the changes, but the consumer (and also player mfg) is the big loser. It seems the studios want you to buy the movie during that all important "window" right after release but do not care if you cannot actually watch it because they didn't give mfg enough time to implement the DRM changes in a firmware update.

It is looking more like the tail is wagging the dog with the BD format IMO.

The sad thing is that after over 3 years of the BD format's release we are STILL having these kinds of compatibility issues. There really is no need for these kinds of issues now, and it really breaks down to two main reasons IMO. They are:

1. The BDA is NOT doing what they should to tighten and freeze the "standard" in particular with Java not being frozen with ONE version for all participants. They really need to do this ASAP.

2. Dynamic copy protection allowing studios to change the DRM at will and without sufficient warning to hardware player mfg so they can have the changes in place long before the movie gets released with these changes. It seems the studios do not do this as that would also tip off the pirates of the changes, but the consumer (and also player mfg) is the big loser. It seems the studios want you to buy the movie during that all important "window" right after release but do not care if you cannot actually watch it because they didn't give mfg enough time to implement the DRM changes in a firmware update.

It is looking more like the tail is wagging the dog with the BD format IMO.

The Blu-ray format is the only available High Definition format right now for HDTV's, and I don't see anything replacing it anytime soon. The Movie Studios and the BDA are pulling the strings now, it's not like there will be any competition going up against Blu-ray to replace it. The Movie Studios are exactly where they want to be, the only thing that could dethrone Blu-ray is the consumers saying I don't want it anymore.

Maybe the future will see streaming HD movies from companies like Netflix to where we can no longer own a collection of discs, what a nightmare!!

Talk about falsehoods...In fact almost the reverse is true.



No it wasn't equivalent it was better. Let me explain this to you - 1. Cheaper to manufacture. 2. First on the market with a completed format. 3. Equipment didn't require add ons. 4. Upscales SD DVD's better (used better upscaling chips). 5. Less firmware update problems (one thing that still plagues many Blu-ray players). 6. The only reason it failed was because of the exclusive contracts movie studios signed with Sony and the BDA (can you say collusion, payola, etc). 7. If HD DVD were alive today it would be the format of choice.

Chris we know how much you hate HD DVD so I can't figure out why you even own one yet you do, even today when you say most have sold theirs (that should say something in itself). But please quit spreading all of the FUD you did then and now about Blu-ray superiority 'cause it just ain't so and there is much data to prove that.

not so sure about the upscaling. still have me A2 hooked up next to me BD30, both via HDMI directly to me sammy plasma. originally played all me dvd's through the A2,,,,,but as we started buying more BD's,,,and just got in the habit of using the BD player,,,,,,don't know if its me eyes, but the lass and lad also agree that the BD player just has a better look when playing sd dvd's. :2cents

BTW, Most of the high end video demonstrations (and some audio) of front projectors or home theater set ups of at the CEDIA show in Atlanta this week that were not specifically brand matched were using the Oppo as their Blu-ray player.

BTW, Most of the high end video demonstrations (and some audio) of front projectors or home theater set ups of at the CEDIA show in Atlanta this week that were not specifically brand matched were using the Oppo as their Blu-ray player.

Could the Oppo be 8X times faster than a standalone Blu-ray player? I think Pioneer should make a standalone hard drive with this Managed Copy technology that could plug into one of the two USB port on the Oppo, not sure if others players even have a USB port though.

HD DVD players required firmware updates from the start and the last one came many months after the end had been announced. It can certainly be your opinion that Dolby Digital Plus sounds as good as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA but that does not make it true, that only makes most people couldn't tell it your opinion. I prefer the lossless audio codecs.(So do I but most people couldn't tell the difference)

The facts are simple, Blu-ray uses 25GB per layer compared to 15GB(mostly 30GB not 15GB)per layer for HD DVD and Blu-ray has a maximum bitrate of 48Mpbs compared to 30Mpbs for HD DVD. I do understand that those enormous differences, a 60% or greater advantage for Blu-ray, didn't mean anything if you were pulling for HD DVD, but that is a rather silly position to take. I prefer the better technical specifications. The enormous advantage Blu-ray had within the industry with far greater support including the two biggest consumer electronics companies exclusive support, was huge as well which is why Toshiba pissed away a half billion dollars ( Sony spent at least 3 billion )or so and threw in the towel without anything to show for it. It was absurd that HD DVD ever launched with such little support and inferior specifications and as most expected all it could ever accomplish is what it did accomplish, confuse the market until it exited the market. HD DVD was a huge failure from a business point of view. It was a risky longshot that Toshiba must regret taking now, fortunately few other companies put themselves in the position to lose any money on the folly.

Chris

:rolleyes:

Chris don't you at least wish that BD had chosen HDi over BD-Java? I know I sure do.

I do and what a pain in the ass bd-java is.

I do and what a pain in the ass bd-java is.

Yeah, BD-Java is like the stepchild you never wanted.

Yeah, BD-Java is like the stepchild you never wanted.

Was there a reason behind the decision to go Java instead of something better?

Was there a reason behind the decision to go Java instead of something better?

Java was stated to be more powerful and versatile, but Java in general is a power hungry app, and there are so many version out there that are not fully compatible that this is part of the reason BD players need so many updates.

I think it was more about business politics than anything else though.

Java was stated to be more powerful and versatile, but Java in general is a power hungry app, and there are so many version out there that are not fully compatible that this is part of the reason BD players need so many updates.

I think it was more about business politics than anything else though.

Like you have said before the BDA needs to come out with one universal version of Java for all the Blu-ray players if that's even possible.

Hopefully they will or what good is having a "standard" without a standard?

:rolleyes:

You prefer the lossless audio codecs which HD DVD couldn't use often due to limited bandwidth and capacity but because most people in your opinion can't tell any difference that is a reason to believe HD DVD is better. That is about as absurd as the other opinions in favor of HD DVD, total nonsense.

Sony lost $3 billion getting the PS3 in consumer's hands which obviously did work to Blu-ray's advantage, but I would state the majority of that loss should be allocated to the game console aspect which has profit potential to recoup a larger amount than the Blu-ray videodisc aspect which can be profitable but never, ever recover much of that investment.

Chris

I have never seen this issue everyone has with Java. I put the disc in, it plays. :what:

I have never seen this issue everyone has with Java. I put the disc in, it plays. :what:

Do you ever do firmware updates? I think more of these updates are for the different versions of Java being used by the various companies like the studios, encoding houses etc. I base this on what Oppo said in a reply about their early issues.

Do you ever do firmware updates? I think more of these updates are for the different versions of Java being used by the various companies like the studios, encoding houses etc. I base this on what Oppo said in a reply about their early issues.
Sure I do updates all the time, PS3. Who knows what updates are required for the BD feature.

HD DVD players required updates too. Looks even to me, unless Java IS more "capable" for future uses in which Java would be the clear winner.

Sure I do updates all the time, PS3. Who knows what updates are required for the BD feature.

HD DVD players required updates too. Looks even to me, unless Java IS more "capable" for future uses in which Java would be the clear winner.

Yes I know HD DVD needed them also, but that was near the beginning and not 3+ years into the format. I think most of the HD DVD player updates were hardware tweaks and not much was for the HDi menu/interactive system.

The stated reason to go with Java was it was said to be more powerful but I never saw anything that showed this in actual products. The programming time & expertise (costlier programmers) is greater with Java, it is more of a power hog, and there are so many iterations/versions being used as the real problem IMO.

This is WHY I believe they need to settle on one version of Java and force this version on all parties. After all, what good is a standard that isn't a standard? ;)

This is not about HD DVD vs BD, as that ship has sailed already. It is about improving the BD format and making it as simple and hassle free as possible for the masses. The masses like to keep a device until it breaks, not because you cannot get updates timely to watch new movies on it. If they stuck to only ONE version of Java then the only firmware updates would be for the dynamic DRM. And yes, this DRM would still be an issue if HD DVD had won. :p ;)

They should work on BD and get the most out of it they can. That would seem to be of the greatest value to me. Not locking in some arbitrary version for all time when you don't have to. Tech moves way too fast these days to have a stagnant product in 2009. You wouldn't even consider a computer that couldn't be updated. Most people have accepted updates, certainly even remotely computer savvy people. Most of the complaints about updates around here were in response to the war, not because updates were so bad.

They should work on BD and get the most out of it they can. That would seem to be of the greatest value to me. Not locking in some arbitrary version for all time when you don't have to. Tech moves way too fast these days to have a stagnant product in 2009. You wouldn't even consider a computer that couldn't be updated. Most people have accepted updates, certainly even remotely computer savvy people. Most of the complaints about updates around here were in response to the war, not because updates were so bad.

But that is not the case now IMO. We are looking at not being able to play new releases because the studios keep changing things. This would not be too much of a problem except that some BD ploayer mfg are not getting those updates timely from the studio and/or are not updating the players timely. This gives the masses a sour taste i think.

Also food for thought is what happens when the BD player mfg decide to stop providing updates for the changes? You know they cannot continue to do this forever and remain profitable right? Think of how daunting the task would be for them to do this for the countless different models they will build up over the years. ;)

I know you have a PS3 so Sony will likely continue for years on them, but what about the other SAL BD players? When does it become "acceptable" to have a perfectly working BD player not be any good be3cause it cannot play new releases because the mfg stopped providing those updates?

This is why I only feel comfortable recommending Panasonic or Sony BD players because they have the biggest stake in royalties, etc. and will likely do them for the longest period.

I have never seen this issue everyone has with Java. I put the disc in, it plays. :what:

That is certainly true with my Sony players but only true about 92% of the time with my Samsung BD-P1200. If I recall correctly about 8% of the titles the last time I checked at AVSForums when someone was keeping a list wouldn't even load with that player, they would get stuck at the menu. I don't know how much was because of Java or how much was because of DRM changes or other causes but some significant portion was directly related to Java. Usually if the menu wouldn't load, the issue was attributed to BD-Java, either improper implementation or a new implementation.

I still haven't figured out the great things that are supposed to be possible with BD-Java but whatever it is can't be great enough to justify creating problems with loading movies. I hope it is figured out and fixed but if all you have is a PS3, you probably don't even know there is a problem. The PS3 can load the problematic discs quickly and painlessly, almost without exception.

Chris

That is certainly true with my Sony players but only true about 92% of the time with my Samsung BD-P1200. If I recall correctly about 8% of the titles the last time I checked at AVSForums when someone was keeping a list wouldn't even load with that player, they would get stuck at the menu. I don't know how much was because of Java or how much was because of DRM changes or other causes but some significant portion was directly related to Java. Usually if the menu wouldn't load, the issue was attributed to BD-Java, either improper implementation or a new implementation.

I still haven't figured out the great things that are supposed to be possible with BD-Java but whatever it is can't be great enough to justify creating problems with loading movies. I hope it is figured out and fixed but if all you have is a PS3, you probably don't even know there is a problem. The PS3 can load the problematic discs quickly and painlessly, almost without exception.

Chris

I agree Chris. What good is a powerful interface if you cannot even load a movie with IS the primary purpose of these players.

I think one of the reasons the PS3 can load pretty much all discs is because it is a super computer and I bet it has multiple versions of Java programs stored to handle just about anything that it encountered including the multiple iterations/versions of Java used to encode these discs.

It looks like Java's getting the bad rap when it's actually a hardware/manufacturer problem. If some brands handle it without issue and some have problems, that tells me something.

It looks like Java's getting the bad rap when it's actually a hardware/manufacturer problem. If some brands handle it without issue and some have problems, that tells me something.

I do not see it that way. I am seeing that two companies Panasonic & Sony who have the most invested in BD seem to be the only ones on top of the updates proactively. That does not make the issue a hardware issue since they are using the same chips etc. in the players. The problem is just a symptom of the real problem and that is that the BDA has still not frozen the "standard". This problem will not be resolved until they do and it will turn many "average" people off to the format.

Us HT propeller heads may complain but we will not stop buying, but we make up only a small portion of the intended audience.

I do not see it that way. I am seeing that two companies Panasonic & Sony who have the most invested in BD seem to be the only ones on top of the updates proactively. That does not make the issue a hardware issue since they are using the same chips etc. in the players. The problem is just a symptom of the real problem and that is that the BDA has still not frozen the "standard". This problem will not be resolved until they do and it will turn many "average" people off to the format.

Us HT propeller heads may complain but we will not stop buying, but we make up only a small portion of the intended audience.

You can stop with the fear mongering. The war's over. BD isn't going anywhere. People that want BD are going to buy the players, and even update them if they need to. Some manufactures are going to step up and offer great products, some are just going to try and sell some stuff. I want the best product available, not for everyone in the World to be watching BD. Like I said, I think we're better off having a product that can be refined a little along the way and maybe features added instead of being stuck in 2009 or if many had their way 2007. You lock in something now, you're going to stop potential innovation. Not to mention that every product that now makes it to market is technically outdated already. There definitely will not be anything to now come along that will not require frequent updates and will likely require total integration with the internet. BD was just released in a transitional time and some people holding on to the old ways. :2cents

You can stop with the fear mongering. The war's over. BD isn't going anywhere. People that want BD are going to buy the players, and even update them if they need to. Some manufactures are going to step up and offer great products, some are just going to try and sell some stuff. I want the best product available, not for everyone in the World to be watching BD. Like I said, I think we're better off having a product that can be refined a little along the way and maybe features added instead of being stuck in 2009 or if many had their way 2007. You lock in something now, you're going to stop potential innovation. Not to mention that every product that now makes it to market is technically outdated already. There definitely will not be anything to now come along that will not require frequent updates and will likely require total integration with the internet. BD was just released in a transitional time and some people holding on to the old ways. :2cents

It has nothing to do with the format war that is long over or "fear mongering". It is me the consumer seeing a problem that needs to be fixed IMO.

You are missing the other side of that double edge sword though. By having the format change and require fairly frequent updates means that once the mfg stops providing those updates, the player becomes dead weight for new releases. ;)

Me, I would rather have a stable product that doesn't become dead while still operating as designed myself. I have a 10 year old RCA SD DVD player that still plays ALL SD DVDs. We will likely not be able to say that about BD players though. :huh

So tell me how long should these BD player mfg keep providing these updates for the BD players? 3 years? 5 years, 10 years? Who do you think is paying for that cost? These players will become obsolete because the updates stop more likely than because some new gimmick to put on the disc as an extra became unplayable because they finally froze the Java version.

What have you seen that has come along since the last say 3 Java updates in the last 6-9 months encoded on discs that is MORE important than simply playing the damn movie? I sure have not seen such a ground breaking feature, and even if one did come along, the older players likely would still have issues even IF they were still getting updates because of the hardware limitations.

Having to choose between playing the new release movies for many years or the speculation of some great new "feature" nobody has even thought of yet causing problems or requiring me to replace a otherwise working BD player, will have me taking the former over the later every day of the week. :hithere:

This is not about which format is better as this might have happened to some extent with HD DVD had it won too. It has to do with mfg obsoleting the players that still work because they cannot afford to provide updates for 10 years after a product comes out at the current prices they can charge.

Is the avg consumer, on a whole, seeing a problem? Most probably don't even know about updates, and when they find out, they just simply update. If manufacturers are dragging their feet, that's certainly a problem. But once again, who's fault is it? Since some manufacturers are able to do it right and some are not, it's a manufacturer problem. A good reason to buy from Sam's since you can quickly get relief from crappy manufacturers.

It has nothing to do with the format war that is long over or "fear mongering". It is me the consumer seeing a problem that needs to be fixed IMO.

You are missing the other side of that double edge sword though. By having the format change and require fairly frequent updates means that once the mfg stops providing those updates, the player becomes dead weight for new releases. ;)

Me, I would rather have a stable product that doesn't become dead while still operating as designed myself. I have a 10 year old RCA SD DVD player that still plays ALL SD DVDs. We will likely not be able to say that about BD players though. :huh

So tell me how long should these BD player mfg keep providing these updates for the BD players? 3 years? 5 years, 10 years? Who do you think is paying for that cost? These players will become obsolete because the updates stop more likely than because some new gimmick to put on the disc as an extra became unplayable because they finally froze the Java version.

What have you seen that has come along since the last say 3 Java updates in the last 6-9 months encoded on discs that is MORE important than simply playing the damn movie? I sure have not seen such a ground breaking feature, and even if one did come along, the older players likely would still have issues even IF they were still getting updates because of the hardware limitations.

Having to choose between playing the new release movies for many years or the speculation of some great new "feature" nobody has even thought of yet causing problems or requiring me to replace a otherwise working BD player, will have me taking the former over the later every day of the week. :hithere:

This is not about which format is better as this might have happened to some extent with HD DVD had it won too. It has to do with mfg obsoleting the players that still work because they cannot afford to provide updates for 10 years after a product comes out at the current prices they can charge.

You make a lot of good points, I never even thought about 10 years from now! Look at what just happened to HD-DVD, it went the way of the dodo bird!

If manufacturers stop making updates 10 years from now.... What a friggin nightmare!! :eek:

That is certainly true with my Sony players but only true about 92% of the time with my Samsung BD-P1200. If I recall correctly about 8% of the titles the last time I checked at AVSForums when someone was keeping a list wouldn't even load with that player, they would get stuck at the menu. I don't know how much was because of Java or how much was because of DRM changes or other causes but some significant portion was directly related to Java. Usually if the menu wouldn't load, the issue was attributed to BD-Java, either improper implementation or a new implementation.

I still haven't figured out the great things that are supposed to be possible with BD-Java but whatever it is can't be great enough to justify creating problems with loading movies. I hope it is figured out and fixed but if all you have is a PS3, you probably don't even know there is a problem. The PS3 can load the problematic discs quickly and painlessly, almost without exception.

Chris

I agree Chris. What good is a powerful interface if you cannot even load a movie with IS the primary purpose of these players.

I think one of the reasons the PS3 can load pretty much all discs is because it is a super computer and I bet it has multiple versions of Java programs stored to handle just about anything that it encountered including the multiple iterations/versions of Java used to encode these discs.

I agree the PS3 is basically a super computer in a game console/Blu-ray player shell, but even the original Sony Blu-ray stand alone player, the BDP-S1, can load almost everything. In my experience no Blu-ray disc has failed to load with the BDP-S1 but I do recall seeing mention of a couple that others had issue with. It loads the heavily Java laden discs very slowly to say the least but loads them.

The 8% figure I recall includes discs that loaded but played unacceptably and includes issues probably unrelated to Java. It is probably fair to share the blame between Samsung, Sun Microsystems, and disc authoring for the Java problems some of the Samsung players have. The Samsung players (BD-P1000 and BD-P1200) in my experience load the non-Java discs fine. If my Hyundai runs fine on Exxon gas but won't start with Texaco gas, even if my neighbor's Mercedes has no issues with either, probably doesn't mean my Hyundai is solely at fault. Something as basic as programming language used for menus and special features should be friendly and easy for manufacturers and developers.

I am not a savvy computer programming language guy and someone that is and understands what is going on with HDi and Java can surely offer a meaningful opinion. I have also noted rather frequent Java updates needed for my PC and some crashes and pages that fail to load with messages mentioning Java. I also understand that many of the features I like with my Windows based PC are possible as a result of Java. I don't recall and couldn't understand the specifics but I do know that recent Windows versions don't include Java, Microsoft no longer licenses Java for inclusion with Windows and there is a history of litigation between the companies as a result of Microsoft's non-compliance.

My initial feeling was that Java was the proper choice for Blu-ray but now I am not so sure and HDi might have been a better choice but I wouldn't place any importance on my non-technical understanding of what is possible with the two. It is a moot point now of course and I am confident the issues will be fixed. I am also confident that Oppo and Panasonic, the two companies making the players which are the topic of this thread can solve any Java related issues with their players by firmware update, as can Sony. After all, Panasonic and Sony probably had a lot to do with the choice of Java.

Chris

I thought Sony wanted HDi over Java, but I am sure one or more of the initial BDA members did want HDi.