3D Formats & FAQ's

Lee Stewart · 03-09-2010, 06:11 PM

ANAGLYPH 3D with glasses (top right corner)

COLORCODE 3D

COLORCODE 3D Glasses

STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Over/Under AKA Top/Bottom format) - A depiction - not actual

STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Side By Side format) - A depiction - not actual

STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Frame Sequential AKA Page Flip Format)

STEREOSCOPIC/DLP® 3-D HDTVTechnology (Checkerboard 3D Format)

http://dlp.com/downloads/DLP%203D%20...Technology.pdf

STEREOSCOPIC 3D Active Shutter Glasses

STEREOSCOPIC POLARIZATION FROM AN LCD (Xpol) (Line By Line AKA Hort. Interface 3D Format)

POLARIZED 3D GLASSES (FANCY)

Lee Stewart · 03-10-2010, 02:17 PM

HDMI LICENSING, LLC RELEASES HDMI SPECIFICATION VERSION 1.4A

Latest Version Specifies Mandatory 3D Formats For Broadcast Content

SUNNYVALE, Calif., March 4, 2010 – HDMI Licensing, LLC today announced the release of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, featuring key enhancements for 3D applications including the addition of mandatory 3D formats for broadcast content as well as the addition of the 3D format referred to as Top-and-Bottom. The complete HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, along with the Compliance Test Specification (CTS) Version 1.4a, is available to HDMI Adopters on the HDMI Adopter Extranet.

In addition, an extraction of the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a is available for public download at http://www.hdmi.org. The purpose of the extraction document is to provide public access to the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification for companies and organizations that are not HDMI Adopters but require access to this portion of the Specification.

The latest HDMI Specification adds key enhancements to support the market requirements for bringing broadcast 3D content into the home:

The addition of Top-and-Bottom to the Specification.
The addition of two mandatory formats for broadcast content:
- Side-by-Side Horizontal
- Top-and-Bottom

With the addition of these two mandatory formats, the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a provides a level of interoperability for devices designed to deliver 3D content over the HDMI connection. The mandatory 3D formats are:

Mandatory 3D Formats

For movie content:
- Frame Packing
  - 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz
For game content:
- Frame Packing
  - 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
For broadcast content:
- Side-by-Side Horizontal
  - 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
- Top-and-Bottom
  - 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
  - 1080p @ 23.97/24Hz

Implementing the mandatory formats of the HDMI Specification facilitates interoperability among devices, allowing devices to speak a common 3D language when transmitting and receiving 3D content. The mandatory requirements for devices implementing 3D formats are:

Displays – must support all mandatory formats.
Sources – must support at least one mandatory format.
Repeaters - must be able to pass through all mandatory formats.

HDMI Adopters will have 90 days from the publication of the HDM Specification Version 1.4a to build and sell products that are compliant with the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a as well as pass the CTS Version 1.4a. This also applies to legacy set-top boxes that may have upgraded to use Specification Version 1.4 signaling.

For more information about the HDMI specification please visit http://www.hdmi.org

Lee Stewart · 03-10-2010, 02:18 PM

Frame packing looks like this :

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/

There is a "master frame" that is 2205 x1920. Within that master frame are two 1920x1080 frames - one L and the other R. They are seperated from each other by 45 pixels of vertical active blanking which helps the electronics seperate the two frames.

When they say a 3D BD player will output frames at 24 FPS - that is 24 "master frames"/packed frames per second. It is up to the display to unpack them and show them in the Frame Sequential 3D format.

Additional info on the different 3D formats - you can see how each format gives something up with the exception of the Frame Sequential 3D format which is the only Full HD per eye 3D format:

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html

PFC5 · 03-10-2010, 08:02 PM

Are these glasses going to need power for the shutters Lee? If so, does that mean we will be wearing glasses that have a cable of some sort running to the display for syncing & power or are they going to be battery operated?

Thanks for all the info you are providing. I think you are the 3DTV guru here right now.

Lee Stewart · 03-10-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Are these glasses going to need power for the shutters Lee? If so, does that mean we will be wearing glasses that have a cable of some sort running to the display for syncing & power or are they going to be battery operated?

No cables.

Most will use a Lithum "Coin" battery (1) that looks like this:

Enercell® 3V/225mAh CR2032 Lithium Coin Cell Battery

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3882052

Here are the Panasonic 3D glasses - you can rotate the image to see the battery case:

http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/3d/360view/index.html

AFAIK, only Samsung is offerring a rechargeable model

Quote:

Thanks for all the info you are providing. I think you are the 3DTV guru here right now.

Thank you!

Now give me my damn 3D Forum!

oblioman · 03-10-2010, 08:26 PM

STOP the movie. Gotta replace me eyeglass battery. Oh crap,,,gotta pop the one out me motherboard to finish the movie.

PFC5 · 03-11-2010, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

No cables.

Most will use a Lithum "Coin" battery (1) that looks like this:

Enercell® 3V/225mAh CR2032 Lithium Coin Cell Battery

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3882052

Here are the Panasonic 3D glasses - you can rotate the image to see the battery case:

http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/3d/360view/index.html

AFAIK, only Samsung is offerring a rechargeable model

Thank you!

Now give me my damn 3D Forum!

Thanks for the links!

So the glasses receive an IR signal from the TV to sync up. I wonder how long it takes to re-sync if you turn away from the screen since IR is a line of sight tech. It should be blue tooth IMO. That would make more sense.

I think I will wait until at least the 2011 models before considering it so hopefully prices drop on everything especially the glasses. $900.00 extra just for the glasses so my whole family can watch a movie together is just plain NUTS!

Are these glasses proprietary for each TV mfg, or can you use the glasses from a 3rd party once they come with any 3DTV display?

Lee Stewart · 03-11-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Thanks for the links!

So the glasses receive an IR signal from the TV to sync up. I wonder how long it takes to re-sync if you turn away from the screen since IR is a line of sight tech. It should be blue tooth IMO. That would make more sense.

In some of the demos, people put ther finger in front of the IR sensor to block the signal, then removed it - they went back into sync almost immediately

Quote:

I think I will wait until at least the 2011 models before considering it so hopefully prices drop on everything especially the glasses. $900.00 extra just for the glasses so my whole family can watch a movie together is just plain NUTS!

That is a bit high.

Quote:

Are these glasses proprietary for each TV mfg, or can you use the glasses from a 3rd party once they come with any 3DTV display?

Yes - they are proprietary. There is a company called Bit Cauldron who is a 3rd party who will enter the marketplace this year who has a very promising tech. Their glasses alow more light to hit your eyes then the CEMs models.

oblioman · 03-11-2010, 09:12 AM

Do you mean that the glasses from a Sammy won't work with a Panny??? If that be the case - it needs to be fixed ASAP. Also,,,if me buys the "good" glasses, will they work in a theater?

Lee Stewart · 03-11-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

Do you mean that the glasses from a Sammy won't work with a Panny??? If that be the case - it needs to be fixed ASAP.

Correct. They (the CEMs) aren't going to fix it. It isn't easy to fix. Each has choosen a different method of having the glasses communicate with the emitter; IF, RF, BlueTooth, etc.

What you will probably have are brand compatible glasses from a 3rd party at a lower price and at a better performance. You measure the performance by the amount of light they let through to your eyes. The brightness of the display is substantially cut down by the glasses. As much as 85%

Quote:

Also,,,if me buys the "good" glasses, will they work in a theater?

3D Digital Cinemas work on different 3D presentation methods:

RealD = Circular Polarization
LieMAX 3D = Linear Polarization
Dolby 3D = Color difference
IMAX 3D = Linear Polarization and Active Shutter Glasses
XpanD = Active Shutter Glasses

And with the last 2, the frame rates won't sync up with the home version ASGs. There are home models and cinema models.

PFC5 · 03-11-2010, 01:40 PM

Thanks for all the great info Lee.

I cannot believe that you have to buy different glasses for different TV mfg, and maybe different models too. That is just buts so I hope 3rd party mfg take away this issue, and I would not consider buying in until that is possible and at substantially lower prices than they are selling for now.

Image as we replace our TVs in the house and eventually get 4+ 3DTVs from different mfg, and we need to buy glasses based on which TVs we buy.

So take my 6 member family @ $150.00 each = $900.00 x 4 differnt 3DTVs and the cost now would be $3,600.00 just for the damn glasses for them all. Are these mfg on crack or something?

No wonder WHY all the mfg are so hot on 3DTV. They will likely make 50x the profit on the glasses than they will on the 3DTVs.

: They should be giving the 3DTVs away for free since they are using the Gillette business model.

Lee Stewart · 03-11-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Thanks for all the great info Lee.

I cannot believe that you have to buy different glasses for different TV mfg, and maybe different models too. That is just buts so I hope 3rd party mfg take away this issue, and I would not consider buying in until that is possible and at substantially lower prices than they are selling for now.

Image as we replace our TVs in the house and eventually get 4+ 3DTVs from different mfg, and we need to buy glasses based on which TVs we buy.

So take my 6 member family @ $150.00 each = $900.00 x 4 differnt 3DTVs and the cost now would be $3,600.00 just for the damn glasses for them all. Are these mfg on crack or something?

No wonder WHY all the mfg are so hot on 3DTV. They will likely make 50x the profit on the glasses than they will on the 3DTVs.

: They should be giving the 3DTVs away for free since they are using the Gillette business model.

LOL!

Hmmmm . . . . . June 2006 . . .

If I want HDTV in all four rooms of my house and a BD player to go with each - that's $4000 just for the BD players!

It would be much cheaper if you just stayed with a single brand. Then you only have to buy 4,5 or 6 pairs. And if you stayed with Panasonic - you would only have to buy an extra 2 pair - one pair comes with each 3DTV. But if you went with Samsung - then you would have to buy 6 pair - none come with their 3DTV's.

I got it! Buy Sony 3DTV's - they include 2 pair with each 3DTV - then you have 2 pair extra!

**rbinck** · 03-11-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I got it! Buy Sony 3DTV's - they include 2 pair with each 3DTV - then you have 2 pair extra!

Only happen if Sony comes out with a plasma probably.

Lee Stewart · 03-11-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

Only happen if Sony comes out with a plasma probably.

Well THAT isn't going to happen.

So go the Panasonic route.

PFC5 · 03-11-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

Only happen if Sony comes out with a plasma probably.

You know me too well.

03-09-2010, 06:11 PM	#1
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	3D Formats & FAQ's ANAGLYPH 3D with glasses (top right corner) COLORCODE 3D COLORCODE 3D Glasses STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Over/Under AKA Top/Bottom format) - A depiction - not actual STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Side By Side format) - A depiction - not actual STEREOSCOPIC 3D (Frame Sequential AKA Page Flip Format) STEREOSCOPIC/DLP® 3-D HDTVTechnology (Checkerboard 3D Format) http://dlp.com/downloads/DLP%203D%20...Technology.pdf STEREOSCOPIC 3D Active Shutter Glasses STEREOSCOPIC POLARIZATION FROM AN LCD (Xpol) (Line By Line AKA Hort. Interface 3D Format) POLARIZED 3D GLASSES (FANCY) Last edited by Lee Stewart; 03-09-2010 at 10:54 PM.

03-10-2010, 02:17 PM	#2
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	HDMI LICENSING, LLC RELEASES HDMI SPECIFICATION VERSION 1.4A *Latest Version Specifies Mandatory 3D Formats For Broadcast Content* SUNNYVALE, Calif., March 4, 2010 – HDMI Licensing, LLC today announced the release of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, featuring key enhancements for 3D applications including the addition of mandatory 3D formats for broadcast content as well as the addition of the 3D format referred to as Top-and-Bottom. The complete HDMI Specification Version 1.4a, along with the Compliance Test Specification (CTS) Version 1.4a, is available to HDMI Adopters on the HDMI Adopter Extranet. In addition, an extraction of the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a is available for public download at http://www.hdmi.org. The purpose of the extraction document is to provide public access to the 3D portion of the HDMI Specification for companies and organizations that are not HDMI Adopters but require access to this portion of the Specification. The latest HDMI Specification adds key enhancements to support the market requirements for bringing broadcast 3D content into the home: The addition of Top-and-Bottom to the Specification. The addition of two mandatory formats for broadcast content: Side-by-Side Horizontal Top-and-Bottom With the addition of these two mandatory formats, the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a provides a level of interoperability for devices designed to deliver 3D content over the HDMI connection. The mandatory 3D formats are: Mandatory 3D Formats For movie content: Frame Packing 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz For game content: Frame Packing 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz For broadcast content: Side-by-Side Horizontal 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz Top-and-Bottom 720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz 1080p @ 23.97/24Hz Implementing the mandatory formats of the HDMI Specification facilitates interoperability among devices, allowing devices to speak a common 3D language when transmitting and receiving 3D content. The mandatory requirements for devices implementing 3D formats are: Displays – must support all mandatory formats. Sources – must support at least one mandatory format. Repeaters - must be able to pass through all mandatory formats. HDMI Adopters will have 90 days from the publication of the HDM Specification Version 1.4a to build and sell products that are compliant with the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a as well as pass the CTS Version 1.4a. This also applies to legacy set-top boxes that may have upgraded to use Specification Version 1.4 signaling. For more information about the HDMI specification please visit http://www.hdmi.org

03-10-2010, 08:02 PM	#4
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	Are these glasses going to need power for the shutters Lee? If so, does that mean we will be wearing glasses that have a cable of some sort running to the display for syncing & power or are they going to be battery operated? Thanks for all the info you are providing. I think you are the 3DTV guru here right now. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

03-11-2010, 01:40 PM	#11
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	Thanks for all the great info Lee. I cannot believe that you have to buy different glasses for different TV mfg, and maybe different models too. That is just buts so I hope 3rd party mfg take away this issue, and I would not consider buying in until that is possible and at substantially lower prices than they are selling for now. Image as we replace our TVs in the house and eventually get 4+ 3DTVs from different mfg, and we need to buy glasses based on which TVs we buy. So take my 6 member family @ $150.00 each = $900.00 x 4 differnt 3DTVs and the cost now would be $3,600.00 just for the damn glasses for them all. Are these mfg on crack or something? No wonder WHY all the mfg are so hot on 3DTV. They will likely make 50x the profit on the glasses than they will on the 3DTVs. : They should be giving the 3DTVs away for free since they are using the Gillette business model. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

Similar Threads to 3D Formats & FAQ's
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
3D Movies.... Love to watch, or just HYPE.	spyder_21	3D Movies, Content & Reviews	182	01-09-2012 03:43 AM
Question about this samsung 3d HDTV model number PN50C7000 50"	wkward83	Flat-Panel TVs	28	04-10-2010 11:08 PM
HD DVD is Also Incomplete Spec	kamspy	High Definition Media	99	02-06-2008 06:54 AM
Here it Comes . . .3D HD!	Lee Stewart	High Definition News & Informative Articles	7	02-20-2007 08:04 PM
Are Panasonic EDTV'S Good And Is EDTV HD?	rickbbb	Flat-Panel TVs	252	02-20-2006 09:03 PM
Hi Def DVD Specs?	laserboy	HD DVD Players and Discs	39	04-10-2005 04:05 PM

03-10-2010, 02:18 PM	#3
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	Frame packing looks like this : http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/ There is a "master frame" that is 2205 x1920. Within that master frame are two 1920x1080 frames - one L and the other R. They are seperated from each other by 45 pixels of vertical active blanking which helps the electronics seperate the two frames. When they say a 3D BD player will output frames at 24 FPS - that is 24 "master frames"/packed frames per second. It is up to the display to unpack them and show them in the Frame Sequential 3D format. Additional info on the different 3D formats - you can see how each format gives something up with the exception of the Frame Sequential 3D format which is the only Full HD per eye 3D format: http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html

03-10-2010, 08:26 PM	#6
oblioman Every day is Friday Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hooooterville Posts: 9,243	STOP the movie. Gotta replace me eyeglass battery. Oh crap,,,gotta pop the one out me motherboard to finish the movie.

03-11-2010, 09:12 AM	#9
oblioman Every day is Friday Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hooooterville Posts: 9,243	Do you mean that the glasses from a Sammy won't work with a Panny??? If that be the case - it needs to be fixed ASAP. Also,,,if me buys the "good" glasses, will they work in a theater?