High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource - View Single Post - Why the Toshiba HD DVD rocks-literally

HDMI Fantastic · 06-25-2006, 07:06 PM

In other threads, there have been some questions as to what makes some people think that the Toshiba HD DVD player's are so good with CD's. And other people (most in fact) are completely bypassing this important feature. I will expound to the best of my abilities:

There is a whole world of high end Audio Video that most people are unaware of. If they don't see it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Costco, it doesn't exist. And this applies to 95% of the web sites too. Abt, Vann's and OneCall sell products that BB does, with a smattering of mid-fi products, but not a lot. Next time your at the bookstore, pick up a copy of The Absoloute Sound, Stereophile, Sound & Vision,The Perfect Vision, and there is another really good one out of Canada that Barnes & Nobles carries called Inner Ear. And one of my favorites is Widescreen Review. They actually have a cruise every year where you can meet the major player's in the industry. Widescreen Review is one of the little guy's, with a small but loyal following. And smaller than that is The Audiophile Voice, a mostly black and white publication. My bad if I'm leaving your favorite publication out, there are a few more (from the UK too) you can peruse also. I know many of you here are familiar with these publications, and some of you are more well versed than I am in these subjects.

Many audiophiles listen to records, beleive it or not. Turntables aren't what they used to be. Now they are works of art-literally. These same audiophiles, when they listen to CD's, have CD player's that most of us have never even heard of. Names like Cary, Esoteric (the super high end division of Teac), Ayre, Cambridge (from England) and Marantz ,among other's. Marantz you say? Didn't they sell a bunch of cheap stuff back in the 70's and 80's? Well yes, they did. But now, they are high end. Although, they actually sell a $249 CD player that blow's the socks off anything you will find @BB, etc. And actually many of the manufacturer's sell "entry level" starting at $500-$1000 since that's where the bread and butter is. Next time your'e buying a component, you would do well to do a little searching beyond what the Circuit City's of the world have to offer.

One of the things that makes a CD player play well is the transport mechanism. Vibration is the #1 enemy of CD's (DVD's too). So when making these unit's that's the first thing they start with. Next is the chassis. Again, vibration issues. Those cheap super slim DVD player's you see at CC are actually just the opposite of what you really want! When everybody was complaining about the heft of the HD DVD player's, I actually got quite a chuckle out of that. Beleive me, that's a good thing!

Then comes the "innards", as I call them. The components inside the component. CD's use 16 bit technology. A good CD player will have a 24bit/96kHz DAC (digital to analog converter). A better CD player will have more than one. High end? How about a 24bit/192kHz DAC. Or better yet, how about several of them! But DAC's can't do it alone. One solution used in High End CD/DVD player's is the use of DSP's. Digital Signal Processor's-the mathematical manipulation of signals that are in digital form. DSP's are used for ambience enhacement, equalization, filtering, time alignment, and noise reduction of audio and video signals.

The more of, and the qulaity of, all these things (including the mechanicals like transport and chassis), the more expensive the unit get's. It's really quite simple when you look at the spec's as you move up the food chain.

In order to handle the Blue Laser, Toshiba had to make a rock solid transport. They did. They also had to make a hefty chassis. Sure, they could have made it half the size, but the end signal (audio and video) would have suffered for it. It has nothing to do with "Early stages of product". If everybody screams for them to make it smaller, they will-but the quality will suffer. The technology is not new (except for the blue laser). They could have easily made it smaller. And then, they decided to use high end DAC's. Seven of them as a matter of fact. Not complacent to stop there, they decided to use a first quality DSP.But not just one.Four 32 bit DSP's, in fact. And then all the other computer parts they put in there-just icing on the cake

In order to find all these things in a CD player you will need to spend-minimum-$2500. And you move up to the XA1 (with a superb double chassis) you are looking at $3500 to $6,000, depending on brand. At this point, if you were shopping for one, it would be a matter of which sounds better to your ear.3 grand, 6 grand, it's all in the ear of the beholder. Or you could just spend $499 or $799.

So when I see somebody "returning" the player or "waiting" because they want to wait for the format war to be further along or they want a better movie selection, or they want the price to come down on the player's, I just smile.Hey, to each his own. As far as I'm concerned, this thing is a Universal player!

Toshiba didn't have to go to this extent of build quality. Look at the Samsung (weaker chassis, off the shelf A/V chips,etc), and look at the Sony spec's-they aren't going to the same extent. Perhaps Pioneer and Panasonic will go a little better than Samsung, but I guarantee you they aren't going to go to the extent that Toshiba did. Toshiba knew that if they were going to win this war, they better go in with the biggest gun's they could muster. And they did. Sure, if you wait you might be able to buy a $200 HDDVD player before too long (or so everybody thinks), but it won't be the same caliber as the A1/XA1. And a "Universal" player is not going to be of the same quality.How could it possibly be? They are going to have to cheapen it down as much as possible, just to keep the price to a point that people will be willing to buy it. With the Toshiba's, the caliber of what you get for the money is mind boggling, and it most likely won't happen again. There has never been anything like it (price vs performance), in actual hardware available in the A/V world. Nothing subjective or abstract about it-it is what is is. You can see it, feel it, and taste it. A "Class A" CD player that er......oh yeah...also play's High Definition movies (the best you've ever seen-I almost forgot)

06-25-2006, 07:06 PM	#1
HDMI Fantastic HD since mid 04 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 326	Why the Toshiba HD DVD rocks-literally In other threads, there have been some questions as to what makes some people think that the Toshiba HD DVD player's are so good with CD's. And other people (most in fact) are completely bypassing this important feature. I will expound to the best of my abilities: There is a whole world of high end Audio Video that most people are unaware of. If they don't see it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Costco, it doesn't exist. And this applies to 95% of the web sites too. Abt, Vann's and OneCall sell products that BB does, with a smattering of mid-fi products, but not a lot. Next time your at the bookstore, pick up a copy of The Absoloute Sound, Stereophile, Sound & Vision,The Perfect Vision, and there is another really good one out of Canada that Barnes & Nobles carries called Inner Ear. And one of my favorites is Widescreen Review. They actually have a cruise every year where you can meet the major player's in the industry. Widescreen Review is one of the little guy's, with a small but loyal following. And smaller than that is The Audiophile Voice, a mostly black and white publication. My bad if I'm leaving your favorite publication out, there are a few more (from the UK too) you can peruse also. I know many of you here are familiar with these publications, and some of you are more well versed than I am in these subjects. Many audiophiles listen to records, beleive it or not. Turntables aren't what they used to be. Now they are works of art-literally. These same audiophiles, when they listen to CD's, have CD player's that most of us have never even heard of. Names like Cary, Esoteric (the super high end division of Teac), Ayre, Cambridge (from England) and Marantz ,among other's. Marantz you say? Didn't they sell a bunch of cheap stuff back in the 70's and 80's? Well yes, they did. But now, they are high end. Although, they actually sell a $249 CD player that blow's the socks off anything you will find @BB, etc. And actually many of the manufacturer's sell "entry level" starting at $500-$1000 since that's where the bread and butter is. Next time your'e buying a component, you would do well to do a little searching beyond what the Circuit City's of the world have to offer. One of the things that makes a CD player play well is the transport mechanism. Vibration is the #1 enemy of CD's (DVD's too). So when making these unit's that's the first thing they start with. Next is the chassis. Again, vibration issues. Those cheap super slim DVD player's you see at CC are actually just the opposite of what you really want! When everybody was complaining about the heft of the HD DVD player's, I actually got quite a chuckle out of that. Beleive me, that's a good thing! Then comes the "innards", as I call them. The components inside the component. CD's use 16 bit technology. A good CD player will have a 24bit/96kHz DAC (digital to analog converter). A better CD player will have more than one. High end? How about a 24bit/192kHz DAC. Or better yet, how about several of them! But DAC's can't do it alone. One solution used in High End CD/DVD player's is the use of DSP's. Digital Signal Processor's-the mathematical manipulation of signals that are in digital form. DSP's are used for ambience enhacement, equalization, filtering, time alignment, and noise reduction of audio and video signals. The more of, and the qulaity of, all these things (including the mechanicals like transport and chassis), the more expensive the unit get's. It's really quite simple when you look at the spec's as you move up the food chain. In order to handle the Blue Laser, Toshiba had to make a rock solid transport. They did. They also had to make a hefty chassis. Sure, they could have made it half the size, but the end signal (audio and video) would have suffered for it. It has nothing to do with "Early stages of product". If everybody screams for them to make it smaller, they will-but the quality will suffer. The technology is not new (except for the blue laser). They could have easily made it smaller. And then, they decided to use high end DAC's. Seven of them as a matter of fact. Not complacent to stop there, they decided to use a first quality DSP.But not just one.Four 32 bit DSP's, in fact. And then all the other computer parts they put in there-just icing on the cake In order to find all these things in a CD player you will need to spend-minimum-$2500. And you move up to the XA1 (with a superb double chassis) you are looking at $3500 to $6,000, depending on brand. At this point, if you were shopping for one, it would be a matter of which sounds better to your ear.3 grand, 6 grand, it's all in the ear of the beholder. Or you could just spend $499 or $799. So when I see somebody "returning" the player or "waiting" because they want to wait for the format war to be further along or they want a better movie selection, or they want the price to come down on the player's, I just smile.Hey, to each his own. As far as I'm concerned, this thing is a Universal player! Toshiba didn't have to go to this extent of build quality. Look at the Samsung (weaker chassis, off the shelf A/V chips,etc), and look at the Sony spec's-they aren't going to the same extent. Perhaps Pioneer and Panasonic will go a little better than Samsung, but I guarantee you they aren't going to go to the extent that Toshiba did. Toshiba knew that if they were going to win this war, they better go in with the biggest gun's they could muster. And they did. Sure, if you wait you might be able to buy a $200 HDDVD player before too long (or so everybody thinks), but it won't be the same caliber as the A1/XA1. And a "Universal" player is not going to be of the same quality.How could it possibly be? They are going to have to cheapen it down as much as possible, just to keep the price to a point that people will be willing to buy it. With the Toshiba's, the caliber of what you get for the money is mind boggling, and it most likely won't happen again. There has never been anything like it (price vs performance), in actual hardware available in the A/V world. Nothing subjective or abstract about it-it is what is is. You can see it, feel it, and taste it. A "Class A" CD player that er......oh yeah...also play's High Definition movies (the best you've ever seen-I almost forgot)